Skulk Alt-fire

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Comments

  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2009
    Rending... reminds me of the langolier's sawteeth.

    I'd like a short range spray spit pretty much similar to that ###### in the vent in aliens 3, that did spit in the convicts face who fell into the fan.
  • SteelSoldierSteelSoldier Join Date: 2008-08-06 Member: 64764Members
    How about an infectious bite that decreases the marine movement and makes him loose hit points in time, this bite could use energy in order to be used.
  • davidcavalcantedavidcavalcante Join Date: 2009-06-08 Member: 67754Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1721672:date=Aug 9 2009, 12:35 PM:name=SteelSoldier)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SteelSoldier @ Aug 9 2009, 12:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about an infectious bite that decreases the marine movement and makes him loose hit points in time, this bite could use energy in order to be used.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    NS2 is not RPG.

    <b>I think Skulks could have an ability like Blink, but it wouldn't leave the ground while using. Something to make them run VERY FAST and use A LOT OF ENERGY VERY QUICKLY.</b>

    Best ability for "hit 'n run" attacks. By the way, isn't the Skulk a "hit 'n run" class?

    An alien of that size and so weak should have an ability to flee after the attack.
  • SteelSoldierSteelSoldier Join Date: 2008-08-06 Member: 64764Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1721694:date=Aug 9 2009, 07:22 PM:name=davidcavalcante)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (davidcavalcante @ Aug 9 2009, 07:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 is not RPG.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I can´t see your point.
  • davidcavalcantedavidcavalcante Join Date: 2009-06-08 Member: 67754Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1721709:date=Aug 9 2009, 05:44 PM:name=SteelSoldier)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SteelSoldier @ Aug 9 2009, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721709"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can´t see your point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That thing you said about "biting and infecting the marine with some kind of poison" is more like an MMORPG or usual RPG game. From what I know, that is called "buffer" and is very used in RPG games.

    I think that Lerk's Spores is enough for that kind of weapon.
  • steppin'razorsteppin'razor Join Date: 2008-09-18 Member: 65033Members, Constellation
    I'm not saying the idea is good (I actually don't like it) but don't dismiss it just because the mechanic is usually associated with a different genre.
  • davidcavalcantedavidcavalcante Join Date: 2009-06-08 Member: 67754Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1721796:date=Aug 10 2009, 09:58 AM:name=steppin'razor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steppin'razor @ Aug 10 2009, 09:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not saying the idea is good (I actually don't like it) but don't dismiss it just because the mechanic is usually associated with a different genre.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Have you seen any kind of weapon like that in any other FPS game? I didn't.
    There's the flamethrower, which puts the enemy on flames and it burns until death. But a poison bite? Come on...
    As I said, the Lerk's Spores works very good for a purpose like that and is MUCH MORE PROPER for an FPS game.
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    edited August 2009
    I like <b>cxwf</b>'s idea as well as the fetch idea. I also like the op, but leap makes it redundant.

    Here's my idea cross posted from the official thread:

    Wow I think it's cool you guys are thinking of a grapple style attack. I think it would work well as long as it fostered a "back and forth" type combat between kharaa and rines. So the rines have options to counter, but misusing the counter would leave the marine more open. I've discussed this at length of the forums, but here's a quick summary.
    <!--quoteo(post=1694429:date=Nov 26 2008, 12:02 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Nov 26 2008, 12:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694429"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... It would be another weapon in the skulk's arsenal, not replacing the leap/bite mechanics.<ul><li> Secondary fire of bite and/or leap is a latch on attack.</li><li> Initial bite may or may not do reduced damage.</li><li> <b>No</b> knockdown/disable/slow/visual imparement.</li><li> Damage dealt around 15 per second. Enough to make it faster to bite opponent normally.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[*] Possible balancing features:<ul><li> Secondary knife fire insta-hits.</li><li> Welder knockback.</li><li> Allow skulks on side/front to be knocked off with quickstrike(weapon switch not needed)</li></ul>In order to prevent marine movement from being nerfed too much I have a couple of further[possible] limitations:<ul><li> Bite cooldown empties and freezes while in use(so must wait entire bite cooldown <b>after release</b> before biting)</li><li> Uses adren(like charge/blink)</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Benefits:
    <!--quoteo(post=1694437:date=Nov 26 2008, 02:42 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Nov 26 2008, 02:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694437"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><ul><li> Encourages marines to cover each other</li><li> New form of "baiting"(one hops on back to force knife, next skulk takes advantage)</li><li> Newbies can now "follow" a jumping marine(only in an ambush situation, and at the cost of being vulnerable and doing much less damage)</li><li> Biting and moving is still quicker so it doesn't remove the upper caps on skulk skill</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Lots of interesting ideas in <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=105516&hl=latch" target="_blank">this thread</a>.
  • NeoSniperNeoSniper Join Date: 2005-06-02 Member: 52976Members
    Might be interesting if fetch could actually disarm the marine, not just pick up the gun from the floor. Although that might easily end up being overpowered even for a lone skulk if not done carefully.
  • TriggermanTriggerman Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited August 2009
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Might be interesting if fetch could actually disarm the marine, not just pick up the gun from the floor. Although that might easily end up being overpowered even for a lone skulk if not done carefully.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Nah I say overpowered, Skulks which are essentially a free lifeform shouldn't be able to easily counter a heavy and expensive weapon.
    A more fun way to use Fetch would be to snatch one of their grenades and go KADOOM in their face, although that's hardly a serious suggestion >_>

    Fetch should probably be just the Skulks "Use" function when targeting dropped weapons, not a separate skill by itself. It's hard to think of any way that the Skulk should be able to use the ability to carry weapons; to offensive use against a Marine.
  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    I support the idea of keeping some semblance of parasite functionality in the game. Bite alt-fire seems a great place for it, if it is designed to give a combat advantage at a significant cost. The idea of having it weaken armour slightly is about right, but I think it could also provide a parasite on the HUD for the alien that applied it.
  • Sumo-SoldierSumo-Soldier Join Date: 2009-07-24 Member: 68249Members
    this whole skulk fetch thing i think is a pretty useless ability. wat possible reason wud an alien want with a marine weapon? if it wants to use as bait how about just camp the area where the weapon was dropped? This ability is pretty much wasted since it will only be effective when fetching advanced weapons since fetching a starting marine weapons is pretty much pointless as every1 gets it. So for the bulk of the playing time fetch will be useless until the marines start using hmgs or gls etc..which by then im pretty sure u wont be able to bait a heavy or a dude with a jetpack flying around since they will be too powerful with armour ups and damage ups for one skulk.
    So in the end the ability will be unused.
  • TriggermanTriggerman Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited August 2009
    @SumoSoldier: Well the teams are going to get larger next time around, so I think there's gonna be a bigger variety of low lifeforms since the battles are going to get much more intense (well should be since the maps are not going to be around the same size if not smaller than they were in NS1). That some will prefer to play the more bulky and stronger Skulk and save up for Fade a few rounds instead doesn't really seem that farfetched to me.

    But yes, it's useless for an ability when compared to Leap, Bite, Parasite and so on.
    It should ideally just be that the Skulks can hit the "E" button as in "Use", and carry it without sacrificing any ability-slots. That way, I don't really see the harm in letting them carrying the weapons, it only adds depth to the Kharaa gameplay to possibly set up traps.
    And you have a point, but it all depends on how much ammo the weapons in NS2 have. Maybe it's less since there'll be one or more commanders now so dropping ammo could be a part of their gameplay. And maybe it just doesn't matter, it's just a small implementation but gives depth as well as immersion to the game.
  • iPandaiPanda Join Date: 2009-08-10 Member: 68417Members
    Hey im not sure if this has already been suggested but how about the secondary bite function working in conjunction with leap?
    basically you charge the secondary function so when you leap at a marine if you make contact it shakes there screen or possibly knocks them down allowing you a quick period to attack and leap away maybe 1 1.5 second Startel effect just to knock off there aim. this stops marines being able to intercept ambushes as easily just by looking at possible ambush points.
    logically it would make sense a alien the size of a small horse jumping at you would atleast knock you about.
  • Sumo-SoldierSumo-Soldier Join Date: 2009-07-24 Member: 68249Members
    yes i agree with the fetch ability being used by pressing the 'e' button. id rather that than have an ability ill never use.
  • Dead-InsideDead-Inside Join Date: 2004-09-22 Member: 31862Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1721915:date=Aug 11 2009, 12:37 AM:name=iPanda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iPanda @ Aug 11 2009, 12:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721915"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey im not sure if this has already been suggested but how about the secondary bite function working in conjunction with leap?
    basically you charge the secondary function so when you leap at a marine if you make contact it shakes there screen or possibly knocks them down allowing you a quick period to attack and leap away maybe 1 1.5 second Startel effect just to knock off there aim. this stops marines being able to intercept ambushes as easily just by looking at possible ambush points.
    logically it would make sense a alien the size of a small horse jumping at you would atleast knock you about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not only would I go insane as a marine, I would be scary imbalanced as an alien.

    Do not want.
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising California Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    First, I like the fetch idea lol.

    Second, any move that take away the players control would be very frustrating. Ns1 had webs and onos stomp. One took 3 hives which was game over as it is and the stomp took 70(75?) res which took a lot to save up. Giving the basic unit a stun or ability that takes away control from another player would be a mistake and very frustrating to me.

    My idea:(sorry if it has been said) what about a chargable burst of speed that can be used with other movements? Helps you ambush or increase your leap speed. Though not an attack I think it would be useful.
  • WorthyRivalWorthyRival Black Armor Division Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58470Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I always loved the idea of the skulk being the ambush master so to hear that parasite is being tossed out does have me worried a little.

    Way back in 2006 I dropped a suggestion for a alternate Parasite ability called Paranoia.
    Basically you would tag a marine with paranoia and the tagged marine would start to hear alien sounds like skulk footsteps, chuckles or even the sound of being tagged again randomly from different directions.

    Killing the skulk that tagged you would remove the effect instantly or by visiting a armory.

    I always thought that this ability would build fear in marines who were tagged. Adding to the atmosphere of the game, While being a tactical ambush weapon for the aliens. It would goad marines tagged by paranoia into ambush situations trying to quickly remove the effects by killing the skulk.
  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
    Similar to Cxwf's idea, but it's actually a slightly modified idea I posted in a thread a while ago (modified to fit a 'bite' alt-fire).

    Pinning is out of the question, but I wouldn't completely be against the 'latching on' idea described earlier. If you could latch on as a Skulk, maybe reduce movement speed of the Marine, stop them from firing at all, but not deal significant damage, it could be an interesting mechanic. Very similar to how in Dawn of War II you can force ranged specialists into melee to nullify their effectiveness. But I'm not suggesting the Skulk should hold a Marine in melee until it dies, I like the idea of meleeing them off solo. You can improve the tradeoff by making it so the Skulk is left with no adrenaline for a quick escape or continued bites after being meleed off. So it's almost a kamikaze attack and definitely not overpowered in 1v1 situations.

    The reason I think this mechanic could work is because it makes the lone Marine far more vulnerable to a pair of Skulks. One goes in to very temporarily nullify him giving the other a short window of opportunity to inflict damage, during which the Marine cannot fire back. It doesn't put a 1v1 any more in the Marine's or the Skulk's favour. If the Skulk jumps the Marine, the Marine will simply melee off and shoot the Skulk while it has no adrenaline to fight back. But if used in co-operation with other Alien allies, it becomes a far more powerful ability. On the other hand if the Marine has backup the 2 Skulks are unaware of, they are at the disadvantage if using this. This stops it from being a spammable ability, you have to think about whether you're going to be effective before using it. It's also an ability that scales well as the Marines get more powerful weapons, because it's effectively temporarily nullifying a heavy weapon for s short period and drawing fire from other Marines. It also has skilful appllications such as sacrificing a Skulk life to allow another lifeform to make a successful escape.

    <i>Fleshing out the idea:</i>

    <b><!--coloro:LightGreen--><span style="color:LightGreen"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Gnaw<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>

    <b>Description:</b>
    Skulk players can charge up a 'Gnaw' attack by holding down the alt-fire button. As soon as the effect is fully charged up a low gnarling audio effect is heard until the alt-fire button is released (this means if you want to run around ready to Gnaw, you are projecting an audio cue). When the button is released, a 'bark/bite' sound effect is heard. The 'bark' indicates a missed hit; the 'bite' sound effect indicates a successful hit (so nearby Marines know to help their buddy out).

    When a Skulk alt-bites a Marine, he will automatically bite down on until A) he is punched off or B) he is shot off by a 2nd Marine. This will be shown as the Skulk biting into the Marine's shoulder/chest (stopping him from firing), with also a low gnarl/growl effect for the duration (preceded by a blood/goo splatter sprite to cover up the transition between animations). The Leap deals a small amount of initial damage and perhaps slight knockback, but after that there is miniscule damage over time. The Marine has the option of meleeing the Skulk off (this does minor damage to the Skulk, and leaves the Skulk with an empty adrenaline bar). The Leap is announced via a clearly audible, high priority sound effect.

    <b>Effects:</b>
    - Reduces target's movement speed
    - Disables target's ranged capabilities
    - Does small impact damage and very slowly drains the target's HP (1HP/s)

    <b>Rate of Fire:</b> Low (charge-up)
    <b>Range:</b> Low (melee range)
    <b>Damage:</b> Low (minor impact damage, DoT)
    <b>Speed:</b> High (quick release)
  • KwilKwil Join Date: 2003-07-06 Member: 17963Members
    So.. more skulks than marines in any encounter means skulks auto-win?

    Not sure I'm into that.
  • GraveGrave Join Date: 2007-12-28 Member: 63285Members
    ooh!ooh!
    --------more damage from skulk bite if you hit the marine in the back! (and head! please?)------------

    ambush is rewarded, lone marine without cover fire is punished!

    also provides incentive for marines to find tactical spots, like corners and walls to cover his advancing teammates, adding to more realistic squad movement dynamics!
    no more crawling onto a marines head while hes crouched in a corner, biting him once, having him whip his shotgun into your face and tear you open, then go about his business like you didnt sneak up onto him and bite his HEAD. T_T not bitter.

    and i guess i could just post it here too, basically everywhere i see pinning or grappling being discussed...
    ----------------------------------------------


    and grapple sounds kind of fun, but the more i think about it, the less interesting it sounds. the plus is that it discourages rambo marines, and it makes it easier for an alien to take out a single marine (hooray?) the downside is, it sounds SUUUUPER BORING. the fun of being an alien was that adrenaline pumping ambush moment where everyone is feaking out and you have seconds to spaz around and wildly tear into the marines with that satisfying visceral chomp they have in NS1. so, to jump in and grab on with a slow damage over time kill or immbolize sounds like exactly the opposite of this. you jump down and grab onto the marine! you sit there....doing nothing for few seconds while you wait for him to kindly die. the marine realizes hes been bit! he knows no ones around and he starts to contemplate the meaning of life, patiently waiting for the inevitable...

    really? this doesnt sound anything like the fast paced twitch action that was so characteristic of natural selection 1. i do like how it kind of forces teamwork, that was the best feature of it in L4D, but it doesnt sound like fun for ANYONE, so...bleh

    and to comment on the argument that it discourages rambo marines is the fact that you would still have to get close enough to bite the marine. waht made it (sometimes) effective to be rambo in NS1 was that a lone marine could often kill a skulk BEFORE engaged in melee range.
    secondly, when the skulk did get close enough to bite the marine, the marine would often be able to out maneuver the skulk (which was another problem in and of itself, though of course player skill is integral to that, it shouldnt be quite so easy to dodge an alien, as the design (as far as i can tell) was that marines have advantage at range, aliens have advantage when close up. these advantages balance each other by their very nature, and the marine shouldnt be better at getting out of melee range, as they have guns to keep them from ever having to be in melee range. i guess thats just a bunnyhopping issue, and hopefully that will change in NS2)
    ANYWAY
    the point was, ramboing worked becasue they could kill the skulk before he could get to them, so grappling wont change that, but it could make it easier because you only have to land one bite, but hopefully in NS2 it wont be so hard to land two bites.
    and grappling takes control away from both players, making it no fun for anyone while its going on.

    in conclusion, be creative and think of someting else, no L4D cloning.
    all the tackling and disabling dosnt seem to fit the gameplay theme they had goin on in NS1. again, the only good part is the forcing of teamwork, but it soudns like theyve got their own solution to that with marine squads.
  • Sumo-SoldierSumo-Soldier Join Date: 2009-07-24 Member: 68249Members
    maybe just keep it simple and have the alternative fire just a charge up BITE where once used causes the mouth to remain closed for maybe a second hindering the players vision. Obviously it would do more damage and takes about maybe 2 seconds to charge up.
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