Res collecting from dead marines
DasBrot
Join Date: 2008-07-20 Member: 64670Members
Join Date: 2008-07-20 Member: 64670Members
<div class="IPBDescription">idea that skulks can drag bodies to resource towers.</div>I posted this in the Skulk reveal thread, however, Since it's an significant idea/suggestion, I thought it would fit here more.
In the thread a many people mentioned grappling or dragging of marines. I'm not keen on the dragging of live marines, as this can be very annoying for a marine player.
but I can certainly imagine skulks dragging the dead bodies of marines about.
The idea is that bodies of dead marines could be collected for extra res when they are dragged to nearby resource towers.
To balance this out, The bodies can only be dragged slowly (but possibly faster if more skulks help), because of this slowdown the skulk player risks being an easy target for marines.
I for one would love doing this if I was playing as a skulk, and it also promotes teamwork with the skulks.
also as a marine, it would be very spooky seeing a group of skulks dragging a body around a corner or possible up inside a vent, lol.
This action will probably be seen most at the beginning of a match when the opposing teams are trying to collect as much res as possible to advance their team.
what are your thoughts on this?
In the thread a many people mentioned grappling or dragging of marines. I'm not keen on the dragging of live marines, as this can be very annoying for a marine player.
but I can certainly imagine skulks dragging the dead bodies of marines about.
The idea is that bodies of dead marines could be collected for extra res when they are dragged to nearby resource towers.
To balance this out, The bodies can only be dragged slowly (but possibly faster if more skulks help), because of this slowdown the skulk player risks being an easy target for marines.
I for one would love doing this if I was playing as a skulk, and it also promotes teamwork with the skulks.
also as a marine, it would be very spooky seeing a group of skulks dragging a body around a corner or possible up inside a vent, lol.
This action will probably be seen most at the beginning of a match when the opposing teams are trying to collect as much res as possible to advance their team.
what are your thoughts on this?
Comments
Bonus res to the aliens for marine failure! :)
This would of course then involve the use of Ragdolls in a non-collision manner or perhaps allow it to take the impact of bullets should a marine be pulling it through a vent (not much point being in a vent and dragging a body if you can still get shot THROUGH a dead body).
..oh.. and you would degrade gorges to a waste disposal class :p
..oh.. and you would degrade gorges to a waste disposal class :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah, not always. Corpses despawn after a short period so if you don't go and grab it within say 2-3 minutes (at most) then corpse disappears.
yes, marine bodies dissolve/decompose away after a short period.
but perhaps if the body is quickly grabbed before it disappears, it causes the body to stay visible until it is let go of again. then it will be in risk of dissolving as usual. unless of course it's dropped near a res tower, in which case the res tower would quickly absorb it.
to make it fair for the marines you gotta create a counterpart ability....
JANITOR-ARMOR ....equipped with this the marine is able to transform into a mini-lorry with crane, to remove dead aliens from the corridors and bring them to the next resource tower to give the marine commander his extra res
or a lerk, since they are able to things quickly
perhaps say, they can only absorb only 2 at a time, and it takes 1 or 2 minutes to absorb each body.
So, if too many bodies are present, they just disappear as usual. the animation/effect will differ so that people can clearly see the difference.
this will significantly reduce the amount of time taken by players collecting bodies.
on the subject of balance,
I don't think it will be much of a problem. The skulk has a speed advantage, but if it's slowly dragging a body down a corridor it risks being an easy kill for marines.
Also the sound/sight of a dragging body would alert marines to its position. and if the skulk is dragging a body, it's taking up time that could be used for killing.
- discourages newbies. Newbie vs experienced player: experienced one probably wins. Next time around it's experience+equipment vs newbie.
- unarmed marines are yelled at for NOT camping in their base
- punishes teams for having even small number of bad players. Outcome may be determined by who can prey on bad players better.
- encourages camping. Kill enemies as close as possible to your turrets, drag them to res tower.
- discourages newbies. Newbie vs experienced player: experienced one probably wins. Next time around it's experience+equipment vs newbie.
- unarmed marines are yelled at for NOT camping in their base
- punishes teams for having even small number of bad players. Outcome may be determined by who can prey on bad players better.
- encourages camping. Kill enemies as close as possible to your turrets, drag them to res tower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you have some valid points,
I can possibly see it encouraging camping on the alien side, but I really can't see this being much of a problem if significant restrictions of the amount of bodies that can be collected is implemented.
also marines will learn to look out for skulks hanging around res towers and other certain areas.
you wont stop players from camping for whatever reason, like ambushes, etc. it's something that happens all the time.
it's not unfair if the resources are spread throughout the whole team. perhaps the dead bodies simply slightly increase the speed in which the tower collects resources. (speeding up the res tower animation could signify this)
basically, I just liked the idea of having skulks drag marine bodies around. and was thinking of how it could be implement it into the game.
it's nice to give players extra goals. rather than just kill all the time.
perhaps instead of resources, the dead bodies can be used to aid in the spread of Dynamic Infestation.
what do you think?
I can possibly see it encouraging camping on the alien side, but I really can't see this being much of a problem if significant restrictions of the amount of bodies that can be collected is implemented.
also marines will learn to look out for skulks hanging around res towers and other certain areas.
you wont stop players from camping for whatever reason, like ambushes, etc. it's something that happens all the time.
it's not unfair if the resources are spread throughout the whole team. perhaps the dead bodies simply slightly increase the speed in which the tower collects resources. (speeding up the res tower animation could signify this)
basically, I just liked the idea of having skulks drag marine bodies around. and was thinking of how it could be implement it into the game.
it's nice to give players extra goals. rather than just kill all the time.
perhaps instead of resources, the dead bodies can be used to aid in the spread of Dynamic Infestation.
what do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difficulty comes from when you give one team benefits from killing a marine other than the simple absence of that marine from the area. As soon as you do that, the negative effects Borsuk was talking about come into play. Because NS is a team game, doing things that benefit the other team will get you hammered by people who are playing competitively.
If you want to make a dragging mechanic avoid the problems Borsuk suggested, then the way to do it is to figure out a method whereby your corpse has a negative effect on the other team until it's removed. This would encourage both teams to move forward as "Just getting there" is of benefit to the team, whether you live or die. In this vein, perhaps what can be considered is that the presence of marines, live or dead, hampers the spread of infestation. Aliens would then need to drag the corpse away from where they want the infestation to spread -- either further into marine territory, or into already grown infestation (which it doesn't hurt), until the body decomposes naturally in a minute or so.
..oh.. and you would degrade gorges to a waste disposal class :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually no, the bodies would still work on a timer that if noone was looking at it for x amount of time the it disappears, however if an alien finds a fresh body, then they could drag it.
I'm sorry, I beg to differ, the main incentive of this "chore" as you call it REALLY isn't just to get resource points, but add motivation for untrained marines to stray from the group to prevent aliens desecrating their friend's body. Although some will ignore this chore, it just serves as another part of the gameplay flow that separates the pros from the noobs.
to make it fair for the marines you gotta create a counterpart ability....
JANITOR-ARMOR ....equipped with this the marine is able to transform into a mini-lorry with crane, to remove dead aliens from the corridors and bring them to the next resource tower to give the marine commander his extra res<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is obviously a bad example of a marine counterpart this gameplay function.
If the marines WERE to have a gameplay counterpart, a marine could just sling the dead marine corpse over his shoulder and become slower as he transports the corpse to a furnace to turn the body into some sort of resource.
If the marines WERE to have a gameplay counterpart, a marine could just sling the dead marine corpse over his shoulder and become slower as he transports the corpse to a furnace to turn the body into some sort of resource.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and this was sarcasm... i wouldnt really suggest a optimus-"garbage-truck"-prime transforming heavy armor variant if it wasnt for some lulz...
I say it because of a particular comment from Charlie that was done years ago now I finally spent like 20 minutes advanced searching for it and I think I found it. So from the man himself...
<!--quoteo(post=1395386:date=Feb 25 2005, 05:05 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Feb 25 2005, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1395386"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ragdolls in Source sound great to me, as long as we didn't add a weapon that allowed you to fling the bodies around make piles out of them. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was said in good humor but I think the point is clear. And it's not the only example, if you search a bit you will find other post where Charlie states he doesn't want that kind of gore in his games.
Not that I don't like your ideas just letting you know. I'd love to have a mechanic where players can actively do tasks that bring in extra res besides killing enemies and enemy buildings. Play around with the idea with what you know now.
I don't know whether the RFK should be aquired from the corpse or the actual frag. On the other hand the frag RFK is really challenging, but then again the corpse RFK would allow more control and probably more strategies due to it.
I thought this was obvious, but let me explain.
2-3 skulks battle marines and win, they decide to take the bodies to the res points ( the long drag ).
Marines act on this realizing that (depending on server size) a portion of the attacking force is now engaged in slowly dragging bodies.
Acting on this, they push hard taking resource nodes (which give ALOT more resources than bodies) and gaining map control while the little old skulk is dragging away.
I thought it was obvious?
risk vs reward. If you use offensive classes to drag for a LITTLE extra res, you open the door for the marines to push against a weaker force gaining more map control/res points. Hence, balanced. Noobs would affect both sides, but you can't base a game off of what noobs do and don't do. Noob skulks dragging bodies the wrong way to the node taking 5 mins with marines assaulting the hive, gg. Marines charging off solo and being zerged down, gg. Both sides would be hit just as hard by noobs.
To add even more balance, when a skulk is dragging, it pings its location on the commanders overview giving him the option to send marines there to intercept, or better yet, get more nodes forgetting the noob skulk and his pittance worth of res. God forbid adding another role to the hack and slash which is skulk. Marines can repair/build, give the skulks something else also.
As I said, I thought it was obvious.
i love the idea of aliens being able to drag corpses but i dont believe it should be skulks as there Stealth and ambush role doesnt go to well with space janitor. but purhaps the gorge could do the job, also with the gorge having the capability to build a harvesting tower simular to a RT and such could be a suggestion so the Long hikes to resorce towers arent to dangerous.
purhaps a cap to the corpses along with a time limit to stop it looking like a marine buffet table could be a good idea
It should be a uniquely alien ability. Again as I said in my previous post, if it is a gorge, hes not building, capping nodes etc. So to spend time dragging a body (which everyone's agreed should be slow), there team is suffering the loss of a builder. The balance is simply, the loss of a specialist class doing its role, or a quick meager gain in res.
At the start the team suffers due to
a) builders building and half the skulks going gorges to drag. That gimps the team due to no offensive force.
b) near the end of the game, people stacking on gorge vs using upgraded roles to beat the team.
TBH, If this ability was available, I would never use it due to its negatives by far out weighing its benefits. That being said, still a good idea which should be built into the game, would be fun coming across a skulk/gorge dragging a corpse making a scraping noise pining its location over mini map.
So far all I see is it is a distraction, a mini-game. It does not make sense, it's not easy to implement and it's just silly to suggest. "Res 4 kills" makes so much more sense as it requires you to just play the game, this requires you to be a little squirrel trying to find an acorn and put him away for storage.
bad idea.
We want to remove mundane tasks.