1.03 Instant No Hive Kill Has To Go

Texas_Ranger · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">or how it ruins the game</div> Ok, I completely understand the need to have the aliens eventually die off after the last hive is destroyed. Once there was a game where this idiot, Major Tom, hide in the ducts for literally 45 mins after the last hive was destroyed... That is just stupid. But twice today the aliens were a hair from coming back when instant kill (ok its like 30 -60 secs) ruined any chance of coming back and IMHO really destroys and destracts from the game play. First case in point, Game was a see-saw of balance as usual, I had just gotten into a hive we originally had lost, killed the tf, and evolved into gorge. As I was waiting for resources to get up for a hive, we lost our first hive, I needed 11 rp more (moving at roughly 5 per tick) to start a new hive. So literally lost the game by seconds... Ok maybe we didn't stand a chance in hell, but maybe we would have come back and it could have been the greatest game ever, you just don't know.
Second case in point, I was playing about a 3 hour game where the aliens lost the first hive about 1 1/2 hours into it... It was a total war, really a great game. At one point it looked like the aliens were gonna win, then the marines came back and took out one of our 2 hives... It started going down hill. Thanks to the sheer stupidity of half our gorges on the team, I was amazed we had made it that far, really... Our second and last hive fell shortly after, while it was going down though, the entire team (except me) had attacked and taken back cargo bay hive... and were waiting for resources to build, I don't know how close they were to building but about 2 mins before one gorge had 50 rp saved up to build it, so I am guessing real real close. And of course they died before they could build it.

Although I understand that limiting the time after the last hive goes down is necessary to prevent idiots from spoiling the game, limiting it to such a short time span is ruining some great games, that could have been so much better... Let us say we just have a 5 min time limit after the last hive goes down to get another one up, or maybe even 2 mins. But for christ sakes give the aliens a chance to rebuild, even if it is hopeless... It is always fun as an alien or marine to find out that you have been waiting dead for 2 mins and all of a sudden your respawning, the team is regrouping and rebuilding a new base and you still might have a shot.

IMHO this new feature has ruined two Excellent games that could have gone on to be record breaking etc...

Texas Ranger
Stop the Madness!
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

Unknown · November 2002

ever stopped for ONE SECOND, and thought that perhaps this new 'ability' gives marines the chance to 'rush' the aliens, whom do it every single round?

ZeroByte · November 2002

Yeah, I was thinking bout that too. Maybe there could be a way to code it so that the server predicts whether the last alien has a chance to make a comeback. For example, there could be a res tower that the marines have yet to kill and if the server calculates that the res tower could supply the remaining alien with enough res to build a hive or if the res alien has enough res to make a hive, the server doesn't immediately start removing health. However once the res tower gets killed or the remaining alien doesn't have enough, it does the health removal thing.

Doj · November 2002

Its not balanced as long as it doesnt happen to marines when they lose their I portals. sure, youd have to allow a 1 minute immunity at start to protect them from instant death (no I portals at start) but its the only way its balanced.

ZeroByte: Even if they have only one Res chamber they can ALWAYS come back. the algorithms not needed, its a simple IF/THEN statment

IF resources = <79 AND Resource chamber = 0 THEN -10health p second

and have i played you before? **obscenity** marine, easy to skulk? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Mercior · November 2002

If the marines have got the aliens down to 0 hives, then providing they're an intelligent team they will have guarded all the other hives anyway! The hive kill is just a nice way of finishing off the game more quickly.

Tydus · November 2002

i think the 5 man autowin thing is uber ghey becoz this is my experience:

we are marines we took 2 hives adn upgraded everything, aliens only have skulks left.
but all of a suden : lagg spike and 5 or so ppl on our team lagged out taddah! guess what? the aliens with their hive dying under 5 or 6 siege cannons just automatically won!!<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> that is ghey isnt it?> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

Dr_Zaius · November 2002

I agree with you Ranger, I was the last one left and all three of my hives were destroyed, but i managed to morph into a gorge and build back a hive, luckly it wasnt defended by the marines.

After I got the hive up, my teammates spawned back in and we sulked them to death.

You'd be suprised how easy it is to take out HA w/ HMG with 3 cordinated sulks.

Anyways, I just think that the killing of the aliens slowly after all three hives are destroyed is pointless, I know that there are Llamas out there that abuse this but there are many more that use it to win a game.

Unknown · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dr. Zaius @ Nov 30 2002, 08:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I agree with you Ranger, I was the last one left and all three of my hives were destroyed, but i managed to morph into a gorge and build back a hive, luckly it wasnt defended by the marines.

After I got the hive up, my teammates spawned back in and we sulked them to death.

You'd be suprised how easy it is to take out HA w/ HMG with 3 cordinated sulks.

Anyways, I just think that the killing of the aliens slowly after all three hives are destroyed is pointless, I know that there are Llamas out there that abuse this but there are many more that use it to win a game.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
a 'noob' ha/hmg methinks <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

Gahordek · November 2002

What if everyone who's a gorge when the hive goes down was exempt from the hiveless death? It's not like a gorge can fly up into the vents and hide for an hour (but there'd have to be something preventing people from just running into a vent / evolving into gorge when their hive goes down).

Speed_2_Dave · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gahordek @ Nov 30 2002, 09:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What if everyone who's a gorge when the hive goes down was exempt from the hiveless death? It's not like a gorge can fly up into the vents and hide for an hour (but there'd have to be something preventing people from just running into a vent / evolving into gorge when their hive goes down).</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Um, stuff preventing people from doing certain things would prove difficult.. The space requirement for a gorge would perhaps prevent this from occurring, but any jetpacking marine, and any uncloaked skulk should become an obvious recipe for sauteed alien. And if Aliens move, and the marines can't see them, then they deserve to sit and think about why they can't win <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Slycaster · November 2002

If there is a hive even BUILDING guys, the countdown stops, so if your gorges on your team can't manage a hive in that amount of time... well, they deserve to lose. No half-decent marine team will leave a hive undefended, and/or unchecked.

that_swanky_kid · November 2002

My only beef with this is that marines can hide in vents just as well as lerks can fly up to a nook and stay there. I think this is a job for adminmod and not the game itself. It's redundantly handled on larger servers by readyrooming out anyway.

Jasper · November 2002

I think its good

imperio59 · November 2002

Ok here's the perfect system:
3rd hive dies... All the skulks have 2 minutes before slow death starts. Gorges are NOT killed... You cannot evolve into a gorge if you are not one when the 3rd hive dies. After 5 minutes, Gorges get slow death on them. As for marines, No command chair, no unbuilt other command chair, 3 minutes then start slow marine kill... No spawn portals but comamnd chair or unbuilt command chair, they keep on fighting... Wadda ya think?

HoMIciDaL_PuPPy · November 2002

i just say and overall 3 minute counter for aliens with no hive and marines with no cc + infantry portals

Sparrow · November 2002

Aliens can come back from no hives.

I just played a game where we (or I) rushed the hive which was at Eclipse, and Sieged it. It took a bit longer than it should have (n00b commander), but we still had it done. We also went around knifing all their resource pods and being a real pain.

Yet somehow within 2-3 minutes they were able to build 2 other hives. Uhh.. well they eventually won that round.

Ahnteis · November 2002

All that's needed is a vote by the "losing" team.

Talesin · November 2002

Under v1.03? That's less likely. Unless you were playing on a v1.02 server at the time... that's quite possible.

I've done it twice, myself, and had loads of fun laughing at the Marines who LOST, when they'd managed to kill all the Hives but didn't bother Sensor Sweeping to just kill the last few Kharaa. Of which I was one. A Gorge, hiding in a vent, next to a Hive they'd forgotten to check the defenses on... which a Skulk had taken down before they managed to kill our last Hive.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <<<b>CHOMPEH!!</b>>> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

chubbysteve · November 2002

Just for the numbers I'd like to say I'm against the auto kill. And the countdown is just insulting because it's so short.

GhostBomber · November 2002

I've posted on this before. It definetely needs a good countdown first. Just watch-within a week, marine rushes will become the norm, and skulks will no longer go out to rush the marine base, but stay home. I was in a game where after the first skulk rush failed, a lack of defense around the CC let us hit it on the follow-up. It was demolished, but apparantly the marines had enough time to turn around and kill our hive.

Oh, and Cyanide, perhaps you don't realize how quickly aliens are killed. In the above instance, it took not 10 seconds for EVERY skulk to die.

MrBatman · November 2002

I've seen aliens come back from having no hives several times in 1.02. Especially at the beginning of the game. Shocked the hell out of the marines to wonder why the game wasn't over, where was the last hiding alien, then suddenly fades are knocking at their door.

An automatic vote by the losing team would be a better idea. People get **obscenity** when they can't play anymore because one jerk is playing cat and mouse in the vents.

Barbarian · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (imperio59 @ Nov 30 2002, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ok here's the perfect system:
3rd hive dies... All the skulks have 2 minutes before slow death starts. Gorges are NOT killed... You cannot evolve into a gorge if you are not one when the 3rd hive dies. After 5 minutes, Gorges get slow death on them. As for marines, No command chair, no unbuilt other command chair, 3 minutes then start slow marine kill... No spawn portals but comamnd chair or unbuilt command chair, they keep on fighting... Wadda ya think?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
What if you've got 100 res points? hmm? Then you can evolve to gorge and build a hive, but not under your system.

Ravlen · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (imperio59 @ Nov 30 2002, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ok here's the perfect system:
3rd hive dies... All the skulks have 2 minutes before slow death starts. Gorges are NOT killed... You cannot evolve into a gorge if you are not one when the 3rd hive dies. After 5 minutes, Gorges get slow death on them. As for marines, No command chair, no unbuilt other command chair, 3 minutes then start slow marine kill... No spawn portals but comamnd chair or unbuilt command chair, they keep on fighting... Wadda ya think?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I saw a post here a while back where a team had lost most of their main base, but had managed to load up on ammo and assault a hive without dieing, and won the game.

Ravlen

xioutlawix · November 2002

I personally am glad the no hives = death maneuver was instituted. I've sat through enough games with llamas hiding in vents and delaying the game by 45 minutes.

I doin't care how many games "could have been" great comebacks for the alien team. You lost all your hives, you deserve to die.

People complain about this feature as if its some huge upset. The interesting thing however, is that if this was the way it was when the game firest premiered to the public, or how it was all through playtesting, people probably wouldn't have minded it at all. Its just the whole fact that people are so resilient to change they find it utterly unnerving.

I personally would rather have to suffer through no amazing comebacks then to have to deal with another llama in a vent. Just because you want the opportunity to make some one in a million comeback, doesn't mean the rest of the community should have to suffer, that's simply being selfish.

Inexorable · November 2002

As Cyanide put it earlier, there are no amazing comebacks. There are games in which the marines get stupid and lazy. If you bring down that last hive and know that the aliens aren't respawning, there is no reason they should be able to come back from that. All the hive locations should be manned and immediately locked down, <i>game over</i>. If the aliens attempt to rebuild, they'll be toasted by the marines standing guard, if not, it's the perfect reason for the timer.

MasterEvilAce · November 2002

I'd like to say that I was on the alien team, and we were getted POUNDED. We were practically losing our second hive, while small groups of marines were pounding our first hive... Me and another skulk were near the marine base.. so we figured.. Eh?

Oddly, the marines had NO <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> turrets.. Crazy.. So we went directly for the commander's chair, and we took it down. The marines were still pounding us, though, of course the server crashed (Nooo)... we could have practically won if we were to take out the portals(we died after killing CC), but with our hives under attack like that, we wanted to defend.. yeah, they would have won, but if the no-cc kill were there, we would have won.

Inexorable · November 2002

No CC is a little different than no hives. All the CC does is let you build things, it's like saying the aliens lose if there are ever no Gorges on their team. For the Marines, it would have to be both no CC <i>and</i> no Infantry Portals. Even then, how many games have you played where a marine managed to hide for 45 minutes after all his buildings were gone?

Texas_Ranger · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Just because you want the opportunity to make some one in a million comeback</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
1 in million, no sorry try 1 in 5 games I have played that aliens <b>did</b> have a chance to come back. That one time was spectacular, of course since 1.03 it is next to impossible now... I am not proposing to eliminate the timer, I am proposing to <b>Lengthen</b> it. When you have a team, as we did last night, where 6 or 7 skulks coordinated an attack on cargo bay, removed the marines defenses and were literally seconds away from making a comeback, <b>It affects the gameplay of the game</b>
Once , on 1.02, we did make a comeback and we did win. IMO this makes for great games, when it forces your team to work as a team to hold on to that last ditch effort. There are many, many games where the aliens don't have a chance, but there are that few where they do... By extending the time perhaps to 2-5 mins longer this would re-open the opportunity for some really great games to happen. And playing the game, losing in 2 minutes to a rush is not really a good game.
If the marines are unable to defend the hives that were taken, then the Aliens should be given an opportunity, albiet a slim one, to make a coordinated attack and rebuild.
Even with the timer lengthened then most games would still end the same way, but that once in about every 5 times that you actually had a chance to comeback and win, that possibility would be there. Perhaps just lengthing the time would cause the marines to not be so hasty in throwing down a few turrets at a hive and really try and secure it, maybe that could make a difference in the game.
Also since 1.03 there is the option if you don't think you have a chance in hell for your team coming back, then 5 players can just f4 back to the lobby automatically ending the game, no matter what.
Texas Ranger
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

flippo · November 2002

If you're a gorge, build a Defense Chamber before you build the hive and that will keep you alive.

I really hate this new feature. I liked hunting down the last skulks/lerks. There is nowhere to hide, give me a jetpack and I guarentee I will find you.

Hang_Loose · November 2002

Should just be a losing team's vote to end the match, either side. Majority wins, game is over.

The 5+ man advantage ending the game is suitable because you really can't switch sides to even the teams anymore.

Texas_Ranger · November 2002

Ok so there are a few posts out there about the same subject

The links are listed here for your perusal. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=14790' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=14790</a>

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=14775' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=14775</a>

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=14377' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=1&t=14377</a>

And on a side note, I have played probably more then 40- 50 games as alien and roughly 80 games as a marine (yes I play a lot). In all those games only once did some llama ruin the game by hiding in the vents for 45 minutes after the game was over, just once. As with playing the aliens I would have to say out of the 50 or so times I have played with them, there were at least 5 times where we could have made a comeback with no hives, 2 times we were autokilled seconds before the hive went up, once we did actually make a comeback and win, and the other two times the marines found our hive and beat us up fast.
Texas Ranger

1.03 Instant No Hive Kill Has To Go

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