Marines need a Batman style launchable grappling hook!
FocusedWolf
Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Good for when you gotta cross those rivers of lava, or get into vents.</div><!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Problem<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> : Standard (pre-jetpack or heavy) marines need a way to get into vents and on top of high structures. Without this ability, NS2 maps will be very linear, flat, single floored and for the most part vent-less, and obstacle-less CO maps.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Solution<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> : A launchable grappling hook fired from the end of a rifle (hmg or lmg, etc)
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->How it will work<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> : The marine sticks the grapple thing on to the end of their weapon, they clip a carabiner to their belt, or heavy armor lift point, and then they shoot. When the grapple thing is fired, The grapple thing "turns on" and its internal wifi bluetooth thing syncs up with the marines in-game hud. The result is you can see on your screen the following vista-sidebar-style-ingame-ns2-gadget with the following buttons ("Release", "UP", "DOWN") to control the grapple things electric motor.
Yes, once the grapple thing is fired, you may use your weapon as usual to shoot things... even while being suspended from the super thin super strong string holding you up.
And yes, their can be times when you need to use this tool to lower you down safely from high areas... and for extra fun, their will be times when you need to shoot your grapple thing to a far away point on a 45 degree angle in order to swing over a massive lava river as found in most NS1 maps :P
(didn't halflife 1 have a barnacle thing that did what i'm describing... i remember using them in sven coop to repel down elevator shafts lol)
The affect on plain NS2 maps... we could use this to get into vents... gorges do this now in some servers... remember the gorge rope/hook script thing.
This can also offer a tactical advantage during an ambush... were either your team is rappelling into enemy territory from a big vent or your in a big room defending a corner and to help shoot over your teammate's collective heads, you ascend to the roof of the room... At least thats just some of the ways i'd use it.
Remember, NS marines are ninjas... we need ninja tools :D
Perhaps a method for firing off multiple pitons is needed... for example your trying to traverse a very large room, so you fire 1 and raise to the cieling... then you fire another piton... now 2 of the sidebar-gadgets appear stacked on the side of the screen... you hold down the "UP" button on the second piton and now your suspended from 2 of them... then you release your first which swings you out to below the second... eventually you reach steady state... i.e. not swinging about under the current piton... As you can imagine, in those big "JetPack" rooms like in supersiege 007 you can literally swing from one side of the room to the other by walking off the edge, for a quick escape of whatnot... this can be great fun :P
I just realized we might need a tactical-decent mode... i.e. it lowers you with great speed and auto disconnects you a safe height over the floor below for a small fall. The reason being you don't want to have to mess with the controls when the fighting is going on. You want quick entry into the situation. What can be more quicker then shooting out a piton, clicking the tactical-mode-button, and walking off an edge with hmg at the ready. I remember that this can be seen in the movie Minority Report when the "Police" come down from that spaceship thing they had.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->-----------------<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Real life Examples<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> : (although it looks like these grapples are to be used for pulling tripwires from a safe distance to set off the enemy explosives, but really cool nonetheless lol)
<a href="http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=748_1179682979" target="_blank">http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=748_1179682979</a> fired from a m4
<a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-34-2/appc.htm#pgfId-1026786" target="_blank">http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...m#pgfId-1026786</a>
"Weapon-launched. A 150-meter lightweight rope is attached to a lightweight grapnel that is designed to be fired from an M16A1 or M16A2 rifle using an M855 cartridge. The grapnel is pushed onto the rifle muzzle with the opening of the retrieval-rope bag oriented toward the minefield. The firer is located 25 meters from the minefield's leading edge and aims the rifle muzzle at a 30- to 40-degree angle for maximum range. Once fired, the grapnel travels 75 to 100 meters from the firer's position. After the weapon-launched grapnel hook (WLGH) has been fired, the firer secures the rope, moves 60 meters from the minefield, moves into a prone position, and begins to grapple. The WLGH can be used only once to clear a minefield, but it can be reused up to 20 times for training because blanks are used to fire it.
C-58. Multiple grapplers can clear a lane of trip wires quickly and thoroughly, but they must time their efforts and follow procedures simultaneously. A hit on a trip wire or a pressure fuse can destroy the hook and the cord, so engineers should carry extras."
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGvibmr2CIU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGvibmr2CIU</a> The motorized ascender which we need in a green futuristic miniaturized form (yes unless you just noticed it now, mostly everything the marines in NS1 have is colored in some shade of green... from the weapons to the equipment to the armor)
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMON_breach_grenade" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMON_breach_grenade</a> (Click the picture on the right to see a bigger view) Ok this thing is just weird but it does show that their's no need to chamber a blank bullet if the thing being launched has a "bullet trap"... still looks weird lol.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->-----------------<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Alien Only Vents<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I keep on seeing people bringing up this discussion about how vents are for aliens only. Obviously this is not true because once marines have jetpacks, then they can travel in all areas of the map, throughout all vents.
But because people still insist that all-vents are some kind of an early-game alien advantage over the marine team (to reach every area/rt of the map before the marine team), that i suggest the following amendment to my idea.
For vents that are to be used for this aliens-only purpose, as decided by the map maker, they simply make it like they do now in NS1... this dictates a vent which is properly sized so that at some point a jetpacker can freely fly into them. Especially useful at the end of the round for killing the alien survivors hiding in the gorge-nest.
For vents that are to be used equally by marines and aliens, throughout the round, as decided by the map maker, i suggest these special vents feature a ledge (or handle-bar / ladder rung of some kind) for marines to climb on to. Where by not having this grip, the most the marine (with the grappling hook thing) can do is rise up to the ceiling and look / shoot in to the alien-only vent what can normally be gl spammed anyway from the ground.
There your alien-only vents are still safe early in the game. Remember that while the idea of climbing into vent-like tunnels is something that is useful, for both aliens and marines, the idea of this grapple thing was not created for the exclusive purpose of getting marines into vents. Nor is that the exclusive purpose of the JetPack. The purpose of this grapple thing is to allow for more creativity in maps by introducing obstacles and destroyed areas. That the maps not look pristine (and yet have invisible elephant/guerrillas running around), and at all times still providing a means for marines with heavies or no-jetpacks to be able to traverse the terrain.
I also propose that NS2 VENTS be for aliens and that the NS2 MARINE TUNNELS be made in the style of the Star Trek "Jefferies tubes" <a href="http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jefferies_tube" target="_blank">http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jefferies_tube</a>
And yes this opens the door for multi-floored multi-leveled maps featuring a lot more diverse environments then what NS1 is capable of.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Solution<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> : A launchable grappling hook fired from the end of a rifle (hmg or lmg, etc)
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->How it will work<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> : The marine sticks the grapple thing on to the end of their weapon, they clip a carabiner to their belt, or heavy armor lift point, and then they shoot. When the grapple thing is fired, The grapple thing "turns on" and its internal wifi bluetooth thing syncs up with the marines in-game hud. The result is you can see on your screen the following vista-sidebar-style-ingame-ns2-gadget with the following buttons ("Release", "UP", "DOWN") to control the grapple things electric motor.
Yes, once the grapple thing is fired, you may use your weapon as usual to shoot things... even while being suspended from the super thin super strong string holding you up.
And yes, their can be times when you need to use this tool to lower you down safely from high areas... and for extra fun, their will be times when you need to shoot your grapple thing to a far away point on a 45 degree angle in order to swing over a massive lava river as found in most NS1 maps :P
(didn't halflife 1 have a barnacle thing that did what i'm describing... i remember using them in sven coop to repel down elevator shafts lol)
The affect on plain NS2 maps... we could use this to get into vents... gorges do this now in some servers... remember the gorge rope/hook script thing.
This can also offer a tactical advantage during an ambush... were either your team is rappelling into enemy territory from a big vent or your in a big room defending a corner and to help shoot over your teammate's collective heads, you ascend to the roof of the room... At least thats just some of the ways i'd use it.
Remember, NS marines are ninjas... we need ninja tools :D
Perhaps a method for firing off multiple pitons is needed... for example your trying to traverse a very large room, so you fire 1 and raise to the cieling... then you fire another piton... now 2 of the sidebar-gadgets appear stacked on the side of the screen... you hold down the "UP" button on the second piton and now your suspended from 2 of them... then you release your first which swings you out to below the second... eventually you reach steady state... i.e. not swinging about under the current piton... As you can imagine, in those big "JetPack" rooms like in supersiege 007 you can literally swing from one side of the room to the other by walking off the edge, for a quick escape of whatnot... this can be great fun :P
I just realized we might need a tactical-decent mode... i.e. it lowers you with great speed and auto disconnects you a safe height over the floor below for a small fall. The reason being you don't want to have to mess with the controls when the fighting is going on. You want quick entry into the situation. What can be more quicker then shooting out a piton, clicking the tactical-mode-button, and walking off an edge with hmg at the ready. I remember that this can be seen in the movie Minority Report when the "Police" come down from that spaceship thing they had.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->-----------------<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->Real life Examples<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> : (although it looks like these grapples are to be used for pulling tripwires from a safe distance to set off the enemy explosives, but really cool nonetheless lol)
<a href="http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=748_1179682979" target="_blank">http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=748_1179682979</a> fired from a m4
<a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-34-2/appc.htm#pgfId-1026786" target="_blank">http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...m#pgfId-1026786</a>
"Weapon-launched. A 150-meter lightweight rope is attached to a lightweight grapnel that is designed to be fired from an M16A1 or M16A2 rifle using an M855 cartridge. The grapnel is pushed onto the rifle muzzle with the opening of the retrieval-rope bag oriented toward the minefield. The firer is located 25 meters from the minefield's leading edge and aims the rifle muzzle at a 30- to 40-degree angle for maximum range. Once fired, the grapnel travels 75 to 100 meters from the firer's position. After the weapon-launched grapnel hook (WLGH) has been fired, the firer secures the rope, moves 60 meters from the minefield, moves into a prone position, and begins to grapple. The WLGH can be used only once to clear a minefield, but it can be reused up to 20 times for training because blanks are used to fire it.
C-58. Multiple grapplers can clear a lane of trip wires quickly and thoroughly, but they must time their efforts and follow procedures simultaneously. A hit on a trip wire or a pressure fuse can destroy the hook and the cord, so engineers should carry extras."
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGvibmr2CIU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGvibmr2CIU</a> The motorized ascender which we need in a green futuristic miniaturized form (yes unless you just noticed it now, mostly everything the marines in NS1 have is colored in some shade of green... from the weapons to the equipment to the armor)
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMON_breach_grenade" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMON_breach_grenade</a> (Click the picture on the right to see a bigger view) Ok this thing is just weird but it does show that their's no need to chamber a blank bullet if the thing being launched has a "bullet trap"... still looks weird lol.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->-----------------<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Alien Only Vents<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I keep on seeing people bringing up this discussion about how vents are for aliens only. Obviously this is not true because once marines have jetpacks, then they can travel in all areas of the map, throughout all vents.
But because people still insist that all-vents are some kind of an early-game alien advantage over the marine team (to reach every area/rt of the map before the marine team), that i suggest the following amendment to my idea.
For vents that are to be used for this aliens-only purpose, as decided by the map maker, they simply make it like they do now in NS1... this dictates a vent which is properly sized so that at some point a jetpacker can freely fly into them. Especially useful at the end of the round for killing the alien survivors hiding in the gorge-nest.
For vents that are to be used equally by marines and aliens, throughout the round, as decided by the map maker, i suggest these special vents feature a ledge (or handle-bar / ladder rung of some kind) for marines to climb on to. Where by not having this grip, the most the marine (with the grappling hook thing) can do is rise up to the ceiling and look / shoot in to the alien-only vent what can normally be gl spammed anyway from the ground.
There your alien-only vents are still safe early in the game. Remember that while the idea of climbing into vent-like tunnels is something that is useful, for both aliens and marines, the idea of this grapple thing was not created for the exclusive purpose of getting marines into vents. Nor is that the exclusive purpose of the JetPack. The purpose of this grapple thing is to allow for more creativity in maps by introducing obstacles and destroyed areas. That the maps not look pristine (and yet have invisible elephant/guerrillas running around), and at all times still providing a means for marines with heavies or no-jetpacks to be able to traverse the terrain.
I also propose that NS2 VENTS be for aliens and that the NS2 MARINE TUNNELS be made in the style of the Star Trek "Jefferies tubes" <a href="http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jefferies_tube" target="_blank">http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jefferies_tube</a>
And yes this opens the door for multi-floored multi-leveled maps featuring a lot more diverse environments then what NS1 is capable of.
Comments
<i>I know right :D +1 post count for you. Cause obviously you have a lot to say about the topic. Your name should be "Dream crusher" Because that's all your doing, why don't you back off of peoples topics, are they hurting you so bad. Here let me get you some pity cake.</i>
Another gripe of mine with this idea is the ability to toggle the hookshot, lowering or raising yourself. Correct me if I'm wrong and have misread your post. Again, this eliminates asymmetry between the teams. This ability would give marines the ability to hang onto walls, or just hang in the middle of a huge room, dangling some distance from the ceiling. In my opinion, I think that marines should be confined to the floor, mainly due to their ranged abilities. For them being able to hide in the same places that skulks hide, well, that is a big disadvantage for the kharaa. Trying to hit a skulk on the ceiling with a gun is much easier that hitting a marine on the ceiling with just your leap and bite(assuming skulks to get leap as a start ability)
Your idea of swinging using a grappling hook. I am fine with that, and can make interesting scenarios in maps. But it should not be used spiderman style to give the marines too much of a mobility boost. It should be used for one swing, detach, then u have to shoot the hook again, after your feet have landed on the ground.
Yes it does defeat the whole point if we're talking about NS1. But it fits into NS2 if it's added to the game before the mapping style is set in stone. They can have vents that are so small that only a skulk can travel them... i think that would preserve the point you are referring to.
This feature makes so much sense on so many levels.
If we look at the jetpack we can say it gives marines the ability to fly like a lerk or fade (mostly like a lerk)
And if we look at the heavy we can say it armors a marine sort of like a fade but not quite an onos (but a bunch of heavies can shoot up an onos)
If you noticed up to this point it is the tech toys of the marines that allows them to face the enemy on almost equal footing... (well NS1 wasn't optimized past 6 vs 6 players, but lets assume equal footing :P) ... so i guess that is asymmetrical right... both sides ending up with almost the same conclusion while following different paths. I mean we can't give the aliens a godzilla life form that can't be bested by the combined abilities of 5 marines...
So this "Technology" versus "Biology" concept breaks down when we compare a skulk with a marine. A skulk can climb on walls... a regular marine can't jump, and possible can't even bunny hop in ns2... but a skulk can leap large distances and in a sense fly/change direction in the air.
In that case, giving the standard marine, or even the heavy, a little bit of mobility in unusual non-linear maps allows for unusual non-linear maps to be created because now both humans and aliens would be able to explore them very early in the game. (not just aliens until marines have enough res to give everyone jetpacks).
Also this mobility really early in the round allows so much more of the map to be that crazy... I allows for maps where the shipped is crashed on a glacier and you must get from one "half" of the ship to the other by doing a bit of ice climbing.
All this suggestion does is blur the line between marine and alien gameplay, which is the opposite of good.
All this suggestion does is blur the line between marine and alien gameplay, which is the opposite of good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see how this idea will blur the line between aliens and marines. I think i just pointed out that this blur already exists with the aliens and marines in NS1. And in NS2, the new ability for each marine to buy the guns and jetpack/heavy stuff is an individual player choice just like it is for the aliens... does this not also blur those sacred lines? Oops i almost forgot... ALIEN COMMANDER... ok we're way beyond blurred at this point lol
But what your suggestion, of not allowing my suggestion into NS2, will do is make all NS2 maps function and look like NS1 maps. In short it will tie the hands of the map makers from trying anything beyond what's already possible in the NS1 mod. First off, all the RT's in the map would have to be in easily accessible areas or the marines will never have the res to get JP's to reach those rts... Not a problem if everyone shoots off a piton and gets where they need to be.
See it was the second sentence in my initial post for this idea:
"Problem: Standard (pre-jetpack or heavy) marines need a way to get into vents and on top of high structures. Without this ability, NS2 maps will be very linear, flat, single floored and for the most part vent-less, and obstacle-less CO maps."
A skulk can walk on walls without any effort involved. But with this new equipment, a marine can eventually hope to climb to a new height in a single room to access perhaps a highly placed RT-node, or whatever else is of importance in a map... perhaps shooting your weapon from that height is of importance so you can target enemies in a vent that do nothing but gas your small outpost / phasegate+armory area somewhere in the map. But using this equipment most certainly won't be as easy/natural as pressing the keys: WASD like it is for a skulk (and while a skulk can run around the cieling, a marine can just hang there or get down...). And i think it can be debated if this equipment is reusable or is a single-use piece of equipment that can only be shot once and then you need to buy a new one (or maybe you can carry at most 4 of these things before you need to resupply). And how does one buy stuff from the armory in NS2?...
So overall i don't think this idea will ruin what NS2 becomes to anyone that plays NS1. For those people that are annoyed... well their probably furious with the idea of multiple commanders... so what's a cool batman-grappling-hook/piton-launched-from-the-barrel-of-a-LMG/HMG (like a rifle grenade: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_grenade)" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_grenade</a>) gonna do? make them spontaneoussly combust?
I don't understand how adding a lot of unnecessary vertical ascension would make NS2 better.
Umm first it's pretty fun (i know from experience with other games that featured this)...
Second: jetpacks deal with "unnecessary vertical ascension" in NS1. Ever get into a vent with one? and i can't see the devs removing jetpacks and making all maps flat connected rooms...
Third: jetpacks are expensive to procure for the team and they take a lot of investment in res for the proto lab and in addition they require lots of time to research. With this new piece of equipment... we can fill those niche situations when you really need some way to get some vertical ascension/descension happening... but don't require free-flight like a jetpack provides.
Fourth: it'll be cheap to purchase... no research involved. This allows for interesting maps where you are forced by the mapmaker to accomplish some "unnecessary vertical ascension" feats... It's a situation where you'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.
Fifth: i really hate flat boring counterstrike-styled NS maps and i want to see something new in NS2. This allows for more flexibility in what the mapmaker is permitted to do. Now the map maker can make maps which not only span out horizontally, but rise up and down in areas... I.e. we're not playing Wolfenstein here.
We need it for the lawls end of story :P
i 2nd that motion :) lol
<i> Though there could be a broken elevator or gap because of some malfunction. So it isn't necessarily a fault, much less planned into the map itself. I dunno, I am more for the gorge hook web or whatever. Its fun to see spider gorges :P . Though its something that could be added to a future version of ns2, seeing as it is downloadable. Which also means its easily updateable.</i>
Here, let me get you some non-cursive font.
You might feel less special though, if you post like everyone else, so be prepared.
<!--quoteo(post=1718372:date=Jul 21 2009, 06:55 AM:name=Hebacheba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hebacheba @ Jul 21 2009, 06:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718372"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Part of the beauty of NS is that the game is quite balanced without direct counterbalances to everything.
All this suggestion does is blur the line between marine and alien gameplay, which is the opposite of good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with Hebacheba and his other posts.
It would be a really funny idea and feature though, if aliens could bite the rope and make the marine take fall damage or fall into lava or the pit of doom.
But still, imho it's only mod-worthy and not core-feature-worthy.
<!--quoteo(post=1718349:date=Jul 21 2009, 02:41 AM:name=Ninji)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ninji @ Jul 21 2009, 02:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cause obviously you have a lot to say about the topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yep, them six words are 'a lot.'
<!--quoteo(post=1718349:date=Jul 21 2009, 02:41 AM:name=Ninji)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ninji @ Jul 21 2009, 02:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your name should be "Dream crusher"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Damn straight.
<!--quoteo(post=1718349:date=Jul 21 2009, 02:41 AM:name=Ninji)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ninji @ Jul 21 2009, 02:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because that's all your doing, why don't you back off of peoples topics, are they hurting you so bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Why don't you back off my posts, are they hurting you so bad?
<!--quoteo(post=1718349:date=Jul 21 2009, 02:41 AM:name=Ninji)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ninji @ Jul 21 2009, 02:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here let me get you some pity cake.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Sweet! No, wait, bitter! Did you bake it with your own tears or somethin'? I swear you must have produced bucketloads by now.
Anyway, seriously, if you have a problem with me then take it to private message because right now you're clogging up the board with your pointless whining about me being a jerk. Otherwise, ~lets be fwends~ or at least don't be my, as someone on IRC put it, "post-stalker."
And the grappling hook (batman style deluxe edition) idea is very much unimplementable - it doesn't make sense for the marines to have access to certain areas earlier in the game. If, like someone mentioned, there's a lift that's broken, then have a maintenance ladder beside it, not some whacked-out grappling-hookable ledge.
CO2: But we've already issued jet-packs, they'll get around faster with tehm. CO1: But... BUT:.... Batman had grappling hooks!??!
Plus as already mentioned, aliens got this early game advantage, which is coo'...
CO2: But we've already issued jet-packs, they'll get around faster with tehm. CO1: But... BUT:.... Batman had grappling hooks!??!
Plus as already mentioned, aliens got this early game advantage, which is coo'...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's because of that early game advantage that Batman grapple hook things are necessarily. (But not in a direct way, where by having a batman grapple thing, that marines will somehow have access to all areas of the map faster then a skulk!)
In a standard NS map... the aliens go with skulk mode at high speed to many many RTS and then gorge. They can have 1 RT up per player if they wanted to... meanwhile the marines are still building armories... Now what happens later in the round is the marines still don't have enough RTS or even a Proto (to even begin researching JPs) but the enemy has enough res for many Fades, Lerks, Onos's...And the occasional field of OCs blocking both exits from marine start with an invisible ONOS standing guard.
Now even if we assume that the marine team has res and began dropping jetpacks in limited quantity... their will always be some marine that died, or wasn't presant during the massive JP dropps), and he will most likely never get a jetpack, until it's "JP FTW!!" time. Their simply won't be enough res for a constant resupply for the entire team for any length of time (unless this is a siege map we're playing).
So the point being... while this doesn't superbly enhance the marines ability to go do insta-win, or out-run skulks to the RTs, or fly about like he could with a JetPack... it does give them the ability to do one of the things a JP is required for (for those long agonizing 20/30 minutes before their is any... and for the periods after when jetpacks can't be re-purchased), which is getting better access to the map... and for crossing obstacles quicker (that mappers can now add to their maps). It's a really small perk for marines that could be enough of a boost to help them.
Also most people are not seeing this point... but the heavy could use them also!!! And everyone knows how mobile-impaired they are. Some marines just flat-out don't want a heavy because it can't access the map... i.e. fly. So this will help people learn to win with heavies when the battlefield is not just a long hallway to the hive... but instead might require climbing out of some giant moon crater. Another scenario is your a heavy and your walking in a cave and their's a area where with another tunnel above you but you can only jump 3 ft... what do you do?
Ok ONE LAST EXAMPLE: ... your a heavy and your playing stargate_xt9.... you can either wait for a jetpack to fly out and establish a ninja-phasegate, or you can die by walking through the gate... well now you can do one more thing... the entire team of heavies can march outside and fire off their pitons and get up and over that divider to get down safely to where the xt9 has landed!! Heavy Rush? lol
Also, I think if the aliens need a second hive before they get leap then the marines should need to research past 1 or 2 uses per life.
Lastly, I can see a squad of 5 marines hanging in 4 corners of the room and 1 hanging like a pinata. This would be tough to kill other than just spore gassing :D.
I recognize your, and other peoples concerns, about these alien-only vents and have figured out a way to make this all work. See the bottom of post #1 in this thread.
A short summary of my proposed solution to this problem is that their be a handle-bar / ladder rung of some kind around the openings for vents which marines (and aliens) are to access.
And if a vent lacks this opening, that the marines not be able to hook and climb in, but aliens still can.
(Yes this is about introducing a difference between alien-only and marine-and/or-alien vents to the game)
This still allows for my intended purpose of this idea, which is a way for marines (without jetpack / with heavy) to climb to upper levels of a map that feature gangways and upper floors/hallways that for whatever reason aren't accessible without a JetPack.
(And since marines typically spend 90% of the round without a JetPack ...(and how much difficulty heavies have doing anything but walking)... That is the overall justification for this grapple thing)
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You'd think that marine-vents would feature ladders for access from the ground level... but i guess we can imagine that some vents were to be accessible with cherry-pickers so that's what i'm trying to introduce.
We obviously can just make it where you can't hook into any vent. And forget about adding marine-vents in along with the alien vents. That'd be ok to.
SOS - Learn LUA and do it yourself ;)
SOS - Learn LUA and do it yourself ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LUA? pfft... i want this in everyones game, in everyones server ;)
Anyways... LUA modding will only be as powerful as the lua-exposed game functions. Who knows if the devs will provide a means for implementing new-features/weapons/tools/equipment to the game??
And on top of that... map makers won't be making creative multi-floored crag-like environments if they know only a few people running some exotic script will be able to play through them...
Please just give up on this idea, FocusedWolf.
Anyways... LUA modding will only be as powerful as the lua-exposed game functions. Who knows if the devs will provide a means for implementing new-features/weapons/tools/equipment to the game??
And on top of that... map makers won't be making creative multi-floored crag-like environments if they know only a few people running some exotic script will be able to play through them...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have seen a news post (2 actually) that talke about the ability to add a new weapon / tech / building etc. etc. All via LUA code.
From the way I read and understand it, there is no need to restart the server/change map, just drop it in and the system detects the change and computes it on the fly.
As for batman style hook's etc...
The marines are soldiers, not Secret Agents doing Mission Impossible snatch and grab of data from highly secure locations.
Show me a marine force in sci-fic movies that have "batman style hooks" to get upto vents and climb through them etc. etc.
All for the idea on a custom server, but not in live launch please.
As a mapper I concur with the plausibility of the idea.
There are so many problems to this, one of which I find the biggest is netcode. You'll have a lot going on-screen with Lerks flying, Skulks dashing, Marines running, Jetpackers flying; adding a grappling hook modification to the weapon or marine would probably be extremely laggy over multiplayer. I'm yet to see a grappling hook effect not be, the best being Smashball HL2 modification I've seen and still then that's buggy and laggy.
It's nice to see you are enthusiastic focused wolf but I think you should be thinking more about your ideas as I don't think you have fully thought through every aspect of them. Talk them over with a few friends or even talk to a few of us in the IRC channel, #naturalselection on Gamesurge you're always welcome.