Make heavy armour unable to crouch
borsuk
Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67717Members
Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67717Members
<div class="IPBDescription">To prevent them from entering vents</div>Hi
I think heavy armour marines in vents is a very uncool thing. Vents should be the domain of aliens, or at least only nimble light armour marines. Heavy armour needs a downside too. Heavy armour is just too strong in vents. With no room to dodge and no competition from bigger aliens, it's almost a no-brainer to enter vents. And I think it's wrong.
Battlesuits can't crouch in Tremulous, and this makes them distinctive from light armour. Not only it's realistic, but also thematic and fun to play.
I think heavy armour marines in vents is a very uncool thing. Vents should be the domain of aliens, or at least only nimble light armour marines. Heavy armour needs a downside too. Heavy armour is just too strong in vents. With no room to dodge and no competition from bigger aliens, it's almost a no-brainer to enter vents. And I think it's wrong.
Battlesuits can't crouch in Tremulous, and this makes them distinctive from light armour. Not only it's realistic, but also thematic and fun to play.
Comments
I do believe heavies should be able to crouch, just not fit in vents (maybe make their crouch height higher than that of a normal marine)
Likewise, aliens that were too big for their models to fit in vents shouldn't be allowed in either.
Though this isn't disallowing the existence of different sizes of vents to allow different sizes of creatures in
Or even better.. boneshield onos with a DC healing at the end of the vent. Now you've got at least one heavy being useless in a vent (at worst) and perhaps even costing the marines res if they try to keep him ammo'd/healed up.
If the marines want to waste their time and resources like that, then, as an alien, I certainly don't want to stop them.
QFT.
while i agree it is strange, thematically, to have a heavy in a vent, i also have to agree that i have never heard of it being a worthwhile tactic.
i also hope the NS2 team will make appropriate hit detection and interaction with the environment for their characters in general, and while crouching as well, waht with all the advances weve made in games nowadays, but who knows? (re: heavies heads sticking through vents and onos...everything sticking through...everything else. specifically, their back half seemed to be etheral to everything but bullets, which was a darn shame. interesting though, that it could go through walls if you backed up, enabling hiding in corners and such, but ill be darned if bullets could go through it! of course, the humans had to pick the one material which doesnt pass through them! hows that for a crazy random coincidence?)
crouching is very important so that people can shoot over you when you in the front row
[joke] Then if it was a samus suit, heavy marines could roll up into a ball and Sneak into the hive and stay balled up in a hidden corner, NINJA HEAVY BALL FTW! [/joke]
And it's not that illogical for a heavy armour which was never much taller than a standard marine to be able to fit in the vent, especially as fades could fit in with no issue. You know fades, right? They're much bigger than the skulks which you said "are 'barely' able to slip through" vents.
I think heavy armour marines in vents is a very uncool thing. Vents should be the domain of aliens, or at least only nimble light armour marines. Heavy armour needs a downside too. Heavy armour is just too strong in vents. With no room to dodge and no competition from bigger aliens, it's almost a no-brainer to enter vents. And I think it's wrong.
Battlesuits can't crouch in Tremulous, and this makes them distinctive from light armour. Not only it's realistic, but also thematic and fun to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not ok with this.
First, in NS1 i found the heavy armor far to weak to just stand there and "take it" from the enemy. Sometimes i duck out of the fight to reload my weapon... Sometimes all the cover that's available is ducking behind a armory. Sometimes your armor is to weak and you need a weld...
To put it frankly if the heavy has a hard time crouching then it probably has a hard time Walking and Jumping and Turning!!! i mean just to be realistic it really indicates they can hardly move at all.
I would settle for the following compromise... heavies can crouch but they move slowly when crouched. That's what we have now and it works... also i don't remember any maps in NS that featured giant vent battles with heavies crawling in mass... with the single exception being digsiege! but obviously fades can just acid rocket every heavy in a row because the hmg couldn't kill 1 fade in a 1 on 1 fight anyway (which is what happened in that map)...
If we are going to go this route then we must do the same to the alien team... i.e. no fades or onos in vents :P
But HAs should not be able to get into Vents, if they can they are extremely slow when crouched (for comparitive purposes, lay down and crawl forward without using your arms just your legs). That sort of slowness... so slow they are useless in a vent.
A heavy rush through the vents is almost unstoppable if done right. The only counter I know of is the Onos waiting for devour at the end of the vent (which is now gone, but is easily replaced by the onos doing his shield infront of the vent) and Fade acid spam. A heavy train in the vents for a sneak assault on the Hive pretty much means the end of the Hive, providing the Aliens don't hear them coming (which is likely as crouching had no walking sounds IIR.)
Camping the vents with heavies has two possible goals. One, you get to kill the Aliens who think it a good idea to rush you from any which way they can. Two, you can drop some sort of building infront of the vent, be it a PG or TF and you've basically denied the Aliens the area as no one is getting close without being mowed down. I agree however, that sometimes it really is just better out in the open.
Anyways, I agree with most of the posts regarding crouching. Heavies should be able to crouch. They should even be able to into vents, providing standard marines can. I think the vents themselves should be designed in such a way that it prevents marines without jetpacks from getting very far though. For example, the vent entrances should jut in a bit then go up in 90% angle. The marines can camp inside the entrances to the vents still. This would be both beneficial for incoming Aliens, who won't be snipable, and would prevent the Marines from using most of the vents effectively. I don't believe all vents should be this way however, a map should have some sort of balance.
A heavy rush through the vents is almost unstoppable if done right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you! Anyway, Fades aren't as bulky as heavy armor, Nor as heavy. Fades are nimble and tall, they can crouch and make it through that way. How does a walking block of metal make it through?
It's a massive body armor and marines are only able to move with it because of this support from this exoskeleton. So it would be an easy design-choice to say: they need their legs straight for the armor to carry this weight and they are not able to crouch.
I simply like the idea and style - different tactics for different equipment - this adds more depth.
The question of balancing is something different.
Fades are the same size if not larger than Heavy Armour soldiers. Look at them.
I know I'm pushing it but Fades are still thinner, and if not at least you can agree that they are alot more flexible than a hunk of metal.
What do you think a heavy armor is a hunk of metal... and because of this, it doesn't have joints and can't flex.
They can feature new heavies in ns2 that have new lightweight ultra thin armor that is strong as steel, light as a feather, and flexible like rubber... couple that with the enhanced bio limbs and theirs no reason they can't sprint, jump higher, or crouch.... they might have roller skates when crouched for easy maneuvering in a vent.
Now regardless, a fade is huge as a heavy (even a bit taller),... and their's no way a fade should be allowed to fit in a vent... ever.
In Ns1 you can see that fades are so big that their bodies tend to stick out through the floor, sides, and roof of a vent
Also their's this to consider:
marine = skulk
marine with welder = gorge
marine with jetpack = lerk
marine with heavy = fade
?? 10 marines and a tf blocking = onos
so the fade is comparable to the role of the heavy therefore they should have the same limitations for the most part. If fades can fly then heavies should be twice as armored as a cause for their lack of flight :P
Their shoulders are wider. Flexible or not it'd be breaking the rules of physics if heavy armours have more difficulty than them.
I don't. I believe "heavies" (exoskeletons) should be -more- maneuverable.
<a href="http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=104316" target="_blank">Another topic about exoskeletons in general.</a> Maybe offtopic.
Sir, I honestly don't see the logic in that. Though apparently I'm wrong. Also while that link gave good Ideas about new armor, the armor from Ns1 is what I'm referring to. If this armor is as bulky as before I really feel it is illogical to cram it in a vent and expect to succeed. Its like playing with a child's toy, the one with all the shapes and you have to fit them through. The armor is as good as a circle going into a square, Its way too tight a fit in my opinion.</i>
~~Sickle~~
Spells gorge & grenade trap.
Then everyone will just make vents a bit taller.
~~Sickle~~
~~Sickle~~<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Well, why not remove the ability to crouch. Though give the heavy armor something like the onos? A metal shield that protects the immediate front? Idk, just throwing a idea out there. </i>
~~Sickle~~<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If a map-maker wants to ruin the balance of his map, then yes. But if map-makers want to conform the the NS2 standards, then they wont make tall vents. Thats like saying everyone in NS1 made maps with ladders to all vents, so marines can get in them. They didnt, because that ruins the balance. Sure, when you're playing a map and see a high up vent, you want to get in it to kill that pesky lerk, and curse the map-maker for putting such vent. But if there was a ladder, then aliens would have nowhere to hide and get dominated by marines open corridor advantage.
<!--coloro:grey--><span style="color:grey"><!--/coloro-->I think it'd be more like if they made the range of siege cannons a little shorter in a patch and map makers just made the hive rooms a little smaller/moved the hive a bit so the old siege areas were in range again. If you don't want heavies in vents, don't let them get at all close to the size of a vent, otherwise the community will be able to adjust. And while you could use that to have all access vents and normal marine only vents, that sort of thing would probably be hard to easily and "immersively" show. It'd probably be best to either let heavies in vents or not let them crouch any significant amount.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
~~Sickle~~