Hit Detection method

leokollnleokolln Join Date: 2009-03-17 Member: 66781Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Hit-box is BAD</div>Will NS2 use the <b>frustrating</b> and old technology of Hit-box "bullet" detection?

There is already games that uses per-poly-hit detection, eg: Doom III, Unreal 3...

Comments

  • S!KS!K Join Date: 2009-07-03 Member: 68024Members
    I'm pretty sure they will. I remember reading something somewhere, written by flayra I believe, saying that if your hitting the model, no matter what ping the player has, it will register. Same goes for vice-versa. So, if your hitting a skulk's model when the skulk has 1000 ping, your still hitting him. Pretty sure that this is what you mean, but I could be wrong. Most games nowadays have this implemented so I think it's safe to say this is the case for NS2.
  • leokollnleokolln Join Date: 2009-03-17 Member: 66781Members
    No, what i'm talking about is the detection where and how the hit is detected.

    Ex: Sometimes you shoot the head, but the hit is detected on the arm or other place.

    Read this to the end and you will understand what i'm talking about: <a href="http://www.economy-point.org/h/hit-box.html" target="_blank">http://www.economy-point.org/h/hit-box.html</a>
  • UnderwhelmedUnderwhelmed DemoDetective #?&#33; Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The hit box system is at most common system for the determination of hits, some few plays (e.g. Doom 3) uses however an absolutely accurate system (by Polygon hit Detection) - these systems are however unequally resources reading tigers and permit in on-line plays usually a by far smaller player number.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Doesn't sound like a good idea for a game that is designed for 12+ players.
  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Who the F translated that? That's a horrible Denglisch!


    As for the issue itself, I don't think it will pose much of a problem anymore since the hitcode of ns1 was based on half life, which wasnt very good indeed. Many a peep argued and I think UWE listened to them and made the detection superior.
    If not... bad luck. For them.
  • Eternaly_LostEternaly_Lost Join Date: 2004-11-20 Member: 32907Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1715825:date=Jul 5 2009, 12:15 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Underwhelmed @ Jul 5 2009, 12:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715825"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Doesn't sound like a good idea for a game that is designed for 12+ players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You could call a game of ns a small number of player when you compare it to what you got in wow.

    I am a bit confused here why the hitbox != the model? is it because the hit box is where the player really is the the model is what we see predicted? That would mean to fix that, you need less latency, or more traffic. The second being everyone has to send more data upstream, with where they are and where the opponents where predicted? That would raise server load, without adding much to standard low latency round, but would greatly improve high latency high bandwidth games.

    Increasing the system requirements to use a system that is only good for people playing out of country might not be worth it, you want to balance the hit code based on the normal game, not the worst game.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    edited July 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1715830:date=Jul 5 2009, 05:50 PM:name=Eternaly_Lost)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eternaly_Lost @ Jul 5 2009, 05:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715830"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am a bit confused here why the hitbox != the model?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If I've understood it correctly, the model is drawn on the client side. It's position is the result of a lot of prediction and interpolating done on your computer only. Meanwhile the hitbox location is calculated by the server and it doesn't update as smoothly as the model location does.

    There are probably more reasons for it, but that explains most of the hitreg issues.

    <!--quoteo(post=1715829:date=Jul 5 2009, 05:41 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Jul 5 2009, 05:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the issue itself, I don't think it will pose much of a problem anymore since the hitcode of ns1 was based on half life, which wasnt very good indeed. Many a peep argued and I think UWE listened to them and made the detection superior.
    If not... bad luck. For them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm not sure. The netcodes haven't developed as much as the rest of the games. At least Sherpa has often said that ID has been the only developer able to provide excellent netcode to their games and from my experience even Quake Live has got some features I don't like. Nevertheless, I'm sure UWE recognizes the problem and tries to overcome it. The results remain to be seen.
  • UnderwhelmedUnderwhelmed DemoDetective #?&#33; Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1715830:date=Jul 5 2009, 09:50 AM:name=Eternaly_Lost)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eternaly_Lost @ Jul 5 2009, 09:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715830"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You could call a game of ns a small number of player when you compare it to what you got in wow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Don't be stupid. The article is talking about Doom 3, which supports a maximum of 4 players by default. WOW isn't even in the same ###### genre, and it most certainly does not use hit detection based on the model. I'm also pretty sure Doom 3 isn't as fast paced as NS2 will be.

    All this will do is make the "hitbox" conform more closely to the model, which is great if you're shooting at stationary targets and probably not that useful in a real gaming situation, since most of bad hitreg results from a mismatch between what the client and server sees. In fact, the additional strain on the server might even reduce the accuracy, as the server will be calculating and sending out less updates to clients.
  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You could call a game of ns a small number of player when you compare it to what you got in wow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    *facepalm*

    WoW has no hit recognition. Attacks are announced to the server as "x attacks y with z at range w", and that's all to it.
    all the fancy colorfull stuff is made up on the client.
  • ghost in the shellghost in the shell Join Date: 2008-09-28 Member: 65094Members
    edited July 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1715830:date=Jul 5 2009, 12:50 PM:name=Eternaly_Lost)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Eternaly_Lost @ Jul 5 2009, 12:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715830"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am a bit confused here why the hitbox != the model?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Every time someone fires a bullet, the engine has to check what it hit and boxes are easier to detect than a full mesh, whether the engine goes back over and retraces the bullet with the more accurate mesh, I don't know.

    PS. If you really wanted to know, its probably in the HL SDK at <a href="http://metamod.sourceforge.net/files/sdk/" target="_blank">http://metamod.sourceforge.net/files/sdk/</a>
  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    NS pretty much made half-life do things it wasn't made to do with the netcode. They talk about this in one of their podcasts, so I am sure they going to make it good. I do remember them talking about new "capsule" hitboxes so you don't get caught up on stuff like in NS1.
  • AvataAvata Join Date: 2009-05-25 Member: 67477Members
    edited July 2009
    Remember in AvP you could blow the limbs off aliens and they would keep charging for you? Or you blew off their legs and they'd crawl at you.... That was fricking AWESOME and I haven't seen that done since.

    Blowing the limbs off khara, or gibbing in any form, would be great.

    Xeno-bomb gibbing marines would be the shiznit

    EDIT - I'm not going as far as saying the player should be able to lose limbs and still keep playing.... I'm just talking about the DEAD player's model showing signs of damage in the way of disconnected body parts.... ALA "Aliens", and "Stormship Troopers". And Gibbing ALA "DOOM" or to a lesser extent "Quake" for marines. "Why would you want that?" I hear you ask. The answer is simple.... Visceral atmosphere! More like playing in a movie and less like a carnival booth.
  • sinbusinbu Join Date: 2003-02-02 Member: 12994Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I would hope that it would be per polygon registration, and that the code nowadays should be optimised enough to run on most computers with only 16 players playing. It's really important in this type of game, especially when the Onos has a shield in the front now
  • homicidehomicide Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22451Members
    Hitboxes have nothing to do with latency or netcode. They have nothing to do with the error between server and client. They reduce the load on the server and are great approximations in fast paced games.
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