Infestation wall
Racer1
Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
As an extension to alien infestation, make it possible (perhaps only by the alien commander, or via a special chamber) for the aliens to build a wall which forms, for example, across a hallway. Initially, it could be a few strands. But over time (a few minutes), it would resemble a web or mesh. As with other structures, it would gain health as it builds.
This wall, once fully formed, would completely block marines from crossing it -- although they could potentially shoot through its visible gaps. While the wall is being formed, marines could still get through it -- although at a slower and slower speed depending on how developed the wall is. Aliens would be able to move through the wall at normal walking speed -- no running or "blinking" through the wall. The onos would move through at a much slower rate.
The wall could, of course, be destroyed, with lots of grenades and/or flamethrower. However, it would quickly heal itself if not being attacked. Knifing the wall would give a visceral response and stop the wall from healing itself, but would not really hurt it.
The ability to build the wall would be available from the beginning of the game. However, it could only be used near infestation or perhaps near certain alien chambers. Proximity to other walls or being in a "powered" area might be other limiting factors.
It would not be possible to "siege" the wall, since the point of the wall is to make the marines attack it from nearby.
P.S. I'd really like to be able for the aliens to actually build the wall from something. Like what, you ask? Marine body parts is the first thing that comes to mind, although NS has never been keen on gore so I'm willing to let it go. However, we could use their dropped weapons. Another material could be the "creep" itself, which could be potentially picked up by the gorge and placed on the wall. If nothing else, gorge heal spray could always be used as a last resort.
This wall, once fully formed, would completely block marines from crossing it -- although they could potentially shoot through its visible gaps. While the wall is being formed, marines could still get through it -- although at a slower and slower speed depending on how developed the wall is. Aliens would be able to move through the wall at normal walking speed -- no running or "blinking" through the wall. The onos would move through at a much slower rate.
The wall could, of course, be destroyed, with lots of grenades and/or flamethrower. However, it would quickly heal itself if not being attacked. Knifing the wall would give a visceral response and stop the wall from healing itself, but would not really hurt it.
The ability to build the wall would be available from the beginning of the game. However, it could only be used near infestation or perhaps near certain alien chambers. Proximity to other walls or being in a "powered" area might be other limiting factors.
It would not be possible to "siege" the wall, since the point of the wall is to make the marines attack it from nearby.
P.S. I'd really like to be able for the aliens to actually build the wall from something. Like what, you ask? Marine body parts is the first thing that comes to mind, although NS has never been keen on gore so I'm willing to let it go. However, we could use their dropped weapons. Another material could be the "creep" itself, which could be potentially picked up by the gorge and placed on the wall. If nothing else, gorge heal spray could always be used as a last resort.
Comments
Reason:
Marines need to sacrifice lots of Ammo to get through a Wall that could be spammed like 4 Times in the same hallways.
Does spell anything but balanced for me.
No thank you.
Gorges will be getting the ability to morph Infestation, leave it at that.
An infestation wall would also reduce the main advantage of the marines, being their range. If you block off the visuals or bullets down a hallway you allow skulks to set up around it or behind it and wait in ambush for marines to come and try to slowly walk through it or take time to destroy it, so distracting their attention from the skulks/aliens.
In addition it sounds like these walls would only really be a problem around the mid-late game when marine firepower tends to make skulks cry.
I can only think of two or three situations in which this would be balanced and well used. The potential number of situations in which this could be abused are rather limitless. And as much as I like that idea, I'm not willing to throw away gameplay just because every once in a while you'd see it being used in game like it actually should be. Imagine a lame strategy in which every alien goes gorge and spams these infestation walls in every route leading to the last hive? Of course your counterargument is to simply limit the number of such said infestation walls, but then what would keep them from simply building another right behind the last destroyed wall? It worked with webbing only because it was a hive 3 ability and by then most marines had either a grenade launcher (or single grenade) or a welder. You could make a stretch and say a welder could tear down infestation walls, but come on.. we're talking about a welder, not a bulldoser.
I think having the infestation close off rooms or pathways and etc could be a fun dynamic, but only as much as is dictated by the map design. As in, infested areas shut off doors or lifts in such a way as to the advantage of aliens, but this is all managed by the map designer and fixed locals.
Or things like, infestation weakens jetpacks (if they're still included). So a jetpack can get to an infested vent, but can't jetpack down it to escape or otherwise. Or, as according to the map design, there would be vents that HAVE to be clear of infestation for jetpacks to navigate, because there is a vertical shaft and the infestation is too much for the jetpack to get through, and thus falls back down. Also a hive room fully infested would be more difficult for a jetpack rush (Still probably fatal, but less of a foregone conclusion).
Make it so gorges can climb infestation like a skulk, and plant chambers in the walls and ceiling.
Yeah I've seen speculation about that, but no dev comments.
I like the idea, although it should take too much to break and should probably have anti-spam features. Even if it just hid line of sight and bullets tore through it like paper it would be useful.
IF that is so, no need for ###### ass gorge wall crawl.
If a gorge can climb infestation, then he can seed a chamber in the ceiling, and climb up to assist building.
If he can't climb infestation, then he can still seed on the ceiling, but it takes longer to grow... and the player must decide if it's worth the wait.
I just like the idea of teams having home turf advantage. Right now it's all about chambers for aliens and turrents/AA's for marines. That's cool, but why not make the infestation and power grid concepts more than just visual? Make them practical/tactical as well. The more gameplay options that can be introduced with these game mechanics the better I reckon. As a marine in an infested area I want to be paranoid and watching the corners. As an alien I want to scatter like a cockroach when the lights come on.
Also, just because infestation and power grids can influence the environment and gameplay, it doesn't mean that the map designers have to use this. There is always logical reasons why a map can be made that isn't effected but infestation and electricity availability. Just because you can, doesn't mean you have to.
If it's easy to burn away with a flamethrower it's mostly for visual effect (and hiding behind/around as aliens)
It's not important enough to be in NS2 v1.0 but maybe NS2 1.04 or 2.01
The idea of a gradually accumulating 'mess' of infestation on the floors, walls and these new 'webbed' areas of hallway would encourage players to request flamethrowers, since the alternative would be 25% or so reduced movement within the webbed area, plus slight visual impairment. The whole idea would also hopefully give aliens more opportunities for ambushes and traps.
I imagine this as kind of a really really really scaled up version of gorge web, without the near-immobilization and much better graphics!
With infestation, I think this is going to completely through off the gameplay. Since the aliens don't have to do anything to have the infestation disable machinery, that doesn't make much sense.
I think that if infestation was to occur, it should occur when say for instance, a res node is built and the infestation grows from the res node, or a chamber of any sort where it would grow from that. And when they are taken down by a marine, the infestation would simply die off.
I had always dreamed of NS2 almost the same exact way as NS1 but with better graphics. It was just so balanced.
I DO LIKE, however, how the Onos has been turned into more of a defensive alien than offensive. I'm sure it was always meant to be that way, but turns out that a good Onos in NS1 could hold off an entire team. I'd like to see the Onos simply help with rushes (where skulks and fades hide behind him when he's using his shield and when he get's close enough all the aliens pop out from behind him)
I hope the Onos doesn't have the ability to paralyze a player anymore. I know that they can disable machinery.
I like the idea, although it should take too much to break and should probably have anti-spam features. Even if it just hid line of sight and bullets tore through it like paper it would be useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I take it back. It exists.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Charlie added a gorge "seedling" that is basically a protective wall ("bony growth"?). Can't wait to play with that.7:37 PM Jan 9th from web<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can only think of two or three situations in which this would be balanced and well used. The potential number of situations in which this could be abused are rather limitless. And as much as I like that idea, I'm not willing to throw away gameplay just because every once in a while you'd see it being used in game like it actually should be. Imagine a lame strategy in which every alien goes gorge and spams these infestation walls in every route leading to the last hive? Of course your counterargument is to simply limit the number of such said infestation walls, but then what would keep them from simply building another right behind the last destroyed wall? It worked with webbing only because it was a hive 3 ability and by then most marines had either a grenade launcher (or single grenade) or a welder. You could make a stretch and say a welder could tear down infestation walls, but come on.. we're talking about a welder, not a bulldoser.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm not necessarily for or against this idea, but I'm against calling things that we have not seen in a game unbalanced. I'm going to counter-argue by ridiculous example.
Fades are strong lifeforms. Imagine a lame strategy every alien goes fade and attacks the marines. Right, that's not going to happen; why not? Because aliens need other lifeforms, or they'll get rolled by no upgrades/hives/res to re-fade. Same with this. If every gorge chooses to put up a wall, they can get dominated when marines get an armoury up next to the wall and shotty it down in 5 seconds, having nobody to stop them but measly gorges.
Fades are strong lifeforms. Imagine a lame strategy every alien goes fade and attacks the marines. Right, that's not going to happen; why not? Because aliens need other lifeforms, or they'll get rolled by no upgrades/hives/res to re-fade. Same with this. If every gorge chooses to put up a wall, they can get dominated when marines get an armoury up next to the wall and shotty it down in 5 seconds, having nobody to stop them but measly gorges.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How many gorges would it take to lame up a hallway with webbing? Only reason why you don't see that is because the gorge would be in direct line of fire and marine would simply not get caught up in webbing and shoot at it. If they're actual barriers, gorges can do this, though I think you're assuming I meant that all would go gorge and all would lame infestation walls. It'd only take one persistent bugger to hole in the Kharaa in their last hive and keep placing infestation walls down as soon as one is shot down.
And true, while we shouldn't call things which have not been seen in a game unbalanced, it's also true that if I suggested an idea which would cause all spawning Kharaa in ns2 to start off as onos and not as skulks, that's unbalanced. Lets not pretend all ideas aren't necessarily unbalanced until we try them. :P
And true, while we shouldn't call things which have not been seen in a game unbalanced, it's also true that if I suggested an idea which would cause all spawning Kharaa in ns2 to start off as onos and not as skulks, that's unbalanced. Lets not pretend all ideas aren't necessarily unbalanced until we try them. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we assume that the web-walls only slow marine movement down and don't restrict it entirely while also providing a visual impairment to varying degrees, we won't see situations where a team full of gorges can completely stop marine movement. A couple of marines could just slowly walk through the webbing and then do some gorge-popping. Alternatively one marine with a flamethrower would be able to melt through the webbing like butter.
Balance: Time
While these might in some playtest build be able to construct themselves (slowly) the idea that a gorge would have to take the time to build a structure that has no defencive, offensive or resource-based effect beyond the meta-game allows the gorge to:
a. do something useful when he's not sitting around with 0 res,
b. consider the value of his time spent "oh 10 seconds building this web-wall up a bit or 10 seconds of running down the hallway to get to that res node? decisions!
It's really no more tactical than a skulk waiting in ambush vs trying to attack head-on when a marine approaches. Certain decisions are not even really decisions because you'd almost never get an advantage to the contrary.