Natural Selection 2 News Update - New web server and upcoming content tools

2

Comments

  • TriggermanTriggerman Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    I personally really like their way of developing the game. The community helps keeping a game alive more than ever now, and to promote custom content during the alpha will not only help them have a variety of levels they could include in the release, but the community will also have more experience to help newcomers by the time the game hits gold. Websites will/could also start popping up to offer a place for tutorials and so on for these tools before the larger masses come.
    Also I'm certain that being the developers they are (while things work fine for them, Joe Average doesn't), they can't possibly know all there is to make the tools user-friendly, something we'll most definitively be able to give feedback on.

    And if they give mapping guidelines along with it, I will sure as hell give leveldesign a try.
    I just hope the tools will be out soon :(
    However, the argument that a 'small' number of people will have access fails for a pretty obvious reason (95% SE preorders, anyone?).
  • StappStapp Join Date: 2009-06-10 Member: 67775Members
    Is there eventually going to be a free NS2-only version of Decoda included with the SDK tools/NS2RT?

    Also, assuming VMF's can still be imported through the level editor, will other Source engine assets be easily imported (SMD models/animations, VTF textures)?
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    I still remember my first terrible creation with the NSTR, and that was quite some time ago.

    Can't wait to get my hands on the new editor. :P
  • duxdux Tea Lady Join Date: 2003-12-14 Member: 24371Members, NS2 Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1713756:date=Jun 24 2009, 11:09 AM:name=Triggerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Triggerman @ Jun 24 2009, 11:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713756"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also I'm certain that being the developers they are (while things work fine for them, Joe Average doesn't), they can't possibly know all there is to make the tools user-friendly, something we'll most definitively be able to give feedback on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's a negative, commander! The amount of Level Design experience in this small team is huge and we've all used tones of editors - so we're putting emphasis on user friendly.
  • TriggermanTriggerman Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    <!--quoteo(post=1713767:date=Jun 24 2009, 11:56 AM:name=dux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dux @ Jun 24 2009, 11:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713767"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's a negative, commander! The amount of Level Design experience in this small team is huge and we've all used tones of editors - so we're putting emphasis on user friendly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Oh, great! I'm just the kind of guy that assumes the 'worst' so I don't set my personal expectations too high, but that's good to hear :)
  • ctdctd Join Date: 2009-06-01 Member: 67611Members
    I would love to see a map similar to CP_STEEL from TF2 <a href="http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Steel" target="_blank">http://tf2wiki.net/wiki/Steel</a>. It would rock having a map where what resource points you controlled directly affected the dynamics and navigation of the map. I understand this is similar to what the company of heroes territory power grid does but I think it would be an extra unique map feature.

    If some people haven't played cp_steel before basically as you cap more points the map becomes easier and shorter to navigate. When you lose points the map shuts down whole hallways so it takes longer to navigate the map.
  • derWalterderWalter Join Date: 2008-10-29 Member: 65323Members
    why is this nstr NOT FREE?
    what was the reason for this decision?

    cheatcoders? or is it your MONEY now?
    (wich, indeed, we as community made possible in both ways you got it)
  • SuperflySuperfly Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3485Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1713799:date=Jun 24 2009, 03:26 PM:name=derWalter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (derWalter @ Jun 24 2009, 03:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why is this nstr NOT FREE?what was the reason for this decision? cheatcoders? or is it your MONEY now?(wich, indeed, we as community made possible in both ways you got it)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It is free, it is just being given out sooner to those who pre-order.
  • devicenulldevicenull Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1713659:date=Jun 23 2009, 09:29 PM:name=IronFist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IronFist @ Jun 23 2009, 09:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713659"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is documentation of the game's Lua-exposed API going to be included with NS2TR, or is this primarily aimed at media/map developers?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I find it very unlikely that information about the LUA API is going to be released. Whenever we've tried to get information about it, we got answers of "don't know yet", or "it's not done".. I'd assume they don't want to release an API then have to change it later, but personally I'd be happy with anything to get started with, even if it ends up changing.
  • JirikiJiriki retired ns1 player Join Date: 2003-01-04 Member: 11780Members, NS1 Playtester, Squad Five Silver
    <!--quoteo(post=1713799:date=Jun 24 2009, 11:26 PM:name=derWalter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (derWalter @ Jun 24 2009, 11:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why is this nstr NOT FREE?
    what was the reason for this decision?

    cheatcoders? or is it your MONEY now?
    (wich, indeed, we as community made possible in both ways you got it)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Why should it be free? They have all right to make a game they like and price it as they wish. Christ, you got free NS1, which is like super loads of work.
  • duxdux Tea Lady Join Date: 2003-12-14 Member: 24371Members, NS2 Developer
    NS2TR isn't free because NS2 is a commercial game with full time developers on it. We need to pay our bills, like.
  • TriggermanTriggerman Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited June 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1713815:date=Jun 24 2009, 05:07 PM:name=dux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dux @ Jun 24 2009, 05:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713815"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2TR isn't free because NS2 is a commercial game with full time developers on it. We need to pay our bills, like.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    QFT.

    It's not like NS does not deserve the extra money for the huge effort they put into a free mod years ago.
    That's how I reason it at least. I would have easily paid for the mod back then... I'm just doing it now, years and years later; and hoping they'll forgive me for not doing so earlier.

    Also, money pays the bills, it's understandable.
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    I already said this above but I guess I'll say it again:

    We're planning on giving out the tools for free eventually. Right now though we need smaller amounts of people using them as they aren't going to be "finished" when we release the first version of them to you.

    If you don't want to play NS2 but DO want the tools, you can wait until the game is done at which point we will most likely give out the tools far and wide.
  • SuperflySuperfly Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3485Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1713847:date=Jun 24 2009, 09:17 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Jun 24 2009, 09:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I already said this above but I guess I'll say it again:We're planning on giving out the tools for free eventually. Right now though we need smaller amounts of people using them as they aren't going to be "finished" when we release the first version of them to you. If you don't want to play NS2 but DO want the tools, you can wait until the game is done at which point we will most likely give out the tools far and wide.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Whoa déjà vu, it seems like I recently read this somewhere else (in this same thread)...


    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not about paying for access to tools - we're pre-selling the game, and one of the perks of that is EARLY access to the tools. The first version of them could be rough and the tools will not be perfect. We need to get them in front of a small number of people first, so we can take feedback and grow the tools along with your desires as well. We are advocates of this process instead of spending longer and trying to get them just right before releasing them, only to find out that they don't work nearly as well as we expect. We think this is the way to go!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  • Raza.Raza. Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25663Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1713851:date=Jun 25 2009, 04:26 AM:name=Superfly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Superfly @ Jun 25 2009, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whoa déjà vu, it seems like I recently read this somewhere else (in this same thread)...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Seems like you didn't read the first sentence, though. :)

    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I already said this above [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  • SuperflySuperfly Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3485Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1713854:date=Jun 24 2009, 10:14 PM:name=Razagal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Razagal @ Jun 24 2009, 10:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seems like you didn't read the first sentence, though. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I read it, I just thought it could not hurt to repeat a few more times... ;)
  • obsidobsid Join Date: 2003-09-16 Member: 20909Members
    Dont worry Flayra, we understand :).
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1713799:date=Jun 25 2009, 04:26 AM:name=derWalter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (derWalter @ Jun 25 2009, 04:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why is this nstr NOT FREE?
    what was the reason for this decision?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm still not sure how people can begin to, let alone continue to, think like this.
  • GISPGISP Battle Gorge Denmark Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
    <i>this new server is up and running and faster than over! I hope we're ready to handle tons of traffic.</i>
    Faster then <b>OVER</b>...
    Shouldnt it be <b>EVER</b>?
  • 1mannARMEE1mannARMEE Join Date: 2008-09-23 Member: 65064Members
    Its okay that way "Faster than over" sounds way better.
  • anarlandanarland Join Date: 2009-06-25 Member: 67927Members
    edited June 2009
    Oder ok :)
    bit I did not receive my key ...
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    edited June 2009
    When you look at it, Unreal Engine? You have to have the game or a relevant Unreal 3 engine game to make any use of them. Hammer? That's solely Half-Life related so again you'd want to buy Half-Life to use it. Half-Life 2? You have to buy Half-Life 2 to get those tools because again, it's only dependancy is the Half-Life 2 engine games.

    So... by deduction paying for the NS2 tools, on a new engine, which currently only supports NS2 isn't something people should be raving about. It does help prevent piracy and the tools are useless without the game; so why would you want to download the tools without the game at this point in time? I can't see the whole hoo-har over UWE being industry standard, considering the dependancy too it makes sense from a consumer standpoint that the tools are packaged with the game, payable or not.

    EDIT: Also you generally pay for development tools in every game, Crysis, Farcry 2, Half-Life 2, Unreal 3 & other said engine related games you buy you get the tools with. Less whine more thanks, yeah?
  • badtripbadtrip Join Date: 2008-07-24 Member: 64689Members
    Oh nice I can't wait for the tools! It'll be fun to see what kind of stuff people will do with just what they release. I hope there's a little Lua stuff or just the base not the actual game code even though it's not finished so we can practise a little!
  • kingmobkingmob Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3650Members, Constellation
    This latest news entry pushed me over the edge
    I just preordered.

    I wait patiently for the tools...
    ...then the alpha
    ...then the beta
    ...then OMG

    PS: Can I have an all green skulk skin for preordering (or something as cool).
  • linfosomalinfosoma Join Date: 2009-05-28 Member: 67523Members
    I don't see the reason to release the tools for free at all really.
    As far as I know nobody has done that before.

    I guess that it would allow more people to work on extra content for the game, but who would want to do that without the actual game to test their own content anyway?
    UWE spent a lot of their own money making these tools and it seems unfair to release them free of charge.

    Anyway, will you guys consider selling the license of your engine in the future?
  • derWalterderWalter Join Date: 2008-10-29 Member: 65323Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1713802:date=Jun 24 2009, 09:32 PM:name=Superfly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Superfly @ Jun 24 2009, 09:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713802"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is free, it is just being given out sooner to those who pre-order.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    oh, didnt know that its fix now...

    but its brainf**k, saying :" We did this a looong time ago with the NS Technology Release and it worked out fantastically. Of the 20 maps that ended up in NS1, well over half were from the community! Right now we're only giving out this stuff to those that pre-ordered (the NSTR was free for everyone) but we hope to give out the NS2 tools for free to everyone in the future."

    because it says, last time it worked soooo well, so this time we give it only for MONEY!

    what kind of ppl i spent my money here?
    if i had knewn that the dont want to live their (and much of us!) dream, i have waited for a crack and played with friends over vpn
    and hacked servers...

    i hate ppl salivating only for MONEY... live is not about it?
    thx to all the ppl who lived that way, so now my country will rise the salex tax up to 22%...

    its a nice future im looking in right now... i thought the uw team is out of the szene,
    with sozial and sufficient educated members... but at the moment it seems like i was wrong :|

    and first i was so happy that some good guys did it, but now it starts. money money money.

    ns2 so a good game, it will sell so good and they will make so much money without
    pressing every drop of money outa it.


    yeah, in 10 yeahrs uw became ea2.



    if you read till this line, congratulations, i know my english suxx hard ^^
    but think twice before you answer. i will not answer to personal flaming!
    keept topic straight and react wisely constructive to my criticism,
    like i've done!

    if you dont understand some parts, read again. i cant perform better@english, sry dudes ;)
  • ComproxComprox *chortle* Canada Join Date: 2002-01-23 Member: 7Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    Sheesh, there are better and nicer ways to put your points. To explain the difference:

    NSTR worked since NS was a free game, there was no restriction to anyone who owned HL from playing it. But, it was limited to people who owned HL from using it. In this case, Valve were the people limiting who could run it since NS was built for free on top of it.

    Now with NS2 they have their own engine, so just like every single other developer out there, they are limiting the tools to people who own the game. Kinda pointless for someone who doesnt own it to have the tools since they would not be able to test or use them. The NSTR worked since everyone already had the engine (goldsrc) and could test right away without the game. Here only the people who ordered will have access making it sensible to release it to them first.
  • SuperflySuperfly Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3485Members, Constellation
    edited June 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1713994:date=Jun 25 2009, 04:42 PM:name=derWalter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (derWalter @ Jun 25 2009, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->oh, didnt know that its fix now...but its brainf**k, saying :&quot; We did this a looong time ago with the NS Technology Release and it worked out fantastically. Of the 20 maps that ended up in NS1, well over half were from the community! Right now we're only giving out this stuff to those that pre-ordered (the NSTR was free for everyone) but we hope to give out the NS2 tools for free to everyone in the future.&quot;because it says, last time it worked soooo well, so this time we give it only for MONEY!what kind of ppl i spent my money here?if i had knewn that the dont want to live their (and much of us!) dream, i have waited for a crack and played with friends over vpnand hacked servers...i hate ppl salivating only for MONEY... live is not about it?thx to all the ppl who lived that way, so now my country will rise the salex tax up to 22%...its a nice future im looking in right now... i thought the uw team is out of the szene,with sozial and sufficient educated members... but at the moment it seems like i was wrong :|and first i was so happy that some good guys did it, but now it starts. money money money.ns2 so a good game, it will sell so good and they will make so much money withoutpressing every drop of money outa it.yeah, in 10 yeahrs uw became ea2.if you read till this line, congratulations, i know my english suxx hard ^^but think twice before you answer. i will not answer to personal flaming!keept topic straight and react wisely constructive to my criticism,like i've done!if you dont understand some parts, read again. i cant perform better@english, sry dudes ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You do realize that NS1 was a free MOD for Half-Life, therefore the map making tools were given out by Valve not Unknownworlds. The "free" technical release was to a group of mappers in the community and it was simply an early look at the NS1 MOD that was being developed and given away for free. You do also realize that you could not have used this "free" technical release without paying Valve 40.00 for Half-Life right?

    So what exactly is your point? Are you upset because UWE is charging money for their game, tools, and access to an early release?

    Or are you just trolling?

    -------------------

    Darn you Comprox and you lightning fast typing skills...
  • PhlashPhlash Join Date: 2008-02-18 Member: 63674Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1713994:date=Jun 25 2009, 05:42 PM:name=derWalter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (derWalter @ Jun 25 2009, 05:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what kind of ppl i spent my money here?
    if i had knewn that the dont want to live their (and much of us!) dream, i have waited for a crack and played with friends over vpn
    and hacked servers...

    i hate ppl salivating only for MONEY... live is not about it?
    thx to all the ppl who lived that way, so now my country will rise the salex tax up to 22%...

    its a nice future im looking in right now... i thought the uw team is out of the szene,
    with sozial and sufficient educated members... but at the moment it seems like i was wrong :|

    and first i was so happy that some good guys did it, but now it starts. money money money.

    ns2 so a good game, it will sell so good and they will make so much money without
    pressing every drop of money outa it.

    yeah, in 10 yeahrs uw became ea2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you think Flayra is doing this for the money you're crazy. He has to pay his bills like each and every one of us and at the same time the UWE team has been incredibly generous with their development information and technologies. Really, they deserve to make some money off of this hard work. I'm surprised they would even consider giving away the tools to be honest, but that's just the kind of guys they are. They are charging you $20 dollars for what could shape up to be a GotY contender if things work out the way they should. Limiting the number of people with the tools is a wise decision, as it will lower the amount of "noise" generated from people having issues with the software. Plus, the people who are going to make the most content are those that are anticipating the game the most, i.e. those members of the community that have already purchased the game.

    Also, complaining about them wanting money and then letting them know that you'd rather crack their game isn't exactly the best way to make friends on their OWN forum for their OWN game filled with fans of that game pal.
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1713998:date=Jun 25 2009, 04:55 PM:name=Superfly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Superfly @ Jun 25 2009, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1713998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or are you just trolling?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Either a Troll, or mentally deficient.

    Not much difference really.
Sign In or Register to comment.