What does the Scoreboard look like?
lilboy98
Join Date: 2009-05-15 Member: 67414Members
Join Date: 2009-05-15 Member: 67414Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A very important question relating to teamplay</div>In the past and up 'till now, FPS scoreboards often show Kill, Death, and Ping.
But when I first started playing TF2, I noticed their scoreboard wasn't like this. It only showed the player's 'Score' and Ping, while all the details of what makes up that score can be only be seen by their own players.
What did this mean? It meant I stopped looking at the scoreboard and focused more on winning in the scenarios, and less trying to get the best K:D ratio.
In the past when I played Counter-Strike, the K:D ratio was the guage of a player's skills that was commonly used, and not how much of a teamplayer they are. This lead to much 'You suck.', 'GTFO.', 'Learn to aim.', and so on... and more importantly, players stopped completing the scenarios set out, i.e., rescuing the hostages or planting the bomb, but there was SOME incentive since they gave money.
I believe this may also be the problem with Combat in NS1. Some players just like to boost their E-ego with their superior killing skills and this causes new players feel they really just suck because they can't get the same K:D ratio. I'm guilty of doing it, too. I joined Combat servers just to see how much I can kill and compare it to my death rate to 'measure' my 'skill'. (But I played a lot of Vanilla, too!)
But when I first started playing TF2, I noticed their scoreboard wasn't like this. It only showed the player's 'Score' and Ping, while all the details of what makes up that score can be only be seen by their own players.
What did this mean? It meant I stopped looking at the scoreboard and focused more on winning in the scenarios, and less trying to get the best K:D ratio.
In the past when I played Counter-Strike, the K:D ratio was the guage of a player's skills that was commonly used, and not how much of a teamplayer they are. This lead to much 'You suck.', 'GTFO.', 'Learn to aim.', and so on... and more importantly, players stopped completing the scenarios set out, i.e., rescuing the hostages or planting the bomb, but there was SOME incentive since they gave money.
I believe this may also be the problem with Combat in NS1. Some players just like to boost their E-ego with their superior killing skills and this causes new players feel they really just suck because they can't get the same K:D ratio. I'm guilty of doing it, too. I joined Combat servers just to see how much I can kill and compare it to my death rate to 'measure' my 'skill'. (But I played a lot of Vanilla, too!)
Comments
But when I first started playing TF2, I noticed their scoreboard wasn't like this. It only showed the player's 'Score' and Ping, while all the details of what makes up that score can be only be seen by their own players.
What did this mean? It meant I stopped looking at the scoreboard and focused more on winning in the scenarios, and less trying to get the best K:D ratio.
In the past when I played Counter-Strike, the K:D ratio was the guage of a player's skills that was commonly used, and not how much of a teamplayer they are. This lead to much 'You suck.', 'GTFO.', 'Learn to aim.', and so on... and more importantly, players stopped completing the scenarios set out, i.e., rescuing the hostages or planting the bomb, but there was SOME incentive since they gave money.
I believe this may also be the problem with Combat in NS1. Some players just like to boost their E-ego with their superior killing skills and this causes new players feel they really just suck because they can't get the same K:D ratio. I'm guilty of doing it, too. I joined Combat servers just to see how much I can kill and compare it to my death rate to 'measure' my 'skill'. (But I played a lot of Vanilla, too!)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think if NS2 has a sufficient amount of teamplay required to win then the community will set the standard for a player on its own. That is, if a player sucks, the commander will likely not send them off alone on a secret mission and will try to get him to bunch up with other players on his team. Likewise, a players own teammates will likely comment on how much a player is (or isn't) being a team player. I think having Kills and Death in the scoreboard does give everyone a "read" on how balanced their team is and it allows them to cover up any weaknesses they may have.
NS1 required lots of strategy and teamwork to get anything done (this included Combat, regardless of what the naysayers think). Included in this strategy however were tactics that did not specifically need the team to carry out effectively, but they needed a skilled individual who knew when to shoot and when to stay silent and hidden. Commanders would probably gauge this somewhat by the K/D ratio from the scoreboard. The K/D ratio also allows a Commander, as mentioned, to coordinate his team more effectively giving him the opportunity to send out evenly matched teams of 2+ people out for res nodes or to secure a hive location.
Aside from the strategy/teamwork point of view, as mentioned elsewhere on the forums, seeing how good other players are doing gives someone the desire to improve thier own skills. In my initial start with Counter Strike, I was absolutely horrible. By watching other more skilled players you pick up things quite fast. You want to be as good as them and sooner or later your ratio will increase with that your capacity to help your team also increases. Teamwork involves more than just "sticking with the team", often it involves protecting the least skilled player (who might be carrying a vital piece of gameplay like a flag or bomb) or hanging back while the rest of your team rushes to the objective to hold off the enemies advancement.
One thing I didn't like very much was the "points" system in NS1 though. 9 times out of 10 the commander was always at the top and it had no real purpose, afaic.
I feel that the more info the better, and fun. Although, it might be because I'm an old quake 3 player, where I'm used to see how many armors, mega healths, total damage done / recieved and accuracy for different weapons, etc.
Now, most of this stuff is useless for ns, but I'd still like to see some different information on the scoreboard, I'm just too tired to list anything :D!
peace!
All to their own Team of course.
Player A | HMG | 300/2 60 | 1 | 100 | 80
Name | Weapon | Ammo/Clip Pistol | Welder Icon lit | HP | Armor
Player B | Gorge | Chamber Icons or Upgrade Icons | 90% | 80
Name | Creature | When no Upgr. selected show Chambers | Health | Res
perhaps it also tells the com who to drop equipment for... although that's a poor indicator to go by since when someone dies, someone else gets the gun... o i hope we can get dual lmg and dual pistols in ns2... dual welders <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> dual knives xD
Deaths on your team would help the other team. But I don't think you'd need a KD ratio on your scoreboard to know whether the other team is doing better than you or not. I think scores can be a good reflection already.
All to their own Team of course.
Player A | HMG | 300/2 60 | 1 | 100 | 80
Name | Weapon | Ammo/Clip Pistol | Welder Icon lit | HP | Armor
Player B | Gorge | Chamber Icons or Upgrade Icons | 90% | 80
Name | Creature | When no Upgr. selected show Chambers | Health | Res<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I’d prefer to be more realistic..
marines :
like : do not show how many ammo a soldier has left, but why not an icon "need ammo" if this marine asked for it. Idem for health points and armor. Or let it be only for the comm.
Showing weapons and welders, why not.
aliens :
creature : of course
upgr selected, why not, kind of like showing weapons of marines.
health : only for gorges ?
res : of course
For the K/D ratio, i think it should be shown (at least in co maps).
And the thing TF2 and L4D didn’t have : mute – unmute player
I am actually glad they removed that from the scoreboard in TF2/L4D. It was a kind of cute way of implementing it in HL, but it meant that you couldn't pop up the scoreboard and act normally due to it stealing the mouse/mouse clicks. I much prefer having the mute system via the regular menu.
Deaths on your team would help the other team. But I don't think you'd need a KD ratio on your scoreboard to know whether the other team is doing better than you or not. I think scores can be a good reflection already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really hate that style... it's like in the hl2 mod Insurgency... it's the same way.... a pointless score and the only one that checks a score is the person associated with it... because they want to know their body count. Luckily at the end of the round you can press the score key and finally get access to such information.
Scores are so pointless... KD is the only useful information... especially when checking on the performance of your teammates... I mean you cannot look at a random score to determine which team is leading in kills/deaths...
If it's just going to be a pointless score number, (like in mario... "o look more pointless points")... then we don't need a scoreboard at all.
if you don't include kills/deaths, then you'll need to at least replace it with a ranking system so players can, somehow see your performance
Being able to control and learn the game through little subtle features like that is enjoyable for me, I'd hate so see too many of those options go.
In some teamplay games K/D is all that matters and in others it doesn't matter at all. NS is neither of these. It is important, and it should be shown, but it's not <i>the</i> most important player attribute.
<itsthefutureargument>
The Weapons have an Ammocounter.
Telemetry would allow the Marines to access the Status of his Mates
</itsthefutureargument>
I'd like to show the Screenshot of the Scene in Aliens 2 I'm reffering to, but I don't have the Movie handy nor can I find a Shot on the Net.
Gee, if someone wants information they'll be happy if it shows, if they don't want it they won't look. And if they whine about it past NS experience has shown them wrong.
- Res accumulated/spent ratio
- K/D ratio
Additionally for commanders:
- Orders followed
So in the above if you'd accumulated 100 res and spent 50 you'd have a res ratio of 100/50 = 2. If you'd spent all the rest you'd accumulated you'd have a ratio of 1. So the more res someone's wh*ring the higher the ratio.
The Kill/Death ratio is pretty obvious, the higher the number the better the player is at killing and not dying!
I don't think the fast pace itself makes it necessary to minimize the scoreboard info. You can absorb a lot of info from the board as long as you know what to look for and how to interpret it.
Of course that doesn't mean that the scoreboard should be littered with completely useless information. Highlighting the most important statistics might be a good idea too.
I'd like to see
-an accumulated score comprised of
-kills (+1)
-assists (+1)
-10% of a structure built (marines or aliens) (+1)
-structure destroyed (+2)
-key structure destroyed (CC or Hive) (+10)
-and so on. Notice how the more important tasks that are working towards winning are worth more points.
-ping
-loadout: evolution type, current main weapon (marines), current armor type, evolution upgrades (if they can fit somehow with mini-icons)
-names (duh)
-clan emblems? (if a clan system is supported)
Those are the main points that come to mind.
Side-note: For those saying that points are just points, take a look at the achievements system for Xbox360. They're just points, but people like them because it shows that they've done something that has the console recognize them for. Strange isn't it? A machine can make people feel good by praising them for their actions.
Points
Kills
Death
Main Weapon (as icon)
welder (as icon)
Status (Death, Reinforcing)
Ping
ALIENS
Points
Kills
Death
Life form (as icon)
RES
Status (Death, Reinforcing)
Ping
<!--quoteo(post=1712506:date=Jun 16 2009, 11:31 AM:name=lilboy98)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lilboy98 @ Jun 16 2009, 11:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1712506"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to see
-an accumulated score comprised of
-kills (+1)
-assists (+1)
-10% of a structure built (marines or aliens) (+1)
-structure destroyed (+2)
-key structure destroyed (CC or Hive) (+10)
-and so on. Notice how the more important tasks that are working towards winning are worth more points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
-Point for assists is KEY! I aprove
-I'd say +1 point for every X seconds of build time or X amount of build HP build. So that building the quickest/weakest structures yield about 1.5 or 2 points. While heavier structures will give like 3 or 4 points.
Just for fun...
For Marines also:
-every 100 (or X) armor units welded (+1 point)
-if building makes a lone kill assists should go to the builder.
-Commander +1 point for every structure dropped that is completed.
-extra points for defending rt's under construction (backup).
etc
For Aliens
-for every X (200?) amount of healed hitpoints (+1 point)
-Gorge +1 point for every structure dropped that is completed (plus around 1.5 to 4 more points for building it)
-Aliens get bonus points for kills made near a hive under construction.
-etc
ALSO
Steam (or steam-style) Achievement are a MUST! I will check out if there are any threads on this...
You don't win or lose based on the number of kills you have, you win or lose by working together with your team. Ultimately, that's all that matters. Who cares if you die 15 times trying to get a PG up next to the hive? Are you a worse player then person who camped in the end of a hallway, killing skulks as they came by? I'd rather have the first player on my team, I don't know about you.
So, get rid of all the scores on the scoreboard. Do something crazy like.. sorting it by name, or time they joined the team. You could still show ping and what equipment/class someone is, but get rid of the score entirely.
I'd like to see
-an accumulated score comprised of
-kills (+1)
-assists (+1)
-10% of a structure built (marines or aliens) (+1)
-structure destroyed (+2)
-key structure destroyed (CC or Hive) (+10)
-and so on. Notice how the more important tasks that are working towards winning are worth more points.
-ping
-loadout: evolution type, current main weapon (marines), current armor type, evolution upgrades (if they can fit somehow with mini-icons)
-names (duh)
-clan emblems? (if a clan system is supported)
Those are the main points that come to mind.
Side-note: For those saying that points are just points, take a look at the achievements system for Xbox360. They're just points, but people like them because it shows that they've done something that has the console recognize them for. Strange isn't it? A machine can make people feel good by praising them for their actions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like your idea, I think it should be like this, score is the best way to combine many aspects of the game. K/D ratio doesn't mean much if you ask me. It is simply the amount of kills over the amount of deaths. A player with a lower K/D could have contributed to the team's victory a lot more than a player with a high K/D ratio. Just because you have the best K/D ratio it doesn't mean that you are the best player, but if we are using a score system (which takes in consideration K/D ratio) then everything about a player can be reflected in that score and hence the player on top of the list will truly be the best (or at least very close to the best)
The idea of completely removing scores is an interesting idea... I think UWE should do some experiments during their beta testing by having sessions without scores and sessions with scores to see how the players react.
But by removing scores, there can be no ranking system for the players who like to climb ladders, and it'll also be harder to have an idea of how a certain player is doing in the match unless you follow that player the whole time.
You don't win or lose based on the number of kills you have, you win or lose by working together with your team. Ultimately, that's all that matters. Who cares if you die 15 times trying to get a PG up next to the hive? Are you a worse player then person who camped in the end of a hallway, killing skulks as they came by? I'd rather have the first player on my team, I don't know about you.
So, get rid of all the scores on the scoreboard. Do something crazy like.. sorting it by name, or time they joined the team. You could still show ping and what equipment/class someone is, but get rid of the score entirely.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The scoreboard creates a relationship between players on a team and players on opposing teams. It builds the narrative that's so important in games. It's irrelevant in competitive matches where both teams already know each other well, but on public servers it really does make a difference when you see one player (the top one, maybe) killing you again and again, you get a rivalry, you feel emotional response to your in-game behavior. TF2 really has a good scoreboard in that regard, with the dominations and revenges.
I never look at the TF2 scoreboard except when I NEED to rely on other players. For instance, if I am a medic, I look at the guys with the highest scores, and generally I am safe to uber them. Likewise, the comm should see the players with the highest scores and know those guys should get upgrades first. If you've played TF2, you would know kills are the fastest way to rack up points, but completing other side stuff is what puts you at the top. In NS2, sure you can take down multiple skulks, but if you aren't doing an objective, then you are worthless. Now if you are on some godlike rampage, your score will reflect that and your alien genocide is most likely contributing to the team (and thus a higher score, and thus you get upgrades).
Like the OP said, K/D will do nothing put continue people checking there ratio constantly, and maybe even straying from an objective in order to get an easy kill so their numbers go up. Scores allow people to just go "oh, I either need to get skilled like Player X and kill a bunch of stuff (which for the player, may not be possible), or I can contribute to the team and raise my score"
So scoreboard contains Name, ping, perhaps loadout, and then percentage of hits, percentage of time building, percentage of time in the respawn queue, and given that there's been hints of multiple commanders, percentage of time in a command chair.
For aliens, same type of thing, Name, ping, form, evolutions, percentage of hits on marines, percentage of time in respawn, percentage of time tearing down buildings.
K:D IMO sucks because it often doesn't acknowledge damage done, and damage done doesn't tend to acknowledge different loadouts, or other tasks.
Yes, simply because there's a standard; an expectation. First person shooters - hell, any competitive/cooperative online multiplayer game - should have scoreboards. It looks bad for NS2 if it doesn't even have a scoreboard. You get in-game and people are going to be like, uh how do I access the scoreboard? Someone tells them there isn't one, and they'll be very disappointed if not pissed off outright.