The Motion Age
Geminosity
:3 Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Members
:3 Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Natal vs Sony Glowsticks</div>Hi folks! Keeping up to date on the E3 stuff?
What's everyone think of the new toys from Sony and Microsoft?
Natal:
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50184" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50184</a>
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50037" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50037</a>
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50184" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50184</a>
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-lionhead-milo/50015" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-lionhead-milo/50015</a>
Sony Glowsticks:
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-playstation-3/50276" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-playstation-3/50276</a>
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-playstation-3/50277" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-playstation-3/50277</a>
Project Natal impresses the heck out of me and I keep thinking of things that it could do (like improving NPC interaction in RPG by using your facial expressions and voice, doing hand signals to get your counter-terrorist unit into position and then barking orders for voice recognition to pick up once the explosions start going off, fake 3D depth by detecting the position of your head, etc)
The Sony Glowsticks looked fun but I felt sorry for them after Natal. Some people have argued that having buttons on the sticks makes them better than no controller but I'm not convinced, some think they're more accurate but nothing in the Natal shows really allowed them to show off precision.
<b>edit:</b> incase anyone's wondering I call them 'sony glowsticks' because I don't remember them giving them a name or anything so I just say what I see :p
What's everyone think of the new toys from Sony and Microsoft?
Natal:
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50184" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50184</a>
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50037" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50037</a>
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50184" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-project-natal/50184</a>
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-lionhead-milo/50015" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-lionhead-milo/50015</a>
Sony Glowsticks:
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-playstation-3/50276" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-playstation-3/50276</a>
<a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-playstation-3/50277" target="_blank">http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-playstation-3/50277</a>
Project Natal impresses the heck out of me and I keep thinking of things that it could do (like improving NPC interaction in RPG by using your facial expressions and voice, doing hand signals to get your counter-terrorist unit into position and then barking orders for voice recognition to pick up once the explosions start going off, fake 3D depth by detecting the position of your head, etc)
The Sony Glowsticks looked fun but I felt sorry for them after Natal. Some people have argued that having buttons on the sticks makes them better than no controller but I'm not convinced, some think they're more accurate but nothing in the Natal shows really allowed them to show off precision.
<b>edit:</b> incase anyone's wondering I call them 'sony glowsticks' because I don't remember them giving them a name or anything so I just say what I see :p
Comments
The Natal thing is pretty much an updated eye toy + voice recognition. The demos actually showed off how imprecise it is with the painting. The really impressive thing in that demo wasn't the controller, it was the Virtual Human. (That's what the kid is called, in the world of research.)
The implementation of a Virtual Human is pretty progressive, but the rest of the control scheme is clunky. The voice recognition we didn't get a great showing of, as there was no way to determine how accurately it can pick up and understand words from the demo. The guy could have trained beforehand to ensure that he didn't screw up, and the video looked pretty staged.
The motion stick (glowsticks) are like the eye toy + wiimote. Not only that, but it appears to be pretty accurate. All the things the wiimote promised seem like they can be accomplished. The little bit of augmented reality was a nice touch though really doesn't have any application to the games that would be created.
I really liked the bow and arrow demo for the glowsticks. I liked how you have to actually pull back, and I like how it zooms in with the power level. A very nice interface.
One demo of it was playing burnout paradise in which you steer with your hands like they're on a steering wheel, move your feet to accelerate/deccelerate and pump your fist like you're changing gears to switch to overdrive. Initially all the reviewers over-compensated but predictably careered into walls. The 'helper' is quoted as saying "trust in the technology" and when they started doing normal motions it worked extremely well, supposedly picking up even small movements accurately.
Natal Hands-on Impressions:
<a href="http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/e3-project-natal-hands-on" target="_blank">http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/e3-project-natal-hands-on</a>
<a href="http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/989/989269p1.html" target="_blank">http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/989/989269p1.html</a>
<a href="http://e3.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/696082/Microsoft-Natal-Hands-on-Impressions.html" target="_blank">http://e3.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/69608...mpressions.html</a>
<a href="http://uk.xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/lionhead-mylo-project/989285p1.html" target="_blank">http://uk.xbox360.gamespy.com/xbox-360/lio...t/989285p1.html</a>
Also, this is going to embarrass people even more. Yes, volumes have been written on how ridiculous you feel when holding a tiny plastic guitar while playing Guitar Hero, but imagine how you'd look doing the motions WITHOUT holding the guitar. The first time somebody walks in on you sitting in your chair acting like you're driving a car (and trying very hard to resist making "brrrm, brrmmm" sounds with your lips), the blushing will be legendary.
Interesting. Waiting for the games.
It took the industry most of a console generation to start coming up with worthwhile concepts for 3D environments. Looking at the Wii, I'm not any more optimistic about motion-sensing hardware.
That said, if I was in a position to build products for Natal, I'd be one happy camper.
That is, do we discuss the new Marios here?
That is, do we discuss the new Marios here?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Meh, I say go for it. Proper etiquette probably would say you make an E3 thread, which honestly should have been started.
Come on people, you're my only source of news! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Mario? uh... I guess you can talk about other E3 stuff but I figured people might've been a bit more excited about this stuff than they are :/
I mean, I'm kinda hyped about it and after reading Johnny Lee's log at <a href="http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/2009/06/project-natal.html" target="_blank">http://procrastineering.blogspot.com/2009/...ject-natal.html</a> and learning about the tech behind Natal I'm fairly o.O
It's basically a camera combined with a infra-red 3D scanner. It uses time of flight calculations combined with the infra-red scanner to create full 3D imagery and extract objects (like the player) from it before modelling them into skeletal structures. The stuff it's using is leagues ahead of even the kinds of things they're tinkering with in academic circles.
Again, you don't have to play just boxing games with this, you could easily combine this crazy tech with normal pad play. Imagine playing split screen with a friend and Natal would make sure your side of the split is the correct one; no more going into options or switching pads because you're sitting on the left and your splitscreen is on the right.
Imagine playing fighting games with friends and winner stays on... the system could track who's holding the pad and change gamer profile on the fly as you pass the pad so you can keep personal records. Johnny Lee's head tracking experiments could be used to make faux 3D. With use of facial reading, voice recognition and some limited AI you could interact with RPG game NPCs much more fluidly (after all you're not going to discuss american politics or protophysics with them, you just want to know where the magic sword is :p ).
The applicational limits of this system go as far as a developer's imagination.
Personally I'd love to play something like zelda with full body... sure I'd be knackered by the end of it but it'd be fun. This is the biggest step towards decent Virtual Reality we've had in years :3
See, I really like the sound of the tech. <i>Really</i> do. Hell, I'm working at a Fraunhofer right now, I'm contractually obliged to do so.
My problem is that I have seen a lot of controlled-environment VR-demos, and they all a) tended to rely on rather specific conditions, and b) worked well as a tech demo, but did not necessarily add to the product's usability.
I can see a use for comfort features like the player recognition you mention. I can see a limited use for gesture-based commands (limited because users tend to appreciate tangibility and haptic feedback). I can not see a use for heavy bodily activity outside fitness titles (which the last years have shown sell well, but don't get used all that much - not a good foundation for future growth there). I can not see a use for improvised control elements like that picture in the Milo demo (they break immersion).
As for speech control: If they <i>only</i> promise emotion detection, as I read on Eurogamer, I'm very interested in seeing how they want to implement those controls ("Grunt now, please!"), and if they promise speech detection, as I've watched with Milo, I'll believe it when I saw it work in an uncontrolled environment with a heavily accented user.
Sorry, but the Cloud Computing demo at GDC ate all my unqualified enthusiasm for the year <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
I'm completely uninterested. I just want to sit with a pad and shoot some muthas. The lack of haptics (in the case of Natal), and having to gurn at a camera, would totally ruin my experience.
It's incredibly impressive tech though, will be interesting to see what can be done with it. I just can't see myself ever bothering with it.
Soon our houses will be made of LCD screens and motion sensors+ID tags! And VR stations at every home!
Check this vid of a guy explaining use of lesser head-tracking equipment in Arma II for an example...
<div align='center'><center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9wXx3vMy_AQ"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9wXx3vMy_AQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ" target="_blank">Head Tracking in FPS</a></div>
The looking around thing is nice, the leaning thing? Much more useful and as you can see the guy isn't exactly moving around a lot.
But I just can't be bothered. I'm a very, very lazy person, and I just want to sit with a pad. I don't want to move, not even little head movements. I just want to veg on a sofa and shoot geometric shapes or drift around corners.
Sorry, when I say "why do hardcore gamers care?", I assume they're operating under a comparable degree of preferred idleness. If that's not the case then yeah, there's a lot to get excited over.
Didnt anyone else find the Wii vitality sensor hilarious? I dont know what they were thinking.
I think I'll keep my mouse and keyboard.
Natal: Yeah... I'd be more positive if it wasn't for 1 huge thing: This can't work just 80% of the time, 90% of the time, or even 95% of the time. It needs to be perfect 99% to 100% of the time, or it is nigh useless. Not to mention, the coding and processing restraints forced on the console to have to analyze and create a moving bone structure for a human being would restrict it in other ways, and I doubt it could ever be precise enough in this incarnation to notice the difference between a hand holding a gun, or holding a sword- and suddenly, the benefit of buttons enters back into the fold.
Some interesting and detailed hands-on and further explanations for Natal:
<a href="http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/project-natal-video-hands-on-impressions-and-further-details/" target="_blank">http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/project...urther-details/</a>
<a href="http://gizmodo.com/5277954/testing-project-natal-we-touched-the-intangible" target="_blank">http://gizmodo.com/5277954/testing-project...-the-intangible</a>
I'd put up some glowstick hands-on but... there isn't any. That floorshow is all we're getting :/
That being said, there's a HUGE potential for awesome with all of these technologies. Whether or not they pull it off is yet to be seen. For example, Metroid used the Wii awesomely. Some of the other products.... not so much.