Who's Writing the Manual?

TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
in NS2 General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">Just Curious, Really</div>So as part of the nostalgia kick that I and lots of other people are on thanks to the new trailer, I've been reading the <a href="http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/manual-104/introduction.html" target="_blank">incredible 1.04 manual</a> (kindly hosted for us by bry & co). It's awesome, but for the life of me I can't remember who wrote it, which brings me to my question: who's going to write the NS2 manual? Can we expect the same kind of quality, or is it going to be one of those "here is a page of backstory, two screenshots of the UI, all the keybindings, the system requirements, and the credits" manuals that are so popular these days?
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  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
    For the cheaper option I would accept a link to an online manual, considering NS is an online game.

    A Commander Hotkeys reference card would be nice, though, although you could also post this online in a printable format.
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  • BryBry Join Date: 2003-01-23 Member: 12609Members
    I think the problem is we will not see a manual until towards the end of the beta due to the finalisation process. You are not going to write a 30 page manual and then have to delete 6 pages and edit another 12 and add another 4 due to removing/changing features.

    While I do hope we get an excellent manual as before I somehow seem to doubt it. The 1.04 manual really set the scene and got you into the NS world
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  • CrispixCrispix Join Date: 2007-01-10 Member: 59543Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    I always thought there was mention of an in-game tutorial that the Devs were going to work on, so the learning curve isn't too difficult. I'm sure that is what we are all thinking, in terms of when new players will be entering the NS universe. We want them to learn the game efficiently, whereas NS took a bit of difficult understanding to learn the strategy of the game.

    I'm sure we can trust the devs, and they will come up with something great.
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  • HandgrenadesHandgrenades Join Date: 2007-09-19 Member: 62367Members
    I very much doubt the learning curve is going to be any difficult if you've played NS1 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
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  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    I'm guessing it will be <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Main_Page" target="_blank">us</a>.
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  • Dalin SeivewrightDalin Seivewright 0x0000221E Join Date: 2007-10-20 Member: 62685Members, Constellation
    I've always found that in-game tutorials are a great way to learn the basic concepts and having a manual, online or otherwise is an awesome (and informative) way to pass the time. The first thing I always do is read the manual of the games I buy while I'm installing them. Another great system that has seen a lot more use lately is the tool tips that will attempt to identify the action you're doing/trying to do and will display some help accordingly, or will kick in on certain events like taking damage, dying, etc. I think it worked well with NS1 (for the most part...) and was generally a major annoyance, so as with the original, a manual as well as automatic (when you've "learned" enough) would be great.
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  • BadMouthBadMouth It ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titl Join Date: 2004-05-21 Member: 28815Members
    Manuals are useful in mapping out tech trees, general information on aliens, weapon damage and such. Basically the nitty gritty details you can refer back to when not in the middle of a game.
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  • mf-mf- Join Date: 2008-06-17 Member: 64463Members
    I remember in 2002 when NS 1.04 was released, i was like 14 years old at the time and had been banned from the games/internet. I had not even touched NS in game yet, but had installed it and subsequentally read the manual. I read every single page in the huge 1.04 manual, about the alien descriptions, the chambesr ect. Took me about 2 hours and it got me so interested in the game i played it 5 years straight!

    A good NS 2 manual is a must! I loved the level of description in the 1.04 manual, as it wasn't just about what was in the game. It gave descriptive scary descriptions of the aliens ect.
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  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    why don't we take things one step forward and instead of a paper or web page manual
    - how a youtube VIDEO manual ? I've always felt that a slide show / video is much more effective, and less time consuming - you can watch it while the game downloads and installs, then you are ready to rock right away.

    the video would explain
    what all of the controls do, and how to set them up to make the most out of the game for both teams. explained by TSA marine and then Hive mind for aliens.
    how to setup things for performance for video and resolution
    back story etc (could be an old marine or general retelling a story of when he fought in the TSA etc)
    goal of each team
    different strategies
    types of weapons
    etc

    also if it is interesting enough, it can double as advertising for the game <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1709010:date=May 31 2009, 07:25 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ May 31 2009, 07:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1709010"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why don't we take things one step forward and instead of a paper or web page manual
    - how a youtube VIDEO manual ? I've always felt that a slide show / video is much more effective, and less time consuming - you can watch it while the game downloads and installs, then you are ready to rock right away.

    the video would explain
    what all of the controls do, and how to set them up to make the most out of the game for both teams. explained by TSA marine and then Hive mind for aliens.
    how to setup things for performance for video and resolution
    back story etc (could be an old marine or general retelling a story of when he fought in the TSA etc)
    goal of each team
    different strategies
    types of weapons
    etc

    also if it is interesting enough, it can double as advertising for the game <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's a lot more work, considering you'd also need a written reference for people who, say, just need to know what voice chat is bound to by default.
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  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester
    edited May 2009
    I believe Jeff Paris wrote the manual, or at least directed its <i>feeling</i>. The guy behind the official backstory.

    [edit]it's != its
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  • JaneJane Seriously&#33;? Join Date: 2003-07-01 Member: 17835Members, Constellation
    edited May 2009
    {OldF} and / or {TSA} Niteowl did a lot of work on a manual in conjunction with the NSGuides program. I don't know if that ever was implemented or included in that manual but names are listed for who contribued towards finalized product of the last manual.


    Even the origional NS had the in game help thing - which is normally sufficient to begin with ... but a lot of people I'm sure would enjoy reading a manual. Though, as people have mentioned, you'd need a more finalized game before that would really be able to be completed.
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  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--quoteo(post=1708573:date=May 30 2009, 02:36 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ May 30 2009, 02:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1708573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->for the life of me I can't remember who wrote it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Silly Tycho - it was Jeff Paris. He also wrote fan fiction like Six Days in Sanjii. It's all right here in this <a href="http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/manual-104/notes.html" target="_blank">pamphlet</a>.
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  • JAmazonJAmazon Join Date: 2009-02-21 Member: 66503Members
    Maybe instead of a manual like last time they could make a short single player training scenario a la Black Mesa Hazard Course <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
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  • aeroripperaeroripper Join Date: 2005-02-25 Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    edited June 2009
    Just add the backstory into a training map with the words flying into space like the Star Wars intro. Planting mines in random fashion around PGs, learning how to use F4, building OCs, and proper spelling for a few racial slurs /end tutorial. Fogetaboutit!

    EDIT: ... seriously though a system like L4D has for its training would be very handy. They probably don't have time to make a full training map for first release.
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  • ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver
    <!--quoteo(post=1709021:date=Jun 1 2009, 11:29 AM:name=MonsieurEvil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MonsieurEvil @ Jun 1 2009, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1709021"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some words.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What who where when you.

    YOU.

    --Scythe--
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  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    edited June 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1709069:date=Jun 1 2009, 01:25 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Jun 1 2009, 01:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1709069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1709021:date=May 31 2009, 08:29 PM:name=MonsieurEvil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MonsieurEvil @ May 31 2009, 08:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1709021"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Silly Tycho - it was Jeff Paris. He also wrote fan fiction like Six Days in Sanjii. It's all right here in this <a href="http://www.brywright.co.uk/ns/manual-104/notes.html" target="_blank">pamphlet</a>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What who where when you.

    YOU.

    --Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah holy crap, it's MonSe!

    Ontopic: A well maintained wiki would be awesome.
    Even better, a solid tutorial map for both Kharaa and Marines
    Found the old training map thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=90930" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=90930</a>
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  • homicidehomicide Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22451Members
    fact: manuals are self defeating
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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1709170:date=Jun 1 2009, 08:52 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Jun 1 2009, 08:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1709170"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->fact: manuals are self defeating<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't even understand what this means.
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  • homicidehomicide Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22451Members
    They are a horrible way to learn just about anything, especially video games. Players are better off simply playing the game to improve their skills.
    The only exception is purely tabulated information such as hotkeys and statistics - such information NS could fit onto a single page.
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  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Fun fact: Some countries (such as the entire EU) require manuals for electronics products and software. Also, it has been shown that users with limited experience will be very happy to use manuals as reference resources. Sure, it's not going to help homicide, the veteran player much, but I guess the target demographic will be a little broader than that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
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  • homicidehomicide Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22451Members
    I would love to see a VCR manual with narrative backstory on the evolution of the VCR. I also want to see the VCR demographic that LIKES reading manuals.

    If it needs a manual, you're doing it wrong.
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  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited June 2009
    I'm home, amn't I?

    Enjoyment has nothing to do with the issue. Some people are most used to referring to static instructions when learning new processes. They won't like the experience, but it'll enable them to functionally interact with the product. The 1.04 manual was an attempt of wrapping that necessity in an entertaining package. We can now start discussing where it succeeded and where it did not, but I don't see how the existence of that bonus invalidates the concept of the manual itself.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If it needs a manual, you're doing it wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    A beautiful design philosophy, to be sure - as long as you still include a manual, because not every one of your customers is going to be familiar with the concepts you used to define your usability baseline.
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  • WarCowWarCow Join Date: 2003-06-16 Member: 17402Members, Constellation
    I don't think a manual is THAT necessary, everyone with just a little FPS-experience know how to point and shoot/bite. Perhaps just emphasize the special things you need to use in NS: Build, comm, hive sight etc. And even that would be better achieved in-game.

    The manual could focus on creating a really cool story and descriptions of the units/weapons/maps..it could be unspecific on purpose (to avoid changing it before release) in the form of a marine briefing..with limited intel on the alien creatures etc. All you know is what they look like but no idea how much damage they can do and what kind of abilities they got..and the marine weapons are brand new prototypes rushed into service, so you aren't completely sure of their capabilities either.

    There are lots of possibilities <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> I'd love to write parts of it, although i don't know if my English is good enough for that, since i'm not a native speaker.
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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1709206:date=Jun 1 2009, 10:27 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Jun 1 2009, 10:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1709206"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would love to see a VCR manual with narrative backstory on the evolution of the VCR. I also want to see the VCR demographic that LIKES reading manuals.

    If it needs a manual, you're doing it wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If it NEEDS a manual, then yes, your game is probably too complicated. NS doesn't NEED a manual in the same way that nobody NEEDS a diagram to tell them how to put together their model kit; they could simply try every single combination of pieces until they find one that fits. NS <i>should</i> have a manual in the same way that a model kit <i>should</i> have an instruction kit, because it provides a nice way for newbies to learn the game without getting yelled at by people like you who apparently have zero tolerance for someone who doesn't like figuring things out through a process of trial and error which leaves them largely useless or even harmful to their own team. I for one prefer to read at least a FAQ for a multiplayer game before I play so that I don't screw over all my teammates when I'm first playing.
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  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1709213:date=Jun 1 2009, 11:46 AM:name=Nemesis_Zero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nemesis_Zero @ Jun 1 2009, 11:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1709213"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm home, amn't I?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    They're comin' outa the woodwork!
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  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Isn't the phrase supposed to be 'They're comin' outta the ******* walls!!!'

    ?

    Hiya fellas.
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  • Ph0enixPh0enix Join Date: 2002-10-08 Member: 1462Members, Constellation
    Heh...flashback to the ye olde post ripping bunnyhopping by having Hicks and Co bunnyhopping around shooting aliens.

    I digress...Tycho nailed it basically. Should a good game <i>need</i> a manual ? No, it should be intuitive enough you can get by without one. Should it have one anyway ? Yes, because I prefer to do more then just 'get by' when I play a new game. Besides, it should have cool fluffy bits in it and stuff <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester
    edited June 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1709342:date=Jun 1 2009, 08:39 PM:name=MonsieurEvil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MonsieurEvil @ Jun 1 2009, 08:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1709342"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't the phrase supposed to be 'They're comin' outta the ******* walls!!!'

    ?

    Hiya fellas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://www.bizhype.net/laconica/rob/ns_screens/ns_intro.swf" target="_blank">This</a> comes to mind.

    [edit]Also,

    <a href="http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=7914" target="_blank">http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=7914</a>
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  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--quoteo(post=1709693:date=Jun 2 2009, 08:01 PM:name=Rob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rob @ Jun 2 2009, 08:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1709693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.bizhype.net/laconica/rob/ns_screens/ns_intro.swf" target="_blank">This</a> comes to mind.

    [edit]Also,

    <a href="http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=7914" target="_blank">http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=7914</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Lobster made of meat... so true.
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