I pirate stuff mainly because it's often just much easier to pick what you want off the internet than running through the entire city trying to find a discontinued game or a movie that aired three decades ago.
I have to say though, every single game I've ever pirated was not worth the 50-60 euros I would have spend it on in a store. To name the most recent act of piracy of mine: Fallout 3.
I do buy games aswell, don't get me wrong, I just only do it when I'm 100% sure the money won't go to waste. Usually involves reading through 3 dozen reviews of it, discussing it with my friends or getting a hands-on experience of the game.
Okay Hawkeye, you don't pirate music then. Weren't we talking about those "96% of people between the ages of 14-24 [who] download music illegally" though? You're not a part of that group then, and my assumption regarding that was wrong. Everything else stands as I said it.
<!--quoteo(post=1696598:date=Dec 23 2008, 10:32 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Dec 23 2008, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696598"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it's safe to assume that it's because having a large library of music is great, and it's easy and cheap to pirate. "I want this music and I'm not going to buy it in the store or on itunes when I can get it for free on the pirate bay."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Let's not get bogged down with trying to compare the games industry to the music industry on this one. There are several important differences:<ol type='1'><li>Games can basically only be played via a few dedicated devices. Even if there are devices that let you play games on the move, these devices are generally particular in nature. A game for the PSP won't run on a DS or your mobile, and mostly vice versa. Music can be played in a variety of formats, but almost all of those formats are universal: you don't require a 'Sony' brand CD player to listen to a CD album and you don't need an iPod to listen to an mp3 (any mp3 player will do).</li><li>Either as individual tracks or albums, each unit both costs less and has a shorter play duration than a game. Even the shortest games tend to equal the longest albums. Because each track is shorter it's numbers and variety that is valued.</li><li>Music takes up much less space than games, and can be further compressed using free software available online. This also means the wait between beginning a download and enjoying a download is shorter.</li></ol>The one similarity is that both the music industry and the games industry are taking too long to adopt digital distribution methods. Although it is not an excuse for piracy, it is an obvious reason. As long as people can get games more quickly and more readily by pirating versus purchasing, people will pirate.
But some people (Swedes, to be precise) are looking at innovative sales distribution methods, such as Spotify (which has its own thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=105369" target="_blank">here</a>) ---
Anyway, back to the piracy <i>of games</i> discussion! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1696669:date=Dec 24 2008, 10:08 AM:name=frostymoose)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frostymoose @ Dec 24 2008, 10:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didn't read the link in the OP, but if it's missing this, then it's missing one of the most important points of all.
Most of the people who pirate a game probably weren't going to buy it anyways. So that pirated copy doesn't represent a lost sale.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ouch! If only we were playing QI!
Yes it does address it and for me the article proves that this situation can still result in lost sales. Also there is virtually no way of substantiating your claim that 'most people who pirate would not have bought the game'. Furthermore there is no evidence aginst the counter-argument: "of those people you claim would not have bought all of the games they pirate anyway, most of them probably couldn't afford to buy that many 'kleenex' games and just want a free ride". If every person who pirated games was suddenly forced to pay for every game they pirated, they no doubt realise the worth fo their thefts and realise that the main reason they are pirating is because it's free and there is very little consequence.
For me the biggest reason people pirate is because it is easy to do and because they can get away with it. It's not because they have some extenuating circumstance like "I'm poor". People were 'poor' before computers but they didn't go around stealing record players. That's because record players are heavy, and you risked a lot getting caught doing it.
And let's not go overboard with the term 'poor'. There's "I barely have enough to [Edit] <i>put</i> clean clothes on my back and food on the table" and there's "I have to make concessions on luxury items compared to most other people"; the two are not the same. Regardless, neither one of those reasons is a justification for theft. There are plenty of people who are honest and poor, just because you're poor it doesn't mean you have to become a thief to enjoy life. That is a fabrication of today's Western society that seems to think it has a right to everything everyone else has even if they didn't earn it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The future of gaming lies in online authentication ala steam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that still only works if the game is of the online-multiplayer variety. Otherwise the pirated version is still much more convenient.
Crispy, I like what you're saying. I shouldn't have said 'most.' I'll agree there is a loss of sales involved, but the significance of the loss is impossible to say. It may be huge and it may be small, and I'd guess it varies for every title. I can only speak for myself here and say that of the 4 games I can think of that I pirated, I wouldn't have bought any of them. And rightly so because I didn't like 3/4 of them either.
No, it will happen when artists embrace a new concept of compensation for their creative works. Weather it be donation based (as many freeware developers already do it), or just the ego boost from having people enjoy it, or in some other form. It no longer makes sense to many people to pay $40 for something that can be distributed to an infinite number of people at virtually no cost.
It's more likely that game developers switch to a similar approach that creators of free software use: Charge money for something other than the software. Partially, they're already doing it. It wouldn't be a huge difference if you simply cut the initial purchase cost away from existing MMOs. You'd still be charged monthly.
Then there's all the various korean and chinese MMOs. Free to play! ... only somebody has an advantage over you and you don't realise why until you discover the game store where you can buy nice little upgrades for real money.
Frankly, *I* am happy with the current model. Prices could be lower, sure, but I LIKE being able to buy a game and have the financial stuff over and done with. I don't like monthly fees (alas, I am stuck with them), and the idea that someone can pump more money into the game than me and have an advantage by no other virtue is abhorrent to me. Sadly, the old economic models are on their way out, and piracy plays no small role in that. They will be replaced in time. Whatever comes, it'll work better. Whether we will LIKE it is another matter ENTIRELY. And we can't even complain. Gamers, as a whole, are bringing this on themselves.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1696903:date=Dec 30 2008, 11:39 AM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Dec 30 2008, 11:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696903"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, it will happen when artists<b>/record companies get with the ###### times</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fixed.
I actually had a conversation about this with my Dad last night, in relation to music.
Would the industry lose money from my piracy? In a few places, but I do my best to self-correct to that measure. Queens of the Stone Age, Bright Eyes, Utada Hikaru- I've bought their stuff because I thought it was worth my dollar. Most things I download and don't buy I usually just delete afterward anyway.
And then there's <a href="http://www.maxbarry.com/2008/12/29/news.html" target="_blank">this little gem.</a> Like he says, piracy is an issue. And okay, sometimes anti-piracy measures cause a load of trouble for the honest customer, and that's bad enough, but at least there's always that little feeling that "okay, they're not doing it on purpose. They're not out to harm ME, the legitimate customer. I'm just a victim of circumstances." But not with this. This is deliberate. This is hostile. Oh sure, I bet there's a notice somewhere on the DVD case about it, probably in tiny eye-strain print. Doesn't matter. It's a completely reasonable expectation that a DVD plays in a PC. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's a reasonable demand. In Barry's words, "you need to stop this."
They've been doing things like that for ages and its just going to get worse as they struggle in vain to hold on to a distribution market that no longer exists.
That's conjecture. Piracy and alternate channels of distribution are hitting their profits, sure, but it'll take more than a mere statement to convince me that there's no money to be made off DVD sales.
Better. However, while music has stuff like iTunes now, I have yet to see the same for movies. For me, the medium of choice for buying a movie is still the DVD. What are my (legal) alternatives?
Rather an arrogant way of putting "anywhere but the United States," but I'll roll with it anyway. It's worth noting however that Netflix is simply DVD rental. It's a branch of the "movies on DVD" industry.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited January 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1697037:date=Jan 2 2009, 09:35 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jan 2 2009, 09:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697037"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rather an arrogant way of putting "anywhere but the United States," but I'll roll with it anyway. It's worth noting however that Netflix is simply DVD rental. It's a branch of the "movies on DVD" industry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I bet he just doesn't know. The most irritating thing when I go to Canada is that I lose Pandora and Hulu. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> (I go to Canada pretty regularly)
BadMouthIt ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titlJoin Date: 2004-05-21Member: 28815Members
Creators of games spend hours of blood, sweat and tears making something. A lot of effort goes into it and I think they deserve to be compensated fairly for their efforts. Thus, piracy is bad.
The key word there is "fairly". I don't know how it works in the game industry, but in the Movie and Music industries distributors are taking a much much larger slice of the pie than they deserve.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1697079:date=Jan 3 2009, 01:27 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Jan 3 2009, 01:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The key word there is "fairly". I don't know how it works in the game industry, but in the Movie and Music industries distributors are taking a much much larger slice of the pie than they deserve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kinda annoys me when people say this, as usually its the other way around. Just people think, "Well they didn't MAKE the movie", so they don't deserve the biggest cut- even though they took the most risk by paying for it, 90% of the time.
From what I've seen of the way the RIAA labels do things many artists end up in debt to them, even reasonably popular ones. Did you know that Forest Gump was a failure by the studio's accounting? Thanks to that they cheated the original author out of enough royalties that when it came time to make a sequel he wouldn't license it, saying that he could not in good conscience allow money to be wasted on a failure.
Comments
I have to say though, every single game I've ever pirated was not worth the 50-60 euros I would have spend it on in a store. To name the most recent act of piracy of mine: Fallout 3.
I do buy games aswell, don't get me wrong, I just only do it when I'm 100% sure the money won't go to waste. Usually involves reading through 3 dozen reviews of it, discussing it with my friends or getting a hands-on experience of the game.
Most of the people who pirate a game probably weren't going to buy it anyways. So that pirated copy doesn't represent a lost sale.
But some people (Swedes, to be precise) are looking at innovative sales distribution methods, such as Spotify (which has its own thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=105369" target="_blank">here</a>)
---
Anyway, back to the piracy <i>of games</i> discussion! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1696669:date=Dec 24 2008, 10:08 AM:name=frostymoose)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frostymoose @ Dec 24 2008, 10:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1696669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didn't read the link in the OP, but if it's missing this, then it's missing one of the most important points of all.
Most of the people who pirate a game probably weren't going to buy it anyways. So that pirated copy doesn't represent a lost sale.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ouch! If only we were playing QI!
Yes it does address it and for me the article proves that this situation can still result in lost sales. Also there is virtually no way of substantiating your claim that 'most people who pirate would not have bought the game'. Furthermore there is no evidence aginst the counter-argument: "of those people you claim would not have bought all of the games they pirate anyway, most of them probably couldn't afford to buy that many 'kleenex' games and just want a free ride". If every person who pirated games was suddenly forced to pay for every game they pirated, they no doubt realise the worth fo their thefts and realise that the main reason they are pirating is because it's free and there is very little consequence.
For me the biggest reason people pirate is because it is easy to do and because they can get away with it. It's not because they have some extenuating circumstance like "I'm poor". People were 'poor' before computers but they didn't go around stealing record players. That's because record players are heavy, and you risked a lot getting caught doing it.
And let's not go overboard with the term 'poor'. There's "I barely have enough to [Edit] <i>put</i> clean clothes on my back and food on the table" and there's "I have to make concessions on luxury items compared to most other people"; the two are not the same. Regardless, neither one of those reasons is a justification for theft. There are plenty of people who are honest and poor, just because you're poor it doesn't mean you have to become a thief to enjoy life. That is a fabrication of today's Western society that seems to think it has a right to everything everyone else has even if they didn't earn it.
But that still only works if the game is of the online-multiplayer variety. Otherwise the pirated version is still much more convenient.
This whole piracy debate is something that will only end when everything becomes free. Which means never.
Then there's all the various korean and chinese MMOs. Free to play! ... only somebody has an advantage over you and you don't realise why until you discover the game store where you can buy nice little upgrades for real money.
Frankly, *I* am happy with the current model. Prices could be lower, sure, but I LIKE being able to buy a game and have the financial stuff over and done with. I don't like monthly fees (alas, I am stuck with them), and the idea that someone can pump more money into the game than me and have an advantage by no other virtue is abhorrent to me.
Sadly, the old economic models are on their way out, and piracy plays no small role in that. They will be replaced in time. Whatever comes, it'll work better. Whether we will LIKE it is another matter ENTIRELY. And we can't even complain. Gamers, as a whole, are bringing this on themselves.
Fixed.
I actually had a conversation about this with my Dad last night, in relation to music.
Would the industry lose money from my piracy? In a few places, but I do my best to self-correct to that measure. Queens of the Stone Age, Bright Eyes, Utada Hikaru- I've bought their stuff because I thought it was worth my dollar. Most things I download and don't buy I usually just delete afterward anyway.
I bet he just doesn't know.
The most irritating thing when I go to Canada is that I lose Pandora and Hulu. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
(I go to Canada pretty regularly)
Kinda annoys me when people say this, as usually its the other way around. Just people think, "Well they didn't MAKE the movie", so they don't deserve the biggest cut- even though they took the most risk by paying for it, 90% of the time.
Just sayin'.