Marines lose limbs
jeffwats
Join Date: 2008-12-26 Member: 65877Members
Join Date: 2008-12-26 Member: 65877Members
<u>Professional game mode:</u>
No limbs get weakened or bit off. League NS is a game of skill, not chance.
<u>Public game mode:</u>
Area-locational alien attacks. If a skulk bites the limb of a marine, there is a chance (yes, chance, like in TF2) that the limb is either weakened or bit off altogether. Increasing the armor level of the marine decreases the chance of limb damage/loss. Using a medpack heals limbs back together completely.
<b>Arm crippled:</b> Marine can still use all weapons, but accuracy is decreased. Marine’s arm model shows heavy bleeding.
<b>Arm lost:</b> Marine drops primary weapon, pulls out pistol with remaining hand. Shows an animation that would make this obvious to the marine, so they don’t just wonder why their weapon is on the ground.
<b>Leg crippled:</b> Marine limps and moves slower. Marine’s leg model shows heavy bleeding.
<b>Leg lost:</b> Marine falls down, but can still fire primary weapon. Can be dragged to safety by a teammate, but while the teammate is pulling the downed marine, he cannot use his weapon.
<b>Torso/Chest:</b> Normal damage.
<b>Head hit:</b> Critical hit? Possibly 1.5x damage? Might be exploited by ceiling skulks though…
Losing a limb causes damage over time until it is healed with a medkit. This is so abandoning marines is a viable strategy if time/res is tight.
Having disabled limbs could make the marine team more dependent on teamwork and group movement. This would make rambos significantly weaker, since even the loss of a single limb would spell doom for them. Also, this would make the game more engaging for new players (in my opinion) since getting dismembered would bring in the “OH SH**†factor. They would learn very quickly that they have to work together, or they….well, get torn to shreds. Also, fights would be much more engaging, since there would be many, many more outcomes and mechanics in the standard encounter between marines and aliens. Instead of simply running and gunning, members of the group could be disabled in certain ways, causing limitations to the way they keep moving and cover each other. So a group of marines that is harassed by aliens is much weaker than a group of marines that wasn’t harassed at all. Unless, of course, the commander makes judicious use of medkits.
In the nofrag interview, the dev team talked about getting rid of a numerically-based health gauge. I took that as the possibility that they would be more interested in a less numbers-based, more chance-based mainstream game. Although this isn’t what I would prefer, maybe they could have a numbers-based mode for league play and a chance-based, more mainstream-entertaining public play mode. Whenever I thought about it though, I realized that having removable limbs could be pretty interesting. Not just to make the game more realistic, but to improve gameplay mechanics as well.
As an afterthought, maybe the lerk could be changed to attack, not with a bite, but with sharp wings? Maybe he could specialize in swooping in and taking out limbs. This keeps him firmly as a support lifeform, but could do some serious harassment to the marine team. It would also make them much scarier than the standard lerk in a vent, spitting out gas.
Also, the skulk’s bite would obviously have to be changed from the way it is in NS1. If a skulk misses a bite, it can keep chomping away at the same rate that it normally does. If it hits a limb, however, an animation plays that shows “something†in its mouth, and the bite has a significant cooldown before it can be used again. Maybe not too long of a wait, but certainly enough so that the skulk can’t kill the marine in the process of the marine falling down (which would be really lame, a full-health marine shouldn’t be killed in one hit).
Anyway, there’s the suggestion that I came out of the shadows to give to you guys. I haven’t played it in a year, but NS was one of my favorite games, so I wish the best to you guys on NS2. Dev team, if you’re reading this, good job. I can’t wait to see what you guys have to show us, and I can’t wait to be blowing up skulks in high definition <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
No limbs get weakened or bit off. League NS is a game of skill, not chance.
<u>Public game mode:</u>
Area-locational alien attacks. If a skulk bites the limb of a marine, there is a chance (yes, chance, like in TF2) that the limb is either weakened or bit off altogether. Increasing the armor level of the marine decreases the chance of limb damage/loss. Using a medpack heals limbs back together completely.
<b>Arm crippled:</b> Marine can still use all weapons, but accuracy is decreased. Marine’s arm model shows heavy bleeding.
<b>Arm lost:</b> Marine drops primary weapon, pulls out pistol with remaining hand. Shows an animation that would make this obvious to the marine, so they don’t just wonder why their weapon is on the ground.
<b>Leg crippled:</b> Marine limps and moves slower. Marine’s leg model shows heavy bleeding.
<b>Leg lost:</b> Marine falls down, but can still fire primary weapon. Can be dragged to safety by a teammate, but while the teammate is pulling the downed marine, he cannot use his weapon.
<b>Torso/Chest:</b> Normal damage.
<b>Head hit:</b> Critical hit? Possibly 1.5x damage? Might be exploited by ceiling skulks though…
Losing a limb causes damage over time until it is healed with a medkit. This is so abandoning marines is a viable strategy if time/res is tight.
Having disabled limbs could make the marine team more dependent on teamwork and group movement. This would make rambos significantly weaker, since even the loss of a single limb would spell doom for them. Also, this would make the game more engaging for new players (in my opinion) since getting dismembered would bring in the “OH SH**†factor. They would learn very quickly that they have to work together, or they….well, get torn to shreds. Also, fights would be much more engaging, since there would be many, many more outcomes and mechanics in the standard encounter between marines and aliens. Instead of simply running and gunning, members of the group could be disabled in certain ways, causing limitations to the way they keep moving and cover each other. So a group of marines that is harassed by aliens is much weaker than a group of marines that wasn’t harassed at all. Unless, of course, the commander makes judicious use of medkits.
In the nofrag interview, the dev team talked about getting rid of a numerically-based health gauge. I took that as the possibility that they would be more interested in a less numbers-based, more chance-based mainstream game. Although this isn’t what I would prefer, maybe they could have a numbers-based mode for league play and a chance-based, more mainstream-entertaining public play mode. Whenever I thought about it though, I realized that having removable limbs could be pretty interesting. Not just to make the game more realistic, but to improve gameplay mechanics as well.
As an afterthought, maybe the lerk could be changed to attack, not with a bite, but with sharp wings? Maybe he could specialize in swooping in and taking out limbs. This keeps him firmly as a support lifeform, but could do some serious harassment to the marine team. It would also make them much scarier than the standard lerk in a vent, spitting out gas.
Also, the skulk’s bite would obviously have to be changed from the way it is in NS1. If a skulk misses a bite, it can keep chomping away at the same rate that it normally does. If it hits a limb, however, an animation plays that shows “something†in its mouth, and the bite has a significant cooldown before it can be used again. Maybe not too long of a wait, but certainly enough so that the skulk can’t kill the marine in the process of the marine falling down (which would be really lame, a full-health marine shouldn’t be killed in one hit).
Anyway, there’s the suggestion that I came out of the shadows to give to you guys. I haven’t played it in a year, but NS was one of my favorite games, so I wish the best to you guys on NS2. Dev team, if you’re reading this, good job. I can’t wait to see what you guys have to show us, and I can’t wait to be blowing up skulks in high definition <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Comments
I hate people who keep bringing up these ideas, it's like beating a poor old lady to death, then not stop beating her.
I'm not saying we should add area-locational damage to aliens...that's a possibility, but not one that should be considered in this thread.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->###### trying to walk all the way back to base, just off yourself<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You would have to walk back to base if you were going off by yourself. If you had squadmates this wouldn't be an issue. If they want to encourage teamwork and get rid of rambos in NS2, this is one way they can do it. And add more depth at the same time.
And disabling two arms or two legs could be a possibility, but if the marine has been bitten that many times, I don't really see why he wouldn't be dead. Loss of limb is not a 100% chance. It's whatever probability they decide it should be for game balancing. A marine losing two legs would have to be bitten like 5 times.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hate people who keep bringing up these ideas, it's like beating a poor old lady to death, then not stop beating her.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wat
After 4 bites, with a chance of 1 in 625 of you losing all limbs... Then I think it's fear if you're absolutely dead...
But, no. I'm not favor to limb taking. How the heck you get they back? Even in a squad, this don't stop skulks having a chance of a bite rendering that marine permanently useless. Be making then a living turret or a walking meatbag.
Instead, temporary damage could do the job.
About headshot, actually... no. Yes because it actually induces skulks and lerks by attacking by the ceiling, adding skill, but if you ignore the fact that I can just leap/divebomb straight your face and bite it off. No because then a fade with focus, for example, could aim the head and always kill, no matter how much hp or armor you have.
Instead, temporary damage could do the job.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your limbs regenerate if you use a medpack. So yes, a marine can be weakened, in which case the commander decides if the marine is worth the resources for the medpack. If the marine is running off alone and gets something bit off, chances are the commander wouldn't even be able to respond by the time the rambo gets eaten.
Having removable limbs would make the marine team more reliant on the commander, and reinforces teamwork. Also this is a good way for the commander to give negative feedback to a marine. How do you punish someone who ignores orders and runs off alone all the time? Don't give him the medpack so he can get back up.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd avoid any kind of critical hit styled randomization on skulks. It just encourages more blind rushing in favour of getting a few lucky frags. Of course it also allows new players to succeed here and there, but I'd rather do the newbie smoothening in a way that doesn't interfere with the calculated skulk attack logic. Knowing which fights to take is an essential part of the skulk play after all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, removable limbs introduces probability to the equation, one of the reasons why I thought people wouldn't go for this suggestion. Mainstream gamers wouldn't hate adding probability to the game. And I think the other qualities that removable limbs would add to the game would be worth it.
It might be a nice little feature, but I still believe that encouraging the 'correct' gameplay could result in better public games and thus making it more enjoyable for the mainstreamers too. At least I see no other way out of the present issues of the NS learning curve-depth-skill importance dilemma. That's all assumptions on my side though.
so, why implement such a feature when it is barely seen? i mean its much easier and more effective to get a second skulk to kill that marine. i cant really see this feature in fast paced action NS is. even in classic.
so, why implement such a feature when it is barely seen? i mean its much easier and more effective to get a second skulk to kill that marine. i cant really see this feature in fast paced action NS is. even in classic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was never too great of a skulk, so whenever I jumped into a group of marines and started biting, I usually didn't hit the same marine 3 times before dying. My hits were all over the place, which is exactly what will happen to new players. I'm sure it would be annoying for new players to get 5 bites off on a few marines, think that they're doing a great job, then realize that they didn't get any kills and think they did nothing to help the team. Tearing an arm off would be a good way to show that you DID do something.
They may not be at the skill level to land their bites at the same target all the time, but they can still be a significant asset to the team.
This is a way to newbie-smooth.
EX: "5% Chance this ability will be resisted." You go to a mob, every time you ever use it on the mob, it's resisted.... no one likes chance to deal in combat.
I don't know if weaking them just to make noticeable the good job is worthy... They'll die anyway, so who bited will not see they cripping or having difficult to shoot. And if the skulk don't die is because they actually killed someone... Unless they bite and run, what is difficult against someone with good aiming.
Otherwise... no. Maim is lame.
<i>*cough*</i>
But yeah, how does this make the game more fun?
Also i think if you suveyed war vets that lost a limb in action and asked them whether they continued to fight hard after they'd lost it or if they became effectivly out of the fight i think most of them would say the latter.
Then again it might be too bloody for some.
Then again it might be too bloody for some.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know how the engine of half-life/NS2 works, but, after killing, NS1 bodies are hitboxless entities (unlikely HL ragdolls, which can be attacked until gibbing), so, if they keep "imortal" in NS2, can't they be client side? (if yes, then the user can turn on-off "limb ripping death animation" in options)
Maybe only for the killing bite/shot would be enough if anything pre-death was too difficult to work effectively.
Don't shy away from any ideas that isn't immediately obvious how they will work - the hardest things to work out are the most rewarding (like placing two teams with very different abilities against each other <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> )
Games that lack any realistic interaction appear dated very quickly.