Will NS2 be newbie friendly?
Syklo
Join Date: 2008-11-28 Member: 65598Members
Join Date: 2008-11-28 Member: 65598Members
Hi!
I tried to introduce NS(1) to a few friends, joined the same server, same team and helped them. But almost everyone thought it was too "messy" and aliens would pop up everywhere... After maybe a week everyone of them had removed or didn't play NS no more.
They never said "This game is boring, I don't like this gametype", it was only "wtf, the aliens are invisible" or "that mega alien have 1 million hp" comments about the game.
Will the same thing happen to NS2 where it's too hard for newbies to understand the game and enjoy the fun?
A short introduction movie might help? (noone wanna read a 30 pages manual before they test a game)
I tried to introduce NS(1) to a few friends, joined the same server, same team and helped them. But almost everyone thought it was too "messy" and aliens would pop up everywhere... After maybe a week everyone of them had removed or didn't play NS no more.
They never said "This game is boring, I don't like this gametype", it was only "wtf, the aliens are invisible" or "that mega alien have 1 million hp" comments about the game.
Will the same thing happen to NS2 where it's too hard for newbies to understand the game and enjoy the fun?
A short introduction movie might help? (noone wanna read a 30 pages manual before they test a game)
Comments
I tried to introduce NS(1) to a few friends, joined the same server, same team and helped them. But almost everyone thought it was too "messy" and aliens would pop up everywhere... After maybe a week everyone of them had removed or didn't play NS no more.
They never said "This game is boring, I don't like this gametype", it was only "wtf, the aliens are invisible" or "that mega alien have 1 million hp" comments about the game.
Will the same thing happen to NS2 where it's too hard for newbies to understand the game and enjoy the fun?
A short introduction movie might help? (noone wanna read a 30 pages manual before they test a game)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Might as well ask - will today's gamers ever learn patience?
Frankly this mod isn't for your friends cause this mod actually requires a tiiiiny bit of patience in order to learn it. Overall there is very little info that you have to grasp really - just a few misc alien abilities, some basic concept on how they work and the same for marines. On top of that it's the standard learning maps and controls. Once you know that you're set to play.
Yeah, this mod could use a proper tutorial perhaps, but as for the gameplay itself - there's absolutely nothing that is overly complex or difficult about it whatsoever. The problem lies with the lazy-assed (and potential brain dead) players and not the mod.
To me it sounds like they needed to play the kharaa side to get perspective. And yes, a little patience would have gone a long way. It's much more simple than a conventional RTS, but more complex than your typical FPS.
The game is NOT dead. If people are playing it, it's not dead. I say that because I can list off a bunch of multiplayer games that absolutely no one plays. I couldn't help myself....
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Miracle Max: See, there's a big difference between mostly dead, and all dead. Now, mostly dead: he's slightly alive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's no different than assuming bad AI or pathing in units in starcraft - the only trick is that you have to add a nonlinear gameplay ramp so that once a team starts winning, the game either ends quickly or the other team quickly creates a turnaround.
<b>For example, adding static defenses that work unattended will wholly prevent players from creating that turnaround, which results in deterministic gameplay. Turrets were the worst idea ever. Even though they're bad in competitive, resource control is so lacking in public play that they create prohibitive gameplay locks.</b>
1) There are times where you are given no opportunity to defend yourself. This predominately happens when you respawn and a enemy player is ready to cap/bite your ass. You completely feel powerless and somewhat cheated for having to wait to respawn and get nothing back.
2) It is also extremely heavy handed in the sense that you are completely on your own. That is made worse by the fact the game is complicated and the combat is extremely quick (I was actually surprised on how quickly I can kill a marine and they can kill me). It still felt awkward as a returning player, but it was mostly the combat duration that set me off.
A better spawning system where you are given an opportunity to not die would be nice and making the game gentler so its not so much in your face when you immediately begin.
Also, why does no one speak on servers? : <
1) There are times where you are given no opportunity to defend yourself. This predominately happens when you respawn and a enemy player is ready to cap/bite your ass. You completely feel powerless and somewhat cheated for having to wait to respawn and get nothing back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is one of the things that I've never understood. If a guy is taking you out at spawn he has obiviously done something right to get to that position. If you haven't had a chance to prevent that, wait a moment and try it when the spawncamp finishes. It's not like you'd be spending even minutes in spawn queue most of the time.
Meanwhile everyone seems to be totally fine with cloak stomp onoses running around co maps and devouring everyone without giving them a practical chance.
Meanwhile everyone seems to be totally fine with cloak stomp onoses running around co maps and devouring everyone without giving them a practical chance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I personally never liked combat even when I used to play a lot of NS1. That example deals with another issue completely unrelated with this that I haven't even mentioned.
The issue of spawn camping is two-fold. Being killed and having to wait to respawn is a punishment for failure by itself and in all fairness, it's not always the fault of the individual that the spawn camping is happening. Knowing that you are going to respawn in how many seconds to be immediately killed sucks. It will be especially aggravating for new players who barely can handle the basics of the game. There should be a punishment for a bad defense I agree, but not spawn killing. This is an example of the game being too harsh when it could be gentler.
We should be telling the new players of how we had to walk 10 miles up a hill to get to school during a blizzard instead of forcing them to do it when we have public transportation.
For example: you spawn as ghost first that allows you to get in position to spawn. If the hive is attacked, you can't spawn or there is greatly increased spawn time. Not saying it should be done exactly like that, but it is an example of gentler NS that could keep the fundamentals of the original.
I can see your logic. I can guarantee you'll get punished because of a bad team, spawncamping or no spawncamping, though. That's part of the team games, especially on public servers.
I believe NS is the exact opposite of this; the battle sequences are quite long and that is what makes the game so enjoyable. NS doesn’t have head shots (1 shot kills) like most games, the combat sequences are long compared to most FPS games, even those which are some of the biggest games out there.
CS
DOD
COD series
If you consistantly die quickly in NS then you must adjust.
NS isn’t newbie friendly and may never be because there is so much going on at once. As any life form or marine how you play against each other changes depending on so many factors; Ammo, Guns in use, # of enemies, friendly support, adrenaline, health, armor, opponent abilities, opponent locations, structures, nearest health/healing, commander reaction time, your movement, opponents movement, timing, opponents intentions (build, pickup equip?), life forms involved, proximity to the hive, etc. All these things go into any combat situation and those who play it right wins.
There is just as much strategy that goes into playing the FPS side of NS as the Commander side. I would even say there are more in the FPS because the aliens don’t have commander.
I really hope that NS2 will be a game that someone who does not play a lot of games will be able to play. I am not just talking about normal video game players who have a long history of doing so. Having the game being exclusive only to a niche audience is pretty much a death sentence unless that niche is large enough to sustain the game, which is too much of a gamble for a developing studio. New blood is going to be needed to ensure this is going to be a successful game in the long term.
But I think that the game's core mechanics should be extremely simplified with additional depth becoming accessible as the person plays more. I am going to make a new thread on that actually to avoid side-tracking this one.
That or the resource flow can be regulated by the server (server could allow twice resource input so that the comm and all players could easily get upgrades).
One of the most interesting elements in NS for me was the kind of mystique attached to commanding. So many people are afraid of commanding, especially for the first time or after a horrendous loss (with marines like me yelling at them). This for me is not a negative at all, its something I have never seen before in any multiplayer game. It's a real fear for embarrassing one's self and losing the game for a team. Though it probably doesn't help attract players, it definitely makes the position of commander extremely meaningful and helps reduce the amount of strategic incompetents taking the position.
I remember the first few times I commanded. People were not happy.
NS is a relatively complex game (for FPS players) and some people just aren't willing to learn to play a complex game. It really isn't possible to force people to learn something when they'd just rather play a simpler game (CSS: shoot them in the head gg etc).
That being said, the best we can do is provide good resources for those that want to learn to play the game.
Some ideas incl:
-cl_autohelp (from NS1), it worked pretty well for what it is
-a hints feature (on death/respawn)(potentially dynamic hints)
-better impulses (alien:ambush, bait; marine: cover me)
-a tutorial map (like the one available for NS1)
-bot servers (for learning to command)
-sandbox maps (dunno how this would work?). Just lots of res etc..?
-good manuals and guides
-forums and chatrooms with helpful people
-farm tournaments
And my favourite idea (much credit for the idea to schkorpio):
A single player (could also be co-op) mission where the player is progressively introduced to the weapons/equipment and commanding as the mission progresses. The story could be the ship is boarded, and the player has to reach the bridge to get to the comm chair, then build a base, then assault the alien hive onboard the ship. Within this mission the player would need to use welders to weld lifts, repair buildings and repair players. He'd have to used jetpacks to reach high platforms etc. I see this as an easy enough way for a player to get used to all of the different features of the marine game. It would prepare them for cloaking, welding, mines, grenades, building stuff, using the commchair (a little bit i guess...), jps, HA and whatever else exists. It would also give them *some* idea of what exists on the alien team.