Build Phase Gate Before Turret Factory
sender
Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8337Members
Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8337Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Whaddya think? Good or Bad?</div> When I set up at a resource node or hive I sually get a phase gate before everything else. I figure if I can get the phase gate and THEN plop down the resource node/turret factory even if a skulk or two can get in and kill my marines it's only a few seconds before others can get back there and hose down munching aliens.
So, any reason NOT to build the phase gate before the turret factory?
So, any reason NOT to build the phase gate before the turret factory?
Comments
at the beggining of the game, build infantry portal, armory, observatory, phase gate. NO TURRETS. Scan for the hive location, then tell all but 1 or 2 marines to run to the hive, no capping resources on the way. Just tell them to keep running past defense. When you get there put up a phase gate at the hive. Everyone comes back to base for welder/shotguns and you've just won the game.
When you first claim a hive, they're going to try to prevent you from taking it, and marines are better than turrets, by far.
If you do stick a gate at every node or choke point you advance to, recycle a few of the old gates once you've moved on and they become pointless.
Observatory---third structure I build after the armory and the infantry portal. I never really get around to turrets at main base until I'm good and ready. Mines and one marine can take care of 95% of most skulks.
1 Infantry portal - 15 Res
1 Observatorium - 25 Res
1 Turret factory - 25 Res
2 Turrets - 38 Res
Total: 103
1 Marine on Defense, rest grab a nozzle. They defend the nozzle until i can get a armory and
a phasegate running. With this tactic I often grab a hive way ahead of the aliens plan. Most
skulk rushes are aimed for the marinebase and not the hives. (for some stupid reason)
With the Obs. I can also find a hive that is not occupied, that way my marines dont need to take
a risk when I send them to a "random" hive. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Works nicely for me, when playing with noobs i tend to go for armory and 2 infportals, they die
often and complain when they run out of ammo. They just dont want to die those damn noobs <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
2 Infantry portals - 30 rps
Armory - 25 rps
Observatory - 25 rps (could've sworn it was 15.. can't remember.. brainfart! :O)
Motion Tracking - 45 rps
Total - 125 rps
This build order is pretty good since the whole rushing thing from the skulks is gone since the marines know when they're coming, and it also reduces them getting the "jump" or surprise on the marines because they already know they're there. Usually a good player defends the base, and prevents any more skulks while the rest go for a few nozzles, then move for a hive.
Still it's a risky project, at some maps the base can be a bit hard to defend if
8 skulks rush in at the same time, even if you are two marines on defense.
Would work though if you really trust your grunts <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've used that tactic a couple of time but at public servers which are packed
with noobs i try to go for more safe methods.
As a clantactic it will work great though, belive most marine player would go
for something like this. (maybe early phasegates for increased defense and
motiondetector slightly after also)
2 Turrets - 38 Res
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For this I can have about 40 mines sealing off my base and one marine to mop up and replace any blown mines. To top it off...the mines actually kill the skulks...unlike 2 turrets.
Still it's a risky project, at some maps the base can be a bit hard to defend if
8 skulks rush in at the same time, even if you are two marines on defense.
Would work though if you really trust your grunts <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've used that tactic a couple of time but at public servers which are packed
with noobs i try to go for more safe methods.
As a clantactic it will work great though, belive most marine player would go
for something like this. (maybe early phasegates for increased defense and
motiondetector slightly after also)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just tell everyone to stay at base and guard. I usually say "one build, rest stay at base and guard"
Won two out of two with this build so far. Plus, it's really useful to grab that first hive then drop a phase gate to hold it before advancing to second.
The main reason is that its crucial that the hive outpost be self-sustaining ASAP, especially in the early game when you don't have access to more powerful weapons. Now it would be ideal to build the phase gate first if you are in a clan match and you guys have an actual plan to go as a grouped force and put all your resources on taking an early hive spot. But on public servers the marines are usually building in several places and so it's necessary to build with the assumption that you may not get any back up for a few minutes. If you build the phase gate first even if you get the phase gate up quickly, somebody still needs to build it at base, and in it time it takes for somebody to realize this and start building and THEN have marines actually use it, its possible a multitude of things could go wrong:
- The aliens could find you there, a lone marine sitting by a broken phase gate. All they have to do is kill you and the phase gate will go down just as quick.
- The commander could run out of resources. If it's early game and you ask for a phase gate instead while marines are asking for factories somewhere else, you could get passed up for crucial equipment. But if you ask for a resource and a factory first, the commander might think twice about allocating resources elsewhere and give them to you.
That's why if anything you'd want to get the factory up first. one factory and two turrets is all you need at first to keep a hive outpost safe from a few skulks. It's takes longer than a phase gate, yes, but after those items are up you can die and not worry about what's going to happen to the outpost in the time it takes you to come back. My personal feeling is that the factory should go even before the resource tower but having the resource tower built first can be a good thing too:
- It gives you leverage with the commander. He will be more willing to drop some equipment at a hive spot with a tower up and he might even send a few people over there to help
- Those extra resources ensure that you'll have enough rp to get the factory and the two turrets
So basically what I'm saying is that sure, in an ideal setting, phase gates should go first. But marines and aliens are unpredictables on pub servers. Turrets are not. Get them up first. Its a risky mission either way you decide to build so its best to get automated defenses up first. AUTOMATED DEFENSES WITH 2 TURRETS WILL KILL 5 GROUPED SKULKS. 5 marines MIGHT but its not certain. And even then, I'd rather have some turrets doing the job of those 5 marines that could be doing something elsewhere.
I'll address this in my thread too since thats where it originated.
They might if they suffered from a severe brain injury, played only with a keyboard, and was blindfolded, deaf and had only one arm.
FYI 5 skulks will OWN 2 Turrets. They only have to take out one turret (which they would do in about 1 sec, and then you would have wasted 61 resources. Phasegate is just as quick to build, and a better longtime investment, since it gives you motiontracking and the ability to place more phasegates.
I still think you need turret factories, but they should under NO circumstances be the FIRST thing you build at a outpost.
1. It's a bigger investement then a singlephasegate, therefore it would be a greater loss if your marines are killed before they can finish it.
2. The phasegates makes it possible to bring in a HUGE amount of reinforcements in VERY short time. a TF can't compete with that.
3. TF and so does turrets, unless you can bring in alot of reinforcements fast, it's a risk as long as you have only 1-2 turrets near the TF. If they get wiped out, you loose alot of resources. The phasegate is still just a 20RP investment.
As I see it, turrets should only be used on certain locations.
Chokepoints, Hives
I usually don't build turrets in main until a bit later in game, I have one or more players standing in base defending. So for I got 8 straight wins with this tactic <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
No Defense build
1) 2 infantry portals
2) armory
3) observatory
No research motion tracking nothing, I tell one/two marines to defend (hopefully they will) and the rest I send to a hive where I build
1)resource node
2) phasegates at both hive and home
3) turrets and factory...
Now the first will work if my team works togeather but it is a bit risky since many a marine has the rambo death wish and runs off, disobeys orders, etc.
The "Standard"
1) 2 infantry portals
2)armory
(wait for first rush then)
3)Turret Factory
4)3 turrets (you will have to wait about 60 secs into the game to get the third)
Though the standard works well, I usually only build it when I am unsure of my teams ability to follow orders and kill aliens. Both will work if you have teamwork, using the second build I get a hive/node/Tf/ 3 turrets and then grab another node nearyby, then go observatory/phase gates...
Phase Gates are Crucial if you do not address them within the first few mins of the game, you better pray the map is small and your team is L33t otherwise all will be lost.
Texas Ranger
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but a TF gives no upgrades at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What about siege?
hah man we want to defende the base not crash the server <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah, that's true, but how often do you use siege in your homebase, and the first thing you do when you take a hive? :/