instead of writing a post of the length of the whole site whit OMG AWESOMEz pIG8OH ZDFBFRIAWE aaAH I WANT in it.
no words, especialy writen, can explain and give the slighliest idea of how exicited and satisfactioned i am when watching the first moving frames of Natural selection 2.
i was HJZOMG as i seen the new news. i need to controll myself not jumping out of my chair as i seen the dark room.
and i just love it how fast developing seems to go now after switching to evolution engine.
i just fear that my comp cant handle it. it looks like crysis.. (and i own crysis. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> )
Good stuff, I dont map but I hope the community gets the tools to start soon. Everyone who has played NS knows how important the maps are to the game.
I'll agree with Shockwave, dont make things downscalable it gives players who choose to play with poorer graphics an dis/advantage. For example, in Battlefield Veitnam you could just turn down all the graphics and there would be no vegetation which was 90% of the cover in that game. It just made it too frustrating to play.
As it is competative leagues go through so much effort to limit abusive graphic settings via plugins screenshots etc.
There is a middle ground I'm sure of that, settings that reduce system specs but doesnt create any disadvantages or advantages.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1690377:date=Oct 15 2008, 10:13 AM:name=Diggity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Diggity @ Oct 15 2008, 10:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since you are running on a separate engine, how do you plan to handle game distribution?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well they can still distribute on Steam. Crysis, Farcry, Bioshock are all different engines available on Steam.
<!--quoteo(post=1690362:date=Oct 15 2008, 02:30 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SentrySteve @ Oct 15 2008, 02:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was stated on the Twitter mini-feed that they've taken down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not down, it's just not on the frontpage anymore. It's still accessible at <a href="http://twitter.com/NS2" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/NS2</a> . The particular Post about the specs can be found <a href="http://twitter.com/NS2/statuses/956234911" target="_blank">here</a>.
<!--quoteo(post=1689959:date=Oct 10 2008, 07:03 PM:name=ViPr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ViPr @ Oct 10 2008, 07:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1689959"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i noticed the animations still skip like in NS1. i noticed it on the sensory chamber.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's because it's playing the same animation from NS1.
How about the "Intelligent Design" engine <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
One of the most contentious statements I've seen you make Crispy. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> I'm seriously hoping for an absolute minimum in downscaling, but that's because I've always sat on the other side of that particular fence. Every player should see the same thing as everyone else, so no two players have a different experience in a given environment. I'd hate to see NS reach 'Lego Quake' style proportions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You should be able to do all your downscaling in the menu to make the jump from advanced play to competitive play smaller and require less back-end fiddling.
The idea with the maps is the same: if maps are easy to decompile a set of competitive-friendly maps (identical in geometry, tweaked in lighting) can be played privately. This shouldn't disrupt pub play since the maps will be essentially the same in geometry.
I don't really understand the concept of having seperate competitive-friendly settings. Perhaps if the level design was so slanted towards atmosphere and aesthetics this would be necessary, but if the levels are designed so that at the recommended setting for brightness it does not reduce visibility and thus playability, we should all be able to play with (essentially) the same settings.
My idea with the level lighting is to 'enforce' the same standard for minimum illumination across all official maps. That way, one dark map won't spoil it for the brighter (more correctly lit) ones by raising the minimum brightness needed to see well on every map.
Except people can force gamma/brightness in their GPU control panel, or some people monitors display better contrasts than other so its never going to be truly fair.
<!--quoteo(post=1690442:date=Oct 15 2008, 07:43 PM:name=Olmy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Olmy @ Oct 15 2008, 07:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690442"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't really understand the concept of having separate competitive-friendly settings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In short, competitive gamers can get around just about any type of restriction, a restriction like "your game will be dark in this spot no matter what." For example, in BF2 competitive players were able to edit their user.cfg in order to gain extra visibility that was not available to the average player who would use the in-game menu.
Allowing players to have full control of their settings through in game menus, or having separate competitive maps, ensures that everyone will have an equal playing field without having to jump through hoops or knowing some cfg/console secret.
The purpose of competitive gaming to win. Hopefully you have some fun along the way but you are there to win. With that in mind, they'll do anything it takes to not be obstructed by obstacles in game, like dark shadows.
<!--quoteo(post=1690469:date=Oct 16 2008, 02:39 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SentrySteve @ Oct 16 2008, 02:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In short, competitive gamers can get around just about any type of restriction, a restriction like "your game will be dark in this spot no matter what." For example, in BF2 competitive players were able to edit their user.cfg in order to gain extra visibility that was not available to the average player who would use the in-game menu.
Allowing players to have full control of their settings through in game menus, or having separate competitive maps, ensures that everyone will have an equal playing field without having to jump through hoops or knowing some cfg/console secret.
The purpose of competitive gaming to win. Hopefully you have some fun along the way but you are there to win. With that in mind, they'll do anything it takes to not be obstructed by obstacles in game, like dark shadows.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the point I was trying to stumble toward : if at the recommended brightness settings the darkest shadows were still not *too* dark, there would be less incentive for the user to make the game brighter to compensate, which would make the other maps look overexposed in the process. I'm not saying that it will be possible to reduce the need for graphical tweaks in competitive play completely, just that it could be reduced with a little more consistency between maps and elimination of very dark shadows.
Anyway, going a bit offtopic here, I'll just add that the engine demo put a big smile on my face.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1690469:date=Oct 16 2008, 02:39 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SentrySteve @ Oct 16 2008, 02:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In short, competitive gamers can get around just about any type of restriction, a restriction like "your game will be dark in this spot no matter what." For example, in BF2 competitive players were able to edit their user.cfg in order to gain extra visibility that was not available to the average player who would use the in-game menu.
Allowing players to have full control of their settings through in game menus, or having separate competitive maps, ensures that everyone will have an equal playing field without having to jump through hoops or knowing some cfg/console secret.
The purpose of competitive gaming to win. Hopefully you have some fun along the way but you are there to win. With that in mind, they'll do anything it takes to not be obstructed by obstacles in game, like dark shadows.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with the intent, just not with the implementation. I think the player should be restricted from messing around with it, so the 'out of the box' view is the same as for everyone else, regardless, and then enforce consistency to ensure they don't deviate from that norm or it's considering 'cheating'.
Fine, that way I can't eliminate say, someone messing their monitor settings up, but in a game like NS where darkness and concealment are (/should, depending on your POV of NS on the Half Life engine) part & parcel of game mechanics, eliminating them means you either need to balance around the probability they won't be there and skew the game for anyone not running the super-special-config-I-downloaded / followed the special-how-to-not-suck-guide.
Likewise with mapping: If you're going to have a 'competitive' and 'normal' version of a map, I've a better idea: dump the normal version. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1690442:date=Oct 16 2008, 12:43 AM:name=Olmy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Olmy @ Oct 16 2008, 12:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690442"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My idea with the level lighting is to 'enforce' the same standard for minimum illumination across all official maps. That way, one dark map won't spoil it for the brighter (more correctly lit) ones by raising the minimum brightness needed to see well on every map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->They have already hinted strongly that not all maps will follow this mantra. Just look at the biosphere concept art blog and see the comments there to see how they said they wanted to have some maps that were light and some that were dark.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree with the intent, just not with the implementation. I think the player should be restricted from messing around with it, so the 'out of the box' view is the same as for everyone else, regardless, and then enforce consistency to ensure they don't deviate from that norm or it's considering 'cheating'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You can't enforce consistency on gamma and brightness because these need to be adjustable across all systems, because -unlike the console market- PC users all have different hardware setups at different native settings and capable of different ranges.
<!--quoteo(post=1690027:date=Oct 11 2008, 10:55 PM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mendasp @ Oct 11 2008, 10:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690027"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The new engine is looking awesome. I hope the editor is awesome too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hay mendasp, iv'e herd your suposed to remake bast for ns2?!
after watching the video for the 4 time now. i have some critism.
1. the shadows are just too clear. just look at the windows in the hallway. its too sharp, as if the light was a transparent block. 2. the vents. look damn nice. but again, the lights and shadows shouldnt be so clear near the door.
light fade away when distance increases. it isnt a block
Looking good guys <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
A couple questions that this raised for me ...
It looks like the Evolution editor is using 3d brush placement to build the world--is the engine BSP based? Is the there a text-based level format that could be exposed for (theoretically) an import tool?
I'm still professionally obligated to be hands off regarding tech contributions to other projects, but I'm curious about translation of HL1 and Source map assets.
I watched the video two times. It looks very nice. Your engine is gorgeous <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
If this is the "in-game" graphic, .. pff. i know this game is going to go better than tf 2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> ..
ps: i want these playable version <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />:D .. ^^
This lighting seems awesome.. only thing that struck me was when you went through that alley looking outside at the sun / bright daylight.. It seemed a bit strong, we humans have an ability to adapt our sight depending on the lighting, is this implemented? Would be an awesome feture.. and pretty cool to! So you could be blind for a few moments coming out a dark room before your eyes adapted ^^ <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1689894:date=Oct 10 2008, 02:26 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Max @ Oct 10 2008, 02:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1689894"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please post comments on the topic Development Blog Update - Unknown Worlds Videocast #5 here<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
Simply putting, Fantastic job guys ! Can't wait for NS2 ! NS1 is one of my favorite games of all times and I'm sure NS2 will bring it to the next level ! GO NS team GO !
Comments
no words, especialy writen, can explain and give the slighliest idea of how exicited and satisfactioned i am when watching the first moving frames of Natural selection 2.
i was HJZOMG as i seen the new news. i need to controll myself not jumping out of my chair as i seen the dark room.
and i just love it how fast developing seems to go now after switching to evolution engine.
i just fear that my comp cant handle it. it looks like crysis.. (and i own crysis. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> )
I'll agree with Shockwave, dont make things downscalable it gives players who choose to play with poorer graphics an dis/advantage. For example, in Battlefield Veitnam you could just turn down all the graphics and there would be no vegetation which was 90% of the cover in that game. It just made it too frustrating to play.
As it is competative leagues go through so much effort to limit abusive graphic settings via plugins screenshots etc.
There is a middle ground I'm sure of that, settings that reduce system specs but doesnt create any disadvantages or advantages.
Well they can still distribute on Steam. Crysis, Farcry, Bioshock are all different engines available on Steam.
It's not down, it's just not on the frontpage anymore. It's still accessible at <a href="http://twitter.com/NS2" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/NS2</a> . The particular Post about the specs can be found <a href="http://twitter.com/NS2/statuses/956234911" target="_blank">here</a>.
That's because it's playing the same animation from NS1.
...Nah, too close to tooting your own horn, sort of thing.
One of the most contentious statements I've seen you make Crispy. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> I'm seriously hoping for an absolute minimum in downscaling, but that's because I've always sat on the other side of that particular fence. Every player should see the same thing as everyone else, so no two players have a different experience in a given environment. I'd hate to see NS reach 'Lego Quake' style proportions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You should be able to do all your downscaling in the menu to make the jump from advanced play to competitive play smaller and require less back-end fiddling.
The idea with the maps is the same: if maps are easy to decompile a set of competitive-friendly maps (identical in geometry, tweaked in lighting) can be played privately. This shouldn't disrupt pub play since the maps will be essentially the same in geometry.
My idea with the level lighting is to 'enforce' the same standard for minimum illumination across all official maps. That way, one dark map won't spoil it for the brighter (more correctly lit) ones by raising the minimum brightness needed to see well on every map.
In short, competitive gamers can get around just about any type of restriction, a restriction like "your game will be dark in this spot no matter what." For example, in BF2 competitive players were able to edit their user.cfg in order to gain extra visibility that was not available to the average player who would use the in-game menu.
Allowing players to have full control of their settings through in game menus, or having separate competitive maps, ensures that everyone will have an equal playing field without having to jump through hoops or knowing some cfg/console secret.
The purpose of competitive gaming to win. Hopefully you have some fun along the way but you are there to win. With that in mind, they'll do anything it takes to not be obstructed by obstacles in game, like dark shadows.
Allowing players to have full control of their settings through in game menus, or having separate competitive maps, ensures that everyone will have an equal playing field without having to jump through hoops or knowing some cfg/console secret.
The purpose of competitive gaming to win. Hopefully you have some fun along the way but you are there to win. With that in mind, they'll do anything it takes to not be obstructed by obstacles in game, like dark shadows.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the point I was trying to stumble toward : if at the recommended brightness settings the darkest shadows were still not *too* dark, there would be less incentive for the user to make the game brighter to compensate, which would make the other maps look overexposed in the process. I'm not saying that it will be possible to reduce the need for graphical tweaks in competitive play completely, just that it could be reduced with a little more consistency between maps and elimination of very dark shadows.
Anyway, going a bit offtopic here, I'll just add that the engine demo put a big smile on my face.
zunni might have a whinge about that, but then again his mod appears to be dead and buried.
on topic - great work guys, i was flabbergasted when i watched it, and rewatched it, and rewatched it....
awesome stuff <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Allowing players to have full control of their settings through in game menus, or having separate competitive maps, ensures that everyone will have an equal playing field without having to jump through hoops or knowing some cfg/console secret.
The purpose of competitive gaming to win. Hopefully you have some fun along the way but you are there to win. With that in mind, they'll do anything it takes to not be obstructed by obstacles in game, like dark shadows.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with the intent, just not with the implementation. I think the player should be restricted from messing around with it, so the 'out of the box' view is the same as for everyone else, regardless, and then enforce consistency to ensure they don't deviate from that norm or it's considering 'cheating'.
Fine, that way I can't eliminate say, someone messing their monitor settings up, but in a game like NS where darkness and concealment are (/should, depending on your POV of NS on the Half Life engine) part & parcel of game mechanics, eliminating them means you either need to balance around the probability they won't be there and skew the game for anyone not running the super-special-config-I-downloaded / followed the special-how-to-not-suck-guide.
Likewise with mapping: If you're going to have a 'competitive' and 'normal' version of a map, I've a better idea: dump the normal version. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree with the intent, just not with the implementation. I think the player should be restricted from messing around with it, so the 'out of the box' view is the same as for everyone else, regardless, and then enforce consistency to ensure they don't deviate from that norm or it's considering 'cheating'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You can't enforce consistency on gamma and brightness because these need to be adjustable across all systems, because -unlike the console market- PC users all have different hardware setups at different native settings and capable of different ranges.
Hay mendasp, iv'e herd your suposed to remake bast for ns2?!
Have fun with dynamic revolving lights!
1. the shadows are just too clear. just look at the windows in the hallway. its too sharp, as if the light was a transparent block.
2. the vents. look damn nice. but again, the lights and shadows shouldnt be so clear near the door.
light fade away when distance increases. it isnt a block
A couple questions that this raised for me ...
It looks like the Evolution editor is using 3d brush placement to build the world--is the engine BSP based?
Is the there a text-based level format that could be exposed for (theoretically) an import tool?
I'm still professionally obligated to be hands off regarding tech contributions to other projects, but I'm curious about translation of HL1 and Source map assets.
Did I see the marine sprinting for a second there? Is that going to be in the release?
I watched the video two times. It looks very nice. Your engine is gorgeous <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
If this is the "in-game" graphic, .. pff. i know this game is going to go better than tf 2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> ..
ps: i want these playable version <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />:D .. ^^
btw.. awsome work <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
Simply putting, Fantastic job guys !
Can't wait for NS2 ! NS1 is one of my favorite games of all times and I'm sure NS2 will bring it to the next level !
GO NS team GO !