Well, I'm still refining my ideas. I have now decided this map's backstory will have some key elements to it.
First, it will definately be a refinery of some sort. Second, it will be either on a large asteroid or on the insides of a mountain (rocky textures). Second, I'm going to probably have to re-do the hive, but it could work for now. Sweetwater just sounds nice to me... but, I could make sweetwater another hive location, and make that one waste refinery (i'd have to re-do the hive, though)
Here is the daily addition to the map: <img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/ns_chemlabs0028.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/ns_chemlabs0027.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1690317:date=Oct 14 2008, 03:53 PM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryknow69 @ Oct 14 2008, 03:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->good, good, y not just call it Water Purifier(My hive name for my map im considering to finish up) or Water Desalination Processor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> haaa. post some pictures of your map or your idea for an ns2 map <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
=( i barely touched it, i made like 1 room, and just left it, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> i do that alot, get it half done then get bored(except the mape aint even 1% done <_<)
My idea is a Civilian Colony, You're on a small, low gravity planet, and the colony is mostly underground, the planet has 1.7% Oxygen, 69.2% Carbon Dioxide, 20.4% Iron Oxide(Redish Planet), 5.6% Nitrogen, 2.4% Helium, & 0.7% Unknown. The Kharra discovered the place when an Explorer came back, finding a mold on wierd planet. A Passing TSA Frigate got the colony's distress beacon, and sent a recon team down, they only found blood, and chewed chucks of metal. The TSA frigate sent a Command Chair down to interface with the colony's nanite network, as all this was happening, the Kharaa hive started production of bioforms to take on the agressors.
^ I like my story.
I'll have to draw my blueprint in paint, and I might start to do it again, and maybe even finish it.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1690302:date=Oct 14 2008, 05:22 PM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryknow69 @ Oct 14 2008, 05:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690302"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->y not a back story to what 'Sweetwater' is? A excretment from the hive?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sweetwater usually means potable or "drinkable" water. Although I wouldn't want to drink it if there's a hive growing in it. The back story would be that the SweetWater Reservoir is where the colonists/miners got their drinking water from.
I was thinking it would be cool to make 3 maps based on the same storyline -- first, the world complex where the spaceship is docked. Second, the spaceship in space (after it was forced to flee the sight) and third: the spaceship's crashlanding on some planet.
Ill make this map for NS1 and NS2 just cause I love the game. Here is another concept drawing. <img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/aiahconcept.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You atleast know how to draw, using small dashes to make up lines. Are the diagnal lines showing there's sumthing under/above that object?
Hard to depict little tid-bits, but the stuff I do see seem ok. What are those thin walls inbetween the lines near the right hive room, and the rooms connected?
So this facility has four main sections: docking and reception area (which is the natural MS). At this area a spaceship is docked. The facility is also home to (reactor(sewertoxic)/cargo) -- (living quarters(water sewers)) -- and -- (rocky mine/platform) areas.
The purpose of this facility is to mine the massive quantities of highly of an unstable element deep in the rocky caverns of Aiah (a planet on the Superior Rim -- LOL). The raw element is then placed into a reactor core that harnesses the energy, which is then captured and sent back on cargo ships (thus, Cargo areas). Unfortunately, the two products of this rare element are cancerous and benign:pure water and toxic waste. Therefore, handling the toxic waste has become an issue and an entire sewer system has been created to deal with this problem.
The engineers and workers at this facility mined the rocky chambers of this cavernous area and harnessed its energy before communications completely ceased and tradeships were denied entrance. This triggered the suspicions of TSA who sent UCC Bashful to investigate, loaded with a squad of a capable and experienced marine force to investigate the problem. On their way the chatty crew expected nuclear fallout, but hoped space pirates would be their primary concern. Little did they know a single Kharaa spore given proper conditions for life was their number one beastly competitor for survival -- and the doors closed and locked behind them as they entered into the corridors of Natural Selection.
Haha, learned a few things from messing with hammer... First: start with a plan. Second, make sure you follow your plan (or deviate only very slightly). Third, I feel like my map lacks correct structure to be NS classic material, so I want to start fresh. However, I will finish the map and post it as a co_ instead, once it looks all sexy and has manageable routes to and fro MS/1Hive.
Then, when I have enough time, I'll plan an ns map step by step... so... If you want, I can send you what i have in .bsp form and you can test it out yourself.
I'd like to see a combat map concept done by you. I've played some of the custom maps on the NS1 servers and I'm not too impressed. Either things are too boxy or the entire map is a plethora of narrow hallways or there just isn't any feeling of flow. I tend to enjoy the original co maps more. Although one gripe I've had is the lack of cover for chambers (I know co wasn't designed for buildmenu, but most servers use it now). One marine with a GL can rape the majority of chambers. I'm not sure how to strike the right balance though.
Another map concept I'd like to see is one with the ability to travel outside of the confined areas. Say on a spaceship where the outside is accessible (only to be able to run around on the outside then get back in at other point, an alternative to vent cliche). I know outdoor maps haven't been available yet, but I love the idea.
<!--quoteo(post=1690478:date=Oct 15 2008, 09:55 PM:name=t0x1kw4st3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(t0x1kw4st3 @ Oct 15 2008, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690478"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The purpose of this facility is to mine the massive quantities of highly of an unstable element deep in the rocky caverns of Aiah (a planet on the Superior Rim -- LOL). The raw element is then placed into a reactor core that harnesses the energy, which is then captured and sent back on cargo ships (thus, Cargo areas).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Made me think of a map concept. The goal of the marines is to capture and control resource points. The goal of the aliens is to keep the marines from gaining the resource points. Sounds familiar, I know, but here's the twist. Instead of the overall objective being to destroy the other team, the objective would be to gather a certain amount of resources in a time period. Prevention of this goal gives the win to the aliens, attainment gives victory to the marines. It's a rough idea right now and there would be many variables to resolve, but that's the general idea.
The Hive and Marine start areas would have to be inaccessible by the other team. The solution I had to this was a take from DoD where if you entered the opposing teams start area, you would be insta-gibbed.
I also thought that instead of a stagnant back and fourth the whole game and basic combat style upgrading (a level system in which you purchase items with level points), new weapons and upgrades would become available as the game progressed. I'm not entirely sure by which measure these would be unlocked... timed seems the obvious first choice, but might make games too predictable.
I started fresh on a map just now, beginning with Marine Start...
I'll make a CO concept map. It seems distances have to be about the same as an NS classic map between MS & Hive, and everything else is closed. Umm, give me some time I'll come up with one.
Hell, i've decided i'm not going to quit on the current map concept so here is a little update to show i've been working... going to combine it all. this again shows the neccesity for a solid plan before the map is made... <img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/overlay1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1690685:date=Oct 18 2008, 02:20 AM:name=t0x1kw4st3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(t0x1kw4st3 @ Oct 18 2008, 02:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this again shows the neccesity for a solid plan before the map is made...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lies and slander. all you really need is plenty of disposable time to make several revisions.
<!--quoteo(post=1690695:date=Oct 17 2008, 11:32 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spellman23 @ Oct 17 2008, 11:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690695"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lies and slander. all you really need is plenty of disposable time to make several revisions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah but consider ... ns_nothing (the map w/ power silo, viaduct and cargo hive)
it's way imbalanced. if the marines can take and hold generator they have a huge advantage because they can lock down 5-6 RTs (due to their close proximity/siege abilities). This leaves only 3 RTs for aliens (via, silo, foreboding)
You're definately right a solid plan isn't required (really more of a personal choice). It serves more as an ounce of prevention (which is worth more than a pound of cure, or, in this case, twenty hours spent on revisions). It's much easier to jump into the map making process relying on creativity (but this can lead you into an imbalanced ns_nothing scenario). So, solid plan is a good idea, plus, it gives you an idea of how your map will look like. But, by all means other methods are completely acceptable and can have equivalent outcomes.
I definately *know* that many current ns maps in circulation are definately imbalanced (but this perception can be skewed by player skill levels). Map balance is a fine tuned mechanism that can be achieved much more easily with a solid plan. So, by all means jump right in -- but know that you're going to have to think about it before or after you make the map. Before is a much better choice.
As a mapper you are forced to imagine the contenders of your map are completely equal, so as to not favor either. The criteria for map balance, you ask? Well, there are the basics -- 1)time between starting locations 2)siege ranges.
There should be little variation between these things unless you have a countermeasure. Other considerations include: 3)RT spread -- (the ns_nothing example provides the imbalance in the situation -- at least 5 RTs are extremly proximal and can be taken advantage of by RINES). 4)cover for skulks, lerks, onii 5)range vs melee balance (long corridors favor range -- twisting corridors / corners are necessary for map balance) 6)skulk/flying creature accomodation (vents, etc) 7)bile bomb spots 8)balanced starting rooms with adequate ability for natural defense (relates to #6, #7, #4, #5)
and alot of other stuff. basically, a ######fest They also talked about "spider-views" in a map which describes the circulation of a team. but this doesn't represent modern NS games which is much more like a pressure cooker -- marines expand into the map whereas aliens defend. Marines seem much more offensive than aliens, although the inverse can definately be true.
I like to think of building a map like writing a paper. How do you approach writing a big paper? Most teachers and professors will tell you to brainstorm and write out ideas and get them all out, without writing a single detail.
I've found though that some people can't write that way. They do far better beginning to write on invidiual paragraphs and then individual sections and then piece them together like you would with a paper menagerie.
I think maps can be done in the same way. So I guess that begs the question, how do you write a big paper? If you do well to start with the big picture first, you should probably create the basis of the rooms (make'em as big cubes at first and then add details later) and maintain spacial relationships between the rooms intact. The details will start by adding a shape and dimension to the room then the ramps and slopes to navigate the room, and then the individual details themselves like railings and wall design.
Inversely, perhaps one better accustomed to writing a paper from the bottom up would rather begin on individual rooms and ideas for map concepts which plug into individual room designs and later become connected with other rooms as the map begins to take shape.
I think it's also important to consider how to construct a room. In general, the idea of making a map is sort of like 'hollowing out' solid material as you would if you were mining an underground cave. However, once you have a basic shape for a room, what do you do to enhance it? You can either add to it or subtract from it. I notice most mappers prefer adding to, though I think this produces very predictable maps, in that they're all of a box shape with concave wall design and boxes or obstacles spread throughout. I think one shouldn't forget to subtract from rooms to 'add' to them. Producing a section of the room a meter or so below the other gives a player a sensation like you would have if you were exploring an underground cave, for example climbing up stairs or climbing down ladders to arrive at new sections of the map, even if it is the same room technically.
I think that a great map takes into account all ways of constructing a map, and I think the great mappers are the ones which push themselves to construct maps in ways they would otherwise disregard in order to find a nice balance.
I always make a concept on paper, then shift it to paint, then do piece by piece, making and perfecting the major details of the project, I've never really used hammer, but other map editors. So yea, I'll need help.
After I get the major rooms done, I make the connections, and Secondary rooms, then, when all are done, I put them in the puzzle box and connect them. I only do basic shapes then 'add' if I'm making a large map, by large, I mean large.
Comments
First, it will definately be a refinery of some sort. Second, it will be either on a large asteroid or on the insides of a mountain (rocky textures). Second, I'm going to probably have to re-do the hive, but it could work for now. Sweetwater just sounds nice to me... but, I could make sweetwater another hive location, and make that one waste refinery (i'd have to re-do the hive, though)
Here is the daily addition to the map:
<img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/ns_chemlabs0028.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/ns_chemlabs0027.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
haaa. post some pictures of your map or your idea for an ns2 map <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
My idea is a Civilian Colony, You're on a small, low gravity planet, and the colony is mostly underground, the planet has 1.7% Oxygen, 69.2% Carbon Dioxide, 20.4% Iron Oxide(Redish Planet), 5.6% Nitrogen, 2.4% Helium, & 0.7% Unknown. The Kharra discovered the place when an Explorer came back, finding a mold on wierd planet. A Passing TSA Frigate got the colony's distress beacon, and sent a recon team down, they only found blood, and chewed chucks of metal. The TSA frigate sent a Command Chair down to interface with the colony's nanite network, as all this was happening, the Kharaa hive started production of bioforms to take on the agressors.
^ I like my story.
I'll have to draw my blueprint in paint, and I might start to do it again, and maybe even finish it.
Sweetwater usually means potable or "drinkable" water. Although I wouldn't want to drink it if there's a hive growing in it. The back story would be that the SweetWater Reservoir is where the colonists/miners got their drinking water from.
But back to your map, hows the marine section going for it?
<img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/aiahconcept.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Hard to depict little tid-bits, but the stuff I do see seem ok.
What are those thin walls inbetween the lines near the right hive room, and the rooms connected?
The purpose of this facility is to mine the massive quantities of highly of an unstable element deep in the rocky caverns of Aiah (a planet on the Superior Rim -- LOL). The raw element is then placed into a reactor core that harnesses the energy, which is then captured and sent back on cargo ships (thus, Cargo areas). Unfortunately, the two products of this rare element are cancerous and benign:pure water and toxic waste. Therefore, handling the toxic waste has become an issue and an entire sewer system has been created to deal with this problem.
The engineers and workers at this facility mined the rocky chambers of this cavernous area and harnessed its energy before communications completely ceased and tradeships were denied entrance. This triggered the suspicions of TSA who sent UCC Bashful to investigate, loaded with a squad of a capable and experienced marine force to investigate the problem. On their way the chatty crew expected nuclear fallout, but hoped space pirates would be their primary concern. Little did they know a single Kharaa spore given proper conditions for life was their number one beastly competitor for survival -- and the doors closed and locked behind them as they entered into the corridors of Natural Selection.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
First: start with a plan.
Second, make sure you follow your plan (or deviate only very slightly).
Third, I feel like my map lacks correct structure to be NS classic material, so I want to start fresh. However, I will finish the map and post it as a co_ instead, once it looks all sexy and has manageable routes to and fro MS/1Hive.
Then, when I have enough time, I'll plan an ns map step by step... so... If you want, I can send you what i have in .bsp form and you can test it out yourself.
Another map concept I'd like to see is one with the ability to travel outside of the confined areas. Say on a spaceship where the outside is accessible (only to be able to run around on the outside then get back in at other point, an alternative to vent cliche). I know outdoor maps haven't been available yet, but I love the idea.
Made me think of a map concept. The goal of the marines is to capture and control resource points. The goal of the aliens is to keep the marines from gaining the resource points. Sounds familiar, I know, but here's the twist. Instead of the overall objective being to destroy the other team, the objective would be to gather a certain amount of resources in a time period. Prevention of this goal gives the win to the aliens, attainment gives victory to the marines. It's a rough idea right now and there would be many variables to resolve, but that's the general idea.
The Hive and Marine start areas would have to be inaccessible by the other team. The solution I had to this was a take from DoD where if you entered the opposing teams start area, you would be insta-gibbed.
I also thought that instead of a stagnant back and fourth the whole game and basic combat style upgrading (a level system in which you purchase items with level points), new weapons and upgrades would become available as the game progressed. I'm not entirely sure by which measure these would be unlocked... timed seems the obvious first choice, but might make games too predictable.
Like I said, just a general idea for now.
I'll make a CO concept map. It seems distances have to be about the same as an NS classic map between MS & Hive, and everything else is closed. Umm, give me some time I'll come up with one.
this again shows the neccesity for a solid plan before the map is made...
<img src="http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z178/iruyun/overlay1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
lies and slander. all you really need is plenty of disposable time to make several revisions.
yeah but consider ... ns_nothing (the map w/ power silo, viaduct and cargo hive)
it's way imbalanced. if the marines can take and hold generator they have a huge advantage because they can lock down 5-6 RTs (due to their close proximity/siege abilities). This leaves only 3 RTs for aliens (via, silo, foreboding)
You're definately right a solid plan isn't required (really more of a personal choice). It serves more as an ounce of prevention (which is worth more than a pound of cure, or, in this case, twenty hours spent on revisions). It's much easier to jump into the map making process relying on creativity (but this can lead you into an imbalanced ns_nothing scenario). So, solid plan is a good idea, plus, it gives you an idea of how your map will look like. But, by all means other methods are completely acceptable and can have equivalent outcomes.
I definately *know* that many current ns maps in circulation are definately imbalanced (but this perception can be skewed by player skill levels). Map balance is a fine tuned mechanism that can be achieved much more easily with a solid plan. So, by all means jump right in -- but know that you're going to have to think about it before or after you make the map. Before is a much better choice.
As a mapper you are forced to imagine the contenders of your map are completely equal, so as to not favor either. The criteria for map balance, you ask? Well, there are the basics --
1)time between starting locations
2)siege ranges.
There should be little variation between these things unless you have a countermeasure. Other considerations include:
3)RT spread -- (the ns_nothing example provides the imbalance in the situation -- at least 5 RTs are extremly proximal and can be taken advantage of by RINES).
4)cover for skulks, lerks, onii
5)range vs melee balance (long corridors favor range -- twisting corridors / corners are necessary for map balance)
6)skulk/flying creature accomodation (vents, etc)
7)bile bomb spots
8)balanced starting rooms with adequate ability for natural defense (relates to #6, #7, #4, #5)
and alot of other stuff. basically, a ######fest
They also talked about "spider-views" in a map which describes the circulation of a team. but this doesn't represent modern NS games which is much more like a pressure cooker -- marines expand into the map whereas aliens defend. Marines seem much more offensive than aliens, although the inverse can definately be true.
And, I'll require help....getting it set to NS. Please PM me toxic.
I've found though that some people can't write that way. They do far better beginning to write on invidiual paragraphs and then individual sections and then piece them together like you would with a paper menagerie.
I think maps can be done in the same way. So I guess that begs the question, how do you write a big paper? If you do well to start with the big picture first, you should probably create the basis of the rooms (make'em as big cubes at first and then add details later) and maintain spacial relationships between the rooms intact. The details will start by adding a shape and dimension to the room then the ramps and slopes to navigate the room, and then the individual details themselves like railings and wall design.
Inversely, perhaps one better accustomed to writing a paper from the bottom up would rather begin on individual rooms and ideas for map concepts which plug into individual room designs and later become connected with other rooms as the map begins to take shape.
I think it's also important to consider how to construct a room. In general, the idea of making a map is sort of like 'hollowing out' solid material as you would if you were mining an underground cave. However, once you have a basic shape for a room, what do you do to enhance it? You can either add to it or subtract from it. I notice most mappers prefer adding to, though I think this produces very predictable maps, in that they're all of a box shape with concave wall design and boxes or obstacles spread throughout. I think one shouldn't forget to subtract from rooms to 'add' to them. Producing a section of the room a meter or so below the other gives a player a sensation like you would have if you were exploring an underground cave, for example climbing up stairs or climbing down ladders to arrive at new sections of the map, even if it is the same room technically.
I think that a great map takes into account all ways of constructing a map, and I think the great mappers are the ones which push themselves to construct maps in ways they would otherwise disregard in order to find a nice balance.
After I get the major rooms done, I make the connections, and Secondary rooms, then, when all are done, I put them in the puzzle box and connect them. I only do basic shapes then 'add' if I'm making a large map, by large, I mean large.