Haha!
True_Believer
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8074Members
Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8074Members
<div class="IPBDescription">a strategy that consistently works</div> finally, after several tests on a few maps (cant recall which ones) ive found a marine strat that is almost failsafe. theres only 2 things that can really ruin it easily. 1) stacked/uneven teams or 2) a disobeying team. that being said heres the strat! (if you already know it, awesome. this is for those that havent figured it out)
i call it res hopping. its pretty much impossible to bust. the marines biggest problem is resources. most people wanna secure every resource they get, since they are the key to winning the game, which is quite understandable. however, its in general a losing strategy. while it can work, it slows down the team HORRIBLY.
having 2 or 3 locked down resources towers that can last the game is good, but throughout the game you really only get about 6 resources per tick or something like that. this well generally lead to a loss since you cant meet the demand of your troops with your supply of weapons, which will generally be around an hmg or 2 (maybe a GL) and a couple suits of armor.
spreading this out over an 7-8 man team ruins your chances of a win. because with your current strategy (securing every res) you probably dont own a hive (and if you do its just 1, and probably weakly defended) and they probably have fades. alright. for those fortunate enough to get a weapon AND armor, its probably about 1 person per 3 man group or so and hes generally the last left to die. 1 fade can easily kill any of those groups. if you divide the weaponry evenly, you get strongly offensive soldiers who die in 3 hits or strongly defensive soldiers who pretty much cant kill **obscenity**. now with some teamwork and a couple welders you could capture a res, maybe 2.
this strategy is obviously flawed and as i said, will generally end in a loss. now, my strategy.. i dont think ive lost with. well actually once, but thats because no one would be anything quick enough or go to waypoints. that falls under the disobedient team flaw.
anyway, res hopping is where you just go from res to res and taking it, and leaving it. security doesnt matter. resource towers are tough to kill for skulks and if one is taken out, youve probably gotten a good 10-15 resources out of it first, and youve built probably 3 or more other res towers, leading you to a quick advancement. you dont stop to fortify any res installments UNLESS its a critical spot (a la the reactor in nothing [i think] or atmospheric in bast). even then early on you really only need 2 or 3 sentrys to cover pretty much any possible angle and those 3 sentrys can easily kill any skulks/gorges that come by. but if theres nothing seriously important (a la nancy [though some could argue the mess hall is crucial]) you just go go go. especially in nancy the resource points for the marines are pretty much in a line. it takes me about 1 minute to set up home defenses (if the marines cooperate) and then i send em to the closest one. then on to the mess hall, then up the stairs, then to the hive. in a good 10 minutes or less ive hit the hive with 5 resources towers already, and if 1 falls, i still have 4, and in these 10 minutes i have about 50 extra resources with more pouring in letting me easily defend the hive and set up a phase gate within the first 15 mins and have an arms lab and/or prototype in construction.
also during lulls in the action i can further fortify base or the hive and maybe snag another res or so. its a really awesome strat. like i said, its almost impossible to break. try it yourself, you wont be disappointed.
i call it res hopping. its pretty much impossible to bust. the marines biggest problem is resources. most people wanna secure every resource they get, since they are the key to winning the game, which is quite understandable. however, its in general a losing strategy. while it can work, it slows down the team HORRIBLY.
having 2 or 3 locked down resources towers that can last the game is good, but throughout the game you really only get about 6 resources per tick or something like that. this well generally lead to a loss since you cant meet the demand of your troops with your supply of weapons, which will generally be around an hmg or 2 (maybe a GL) and a couple suits of armor.
spreading this out over an 7-8 man team ruins your chances of a win. because with your current strategy (securing every res) you probably dont own a hive (and if you do its just 1, and probably weakly defended) and they probably have fades. alright. for those fortunate enough to get a weapon AND armor, its probably about 1 person per 3 man group or so and hes generally the last left to die. 1 fade can easily kill any of those groups. if you divide the weaponry evenly, you get strongly offensive soldiers who die in 3 hits or strongly defensive soldiers who pretty much cant kill **obscenity**. now with some teamwork and a couple welders you could capture a res, maybe 2.
this strategy is obviously flawed and as i said, will generally end in a loss. now, my strategy.. i dont think ive lost with. well actually once, but thats because no one would be anything quick enough or go to waypoints. that falls under the disobedient team flaw.
anyway, res hopping is where you just go from res to res and taking it, and leaving it. security doesnt matter. resource towers are tough to kill for skulks and if one is taken out, youve probably gotten a good 10-15 resources out of it first, and youve built probably 3 or more other res towers, leading you to a quick advancement. you dont stop to fortify any res installments UNLESS its a critical spot (a la the reactor in nothing [i think] or atmospheric in bast). even then early on you really only need 2 or 3 sentrys to cover pretty much any possible angle and those 3 sentrys can easily kill any skulks/gorges that come by. but if theres nothing seriously important (a la nancy [though some could argue the mess hall is crucial]) you just go go go. especially in nancy the resource points for the marines are pretty much in a line. it takes me about 1 minute to set up home defenses (if the marines cooperate) and then i send em to the closest one. then on to the mess hall, then up the stairs, then to the hive. in a good 10 minutes or less ive hit the hive with 5 resources towers already, and if 1 falls, i still have 4, and in these 10 minutes i have about 50 extra resources with more pouring in letting me easily defend the hive and set up a phase gate within the first 15 mins and have an arms lab and/or prototype in construction.
also during lulls in the action i can further fortify base or the hive and maybe snag another res or so. its a really awesome strat. like i said, its almost impossible to break. try it yourself, you wont be disappointed.
Comments
I tend to grab two or three nodes on the way to a hive, leaving them as is, unless someone has a few extra mines on them.
I throw up defenses in all hives though, and the first thing I do is usually grabing a hive and building a resource tower, then a phasegate, and after that a TF, and three turrets to start with, and more later when I get more resources, or if the area becomes a hotspot.
"(if you already know it, awesome. this is for those that havent figured it out)"
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Also do the same to turrets when the factory goes down, If I know there is no way to get reinforcements there to take it back in time... It is easier then trying to have you team run all around the map trying to defend nodes under attack and it gives those skulks something to waste their time on, instead of eating my marines..
Texas Ranger <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If I'm playing alien, my primary mission early on in the game is to parasite marines and kill undefended resource towers. Yea, I don't kill marines unless they interfere with me or are a fair bit outside the base. Killing marines IN base is pretty senseless - especially parasited marines!. I prefer killing them a fair bit outside the base, preferably when they are building something.
2 skulks can kill a res tower in about 20 seconds.
Why do ppl always post strategies that simply won't work against and opposition with a brain. Maybe people think we won, so my strategy must be good. Not that maybe the enemy team is bad or anything.
Go try leaving res points completely undefended in a clan match against an organised team.
See how it works then.
Happy hunting, Mark
<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> POW!!! <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> OH NOW!!! They have built a siege outside the hive location I just lost a whole lot of recourses building that hive
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Nottingham - at leats over 60 in IQ
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The moment you leave the res point,its going to get chomped.....
If you take time to build defenses around said resource tower, you spend a minimum of another 82 resources, for 3 turrets. An alien team "with a brain" would suicide rush one of those 3 turrets, kill the TF and the resource tower.
You're also waiting about 5 minutes before that resource tower + defenses pays for itself.
So which would you rather have? 5 resource nodes, all of whom start giving you benefits within a minute, but could be destroyed in about that time by any random skulk, or 1 weakly secured resource node that you won't see the benefits for 5 minutes and could be easily destroyed by a few skulks with a brain anyway?
The key is to be ATTACKING while you do this. Put pressure on that alien team so those skulks have to make a choice - spend a minute chomping on a node, or help their teammates secure that 2nd hive?
Personally, I think marines should go for hives right off the bat - most have a resource node in them, and they're worth turretting up. So you get a node and a hive for that 82 extra resources, instead of just a node.
THAT is worth it. Just plop down a few random nodes when you can, and they'll quickly pay for themselves and give you lots of resources.
What if they're destroyed?
Look at it this way, you spent 22 resources building it. If you put defenses and it was destroyed you would have lost 104 resources - almost enough money to buy it 3 more times.
I'd rather risk placing the same node 4 times than give it inadequate defense that could be better used someplace else.
Hell, I'd rather put it toward motion tracking and a couple phase gates. That would help the team a lot more....
when you're trying to rush for the hive, you need all available resources and marines rushing the hive after they defend the rush.
without the marines grouped up fully, in the base asap, you give the aliens a chance to setup ambush in hive. with enough marines, i can have them engage the enemy and setup gate while they live long enough for me to drop health like a mad man.
if i build 2 resource turrets in the time on the way to a hive. that costs me 44 RP. my marines can get to the base in 30 seconds. that means that i have all my marines idle in hive waiting for me to get back my 33 resources
if they're actually waiting in hive, it means i can't drop as much health/ammo and we risk giving them a foothold in the a hive which we desperately need.
Since I learned that siege guns are supposed to fire through walls I am often surprised when they are used in line of sight of their target. your tactic is sound and sensible. The area looks secure to the unsuspecting gorge so doesn't come under the bombardment of fades then 'SPLAT'. If they're newbies, you might even get them twice!
I guess this will change as commanders get more experience.
Nope, I have to say Marine portals (whatever the teleporters are called) are essential.
nice point about the recycle function, I haven't tried it yet.
Of course, smart aliens are pretty rare, so you can get away with it in most games.
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I agree with this tactic 110% and it has paid off for me much more than I have lost. As a matter of fact, unless the RP is in a choke point, I NEVER put turrets there.
One problem though, this would be a lot more resonable strategy if the freaking mini-map worked right. Once built, it always shows up as a blue dot on your screen weather there or not. I've actually lost hives in my early command because I expected the blue dots to dissappear if my stucture was destoryed. And if the nano-net can inform you that a stucture is under attack, it sure as hell could make the one that is blink yellow on the map. This needs fixed badly.
ANY-WAYS... The one move that works against either dumb or smart aliens is securing that first hive. That's the first thing on the agenda, always. A few turrets in base, a few nodes on the way, and a few turrets in the hive location, and then you go claiming all those open nodes (even experienced gorges are slow to put up alien res towers, and marines can just put 'em up quick and start sucking in the points!). Also, sieges take a while... don't wait for 'em, LMGs come for free! Remember: Once you have that first hive all cozy, you're halfway to victory! Also note that if the marines (and the comm) are fast enough, they can lock down TWO hives, and make mulch outta them lil Kharaa worms!
Also, nobody is noting that strategies will change also due to TEAM SIZE. A team of 20 people on a huge server can claim res left and right while tucking into a hive spot. 6 people, however, will have to crawl along and will take eons just building and defending the main base. They might even get wasted by skulks while securing a hive. In the first few minutes, make sure you claim at least 2 res spots, or you won't be able to build fast enough... NEVER leave one guy to build a res node (unless that hive's secure and there's nothing else to do)... always have at least 2 or 3 guys building. And yes, no matter how you comm, you can't put turret farms around every other node. If you only have small groups running around putting up res and getting skulked, your team sucks, and you lose.
Some of all this is common-NS-sense. But I can't emphasize how important nabbing that first hive is. It's dangerous to wait more than a few minutes! <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Build the sentries where the resources are. In eclipse, that means inside the hive, and in something like ns_nothing, that means right outside the hives, (Exception of ventilation).
I've got an even worse thing for you to do. Go ahead and send a marine or two deep into alien territory. Have your marines plant mines directly on the resource nozzles closest to the alien's start location, those which you don't think you can hold.
That mine means that if a gorge starts building a tower, it gets destroyed and he gets killed. And before they have 2 hive aliens, the only real way to get rid of it is to have a skulk voluntarily sacrifice himself to the mine god. And having a teammate do that on the aliens side is somewhat rare, especially if you consider that most good skulks probably aren't right next to that resource nozzle.
Mines can be fun!
I've got an even worse thing for you to do. Go ahead and send a marine or two deep into alien territory. Have your marines plant mines directly on the resource nozzles closest to the alien's start location, those which you don't think you can hold.
That mine means that if a gorge starts building a tower, it gets destroyed and he gets killed. And before they have 2 hive aliens, the only real way to get rid of it is to have a skulk voluntarily sacrifice himself to the mine god. And having a teammate do that on the aliens side is somewhat rare, especially if you consider that most good skulks probably aren't right next to that resource nozzle.
Mines can be fun!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes they are! They are one of the most underused resources in the game. There's 101 uses for mines early game, and just a few less late game.
We got to the hive and were able to secure it with plenty of cash, but after that our resources dryed up. Because we didn't have any relable nodes, we wern't getting resources fast enough to build up any momentum or to defend nodes.
Altough I like this strategy, it needs some refining, straight expansion isn't gonna do it against a smart alien team, as many have said.