KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
edited November 2002
If it's really your favorite mod, you'll gladly play it whether or not consistency is enabled. And get over yourself - most people really aren't going to notice if you uninstall NS over something as pathetically petty as this.
Perhaps if there are that many admins running the consistency checks (which they have to turn on in the first place), it is instead the players that have to wake up...? Nah.
And Fopher, I recommend you adjust your gamma to the proper levels. "private sun" my **obscenity**... I won't even comment on the rest of your post. I think BathroomMonkey did a perfect job of that already.
Admins are still just players, only they're running a server. Their opinions mean nothing, except the fact that they can force it on other players.
Anyway, I think it will be very interesting to watch this whole conflict over the next few months. New models or no new models, this mod is fantastic. I just hope it doesn't turn inside-out. Atleast the devs made the option off by default. I don't think they intend to try to ruin a part of the community. They just want to keep their game the way it was meant to be played, and without corruption. Unfortunatly, the modelling community suffers a small blow from it.
Remember, there is always room for change. Enjoy NS for what it is now.
Yup, still the first good new game for ages..( by "new game" I mean "new game" as opposed to a high poly tarting up of an existing game, ala UT2k3 etc..). To quote someone from UK whose name eludes me.." Best thing to happen to my games folder for ages.."
Fond as I am of my snazzy new pulse rifle models ( nothing wrong with the default models, but everyone loves pulse rifles...), I aint going to stop playing just because I have to go with defaults..I think a lot of people should stop their constant bitching and maybe appreciate that quite a few peeps have expended quite a bit of time and effort to bring you a splendid FREE game..How much money did you spend this year on far inferior "commercial games" ?
End of the day, it is THEIR game, if they want to tweak it or set ground rules , leave it to them I say..they probably won't arse it up....done OK so far aint they?
hmm. the only gripe i really have with this forcing model consitancy is the v_ models. i can understand the problem with the skulk, and it really pisses me off when people use these simple, stupid hacks to better their score. however, instead of forcing v_ models to get rid of it, why not change it so that the visual inconvenience of biting with the skulk didn't rely on the model? make the screen fade black for a moment when you bite? then i can keep my un-llama-ish pulse rifle and black pistol, which are purely for cosmetic value. god i hope not too many servers turn this on. i hope i hope i hope i hope i hope i hope i hope i hope
Why not just lock the Skulk v_ model and let people do what they want with the rest? Seems totally illogical to include v_ models in any server-side lockdown: It's like locking the menu graphics, there's no point to doing it.
Except for this, maybe:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They just want to keep their game the way it was meant to be played, and without corruption<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, I heard they were doing it to stop cheating, not to enforce their 'atmosphere' on the playing population. Go back and read the news update on 1.03.
In that case it does not make sense to lock the marine v_models, unless you consider the pitiful 5 fps and non-important screen locations that get 'freed up' to be cheating. I don't consider that cheating and I would bet most people here don't, either. I think the benefit of model customization outweighs the disadvantage of worrying about people using null v_ models.
Also, having changable marine v_ models on a locked server would allow those of us who enjoy custom models to ensure we're on a more secure server. Now, if we want to use custom models, it'll be more difficult to ensure server security for those people.
I'm still glad they made this a server option and not a global lockdown.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm thinking of leaving these forums since the release. Where did all the hostile 6-year old rebels come from? Please stop posting your compleately uninteresting opinions and go with the flow. <b>NS rocks just as much, if not much more, with original models! End of story?!</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that would be your opinion, now, wouldn't it?
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->End of the day, it is THEIR game, if they want to tweak it or set ground rules , leave it to them I say..they probably won't arse it up....done OK so far aint they? <!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
I agree, it is their game and they can do whatever the hell they want with it. I think it is helpful for any development team to understand the issues people have with their game... most dev teams are responsive to the community, even if they aren't getting paid. If enough people make intelligent (i.e. non-flamatory and mature) posts about marine v_ model locking over a period of time, then I'd assume they would listen and change it, even though they "don't have to" because it's their mod that we didn't pay money for.
Either that, or someone comes up with resonable arguments for locking marine v_ models <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I also think the "I'm leaving" by most people are hollow threats. I play NS for the teamwork and gameplay dynamics and I assume most of the rest of us do, too. I may not agree with the v_ model lock (the rest is okay) but that isn't a real good reason for me to leave.
Sorry to revive this old topic but a point must be made:
My favourite servers (gamex2s.com #1 and 2) after upgrading to 1.03 also decided to enforce model consistency. I am a great fan of using different models, the ones supplied by the modders themselves are more than functional but unfortunately they have to accomodate for everyone, so high poly defaults are a no no for those unfortunate peeps wiv low system specs (i was once there myself <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->), keeping that in mind i tend to go for higher poly custom models (i used to have the latest pulse rifle model and the alien pack, gj guys theyre very good). Now to the point, dispite being a great fan of custom models, i reluctantly removed them from my models dir and replaced them with the originals, why you may ask? Simply because the mod is fantastic, and by far my favourite (recently gave up div1 tfc cus it was way too serious), i know its a shame custom models are sacrificed, but the game is brilliant, get out and play with the defaults, it won't hurt i promise. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ofcourse it's my opinion! Whos opinion should i state? Yours?
All I'm saying is that there was a time when the posts were smart... And interesting. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You were telling us to stop posting our boring and unintersting opinions, then you decided to post yours. I just thought it was a bit hypocritical to tell us to stop giving OUR opinion then turn around and do it yourself <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> That's why I quoted you.
I actually happen to think the posts on this topic are very interesting. Usually we see people griping about how they don't like people doing AvP models or saying "that looks good," but it's a nice change of pace to be able to intelligently discuss a semi-important issue in the mod's development. It's even more interesting knowing that at least one Dev member probabably reads some posts here. Furthermore, I'm interested in seeing what they do for future releases; are they going to unlock marine v_ models or are they going to continue keeping them locked on 'consistent' servers? I think a lot of people would be interested in that as well.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the question is, if this was a retail game and the models got locked would anyone complain? probably not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the question is, if this was a retail game and the models got locked would anyone complain? probably not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would... if I paid 50 dollars for a game and didn't like something about it (but otherwise liked the game as a whole), I would definately bring it up with the developers. As for NS, bringing up issues is more or less of a 'Hey maybe you missed this...' or 'You could make your mod even better if...' since they don't really owe us anything; after all we didn't pay them and they're doing this for free.
But back to the quote.
The question is, if I bought said retail product and they locked the models AFTER it hit the shelves (e.g., a patch locked them) then I'd complain. But if it was locked in the initial 1.0 release then I'd probably not mind, since I'd go into the store knowing that this was the case.
I still might bring up the issue if I thought the game would be a lot better without the model lock.
As for NS, I don't really have a problem with their consistency check. It just irks me that they seem to be locking a lot of v_ models when they don't have to be doing it. I feel the game would be better as a whole if we were able to use custom v_ models on 'consistent' servers. The whole deal with consistency is to prevent cheating; yet changing the marine v_ models is not a cheat by my standards and I bet most people would tend to agree. Thus you have a logic error, and possibly room to improve the game.
can someone please post the original models for the game up somewhere? as i was using the black reskin models, and now i can play on hardly any servers, as most of them are enforcing model consistency.
Their seems to be a lot of people in this forum that are not in great favour of the model consistency, yet alot of people are complaining about the fact they cant find any servers that dont inforce the consistancy. That seems a little odd tbh. Try playing on clan servers for example.
As of yet I have not found a single server that is checking model consistency, so perhaps I am one of the lucky ones hey
Anyway my two cence on the subject. The models as standard are easily playable with, how ever like other games, "Startrek Bridge Commander for example" the modeling community seems to bring out more elaborate and imo better looking models than the development team release.
The question is, how is it possible for a community to release better models, why are these ppl not working for the game companies, bringing us the models in the first place???
One of the people that come to mind on these forums in "MrGibbs" who I belive is currently creating StarCraft models for NS, (imo nothing wrong with this) ofc I can understand why the NS team could not do this, (licecing etc). It would be very nice to not just see these models but to also play with them on a daily basis.
I currenly just have the new LMG by "DuoMaxwell", this is in deed a very nice model, and some how I just feel more at home, when iIplay with the models that I choose.
I think we all know just how old the Quake2 engine is, so surly replacing the models, in essence making the game look better, just brings it closer to the games of the time, (UT2K3/D2) for example. And hopefully this will help the game/mod to survive that little longer.
Well thier you go, I have tried to be balanced in my efforts, hope the development team actually read this topic, and deicide that custom models aint such as bad thing,
P.S - If people are using v_models to cheet, I wouldnt worry cause it isn't going to be long untill a 3rd party product is realeased that will circumvent all the anti-cheat technology devs put in to the game anyway, it is inevatable.
Have a nice day <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--t1mmy+Nov 28 2002, 07:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (t1mmy @ Nov 28 2002, 07:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think we all know just how old the Quake2 engine is, so surly replacing the models, in essence making the game look better<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I dunno if its what you meant, but half life is based on the quake1 engine
Comments
Perhaps if there are that many admins running the consistency checks (which they have to turn on in the first place), it is instead the players that have to wake up...? Nah.
And Fopher, I recommend you adjust your gamma to the proper levels. "private sun" my **obscenity**... I won't even comment on the rest of your post. I think BathroomMonkey did a perfect job of that already.
Anyway, I think it will be very interesting to watch this whole conflict over the next few months. New models or no new models, this mod is fantastic. I just hope it doesn't turn inside-out. Atleast the devs made the option off by default. I don't think they intend to try to ruin a part of the community. They just want to keep their game the way it was meant to be played, and without corruption. Unfortunatly, the modelling community suffers a small blow from it.
Remember, there is always room for change. Enjoy NS for what it is now.
Yup, still the first good new game for ages..( by "new game" I mean "new game" as opposed to a high poly tarting up of an existing game, ala UT2k3 etc..). To quote someone from UK whose name eludes me.." Best thing to happen to my games folder for ages.."
Fond as I am of my snazzy new pulse rifle models ( nothing wrong with the default models, but everyone loves pulse rifles...), I aint going to stop playing just because I have to go with defaults..I think a lot of people should stop their constant bitching and maybe appreciate that quite a few peeps have expended quite a bit of time and effort to bring you a splendid FREE game..How much money did you spend this year on far inferior "commercial games" ?
End of the day, it is THEIR game, if they want to tweak it or set ground rules , leave it to them I say..they probably won't arse it up....done OK so far aint they?
Except for this, maybe:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They just want to keep their game the way it was meant to be played, and without corruption<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, I heard they were doing it to stop cheating, not to enforce their 'atmosphere' on the playing population. Go back and read the news update on 1.03.
In that case it does not make sense to lock the marine v_models, unless you consider the pitiful 5 fps and non-important screen locations that get 'freed up' to be cheating. I don't consider that cheating and I would bet most people here don't, either. I think the benefit of model customization outweighs the disadvantage of worrying about people using null v_ models.
Also, having changable marine v_ models on a locked server would allow those of us who enjoy custom models to ensure we're on a more secure server. Now, if we want to use custom models, it'll be more difficult to ensure server security for those people.
I'm still glad they made this a server option and not a global lockdown.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm thinking of leaving these forums since the release. Where did all the hostile 6-year old rebels come from? Please stop posting your compleately uninteresting opinions and go with the flow. <b>NS rocks just as much, if not much more, with original models! End of story?!</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that would be your opinion, now, wouldn't it?
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->End of the day, it is THEIR game, if they want to tweak it or set ground rules , leave it to them I say..they probably won't arse it up....done OK so far aint they? <!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
I agree, it is their game and they can do whatever the hell they want with it. I think it is helpful for any development team to understand the issues people have with their game... most dev teams are responsive to the community, even if they aren't getting paid. If enough people make intelligent (i.e. non-flamatory and mature) posts about marine v_ model locking over a period of time, then I'd assume they would listen and change it, even though they "don't have to" because it's their mod that we didn't pay money for.
Either that, or someone comes up with resonable arguments for locking marine v_ models <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I also think the "I'm leaving" by most people are hollow threats. I play NS for the teamwork and gameplay dynamics and I assume most of the rest of us do, too. I may not agree with the v_ model lock (the rest is okay) but that isn't a real good reason for me to leave.
Just my 2 cents.
All I'm saying is that there was a time when the posts were smart... And interesting.
My favourite servers (gamex2s.com #1 and 2) after upgrading to 1.03 also decided to enforce model consistency. I am a great fan of using different models, the ones supplied by the modders themselves are more than functional but unfortunately they have to accomodate for everyone, so high poly defaults are a no no for those unfortunate peeps wiv low system specs (i was once there myself <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->), keeping that in mind i tend to go for higher poly custom models (i used to have the latest pulse rifle model and the alien pack, gj guys theyre very good). Now to the point, dispite being a great fan of custom models, i reluctantly removed them from my models dir and replaced them with the originals, why you may ask? Simply because the mod is fantastic, and by far my favourite (recently gave up div1 tfc cus it was way too serious), i know its a shame custom models are sacrificed, but the game is brilliant, get out and play with the defaults, it won't hurt i promise.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
All I'm saying is that there was a time when the posts were smart... And interesting. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You were telling us to stop posting our boring and unintersting opinions, then you decided to post yours. I just thought it was a bit hypocritical to tell us to stop giving OUR opinion then turn around and do it yourself <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> That's why I quoted you.
I actually happen to think the posts on this topic are very interesting. Usually we see people griping about how they don't like people doing AvP models or saying "that looks good," but it's a nice change of pace to be able to intelligently discuss a semi-important issue in the mod's development. It's even more interesting knowing that at least one Dev member probabably reads some posts here. Furthermore, I'm interested in seeing what they do for future releases; are they going to unlock marine v_ models or are they going to continue keeping them locked on 'consistent' servers? I think a lot of people would be interested in that as well.
But once again, that's just an opinion.
they probably would..
I would... if I paid 50 dollars for a game and didn't like something about it (but otherwise liked the game as a whole), I would definately bring it up with the developers. As for NS, bringing up issues is more or less of a 'Hey maybe you missed this...' or 'You could make your mod even better if...' since they don't really owe us anything; after all we didn't pay them and they're doing this for free.
But back to the quote.
The question is, if I bought said retail product and they locked the models AFTER it hit the shelves (e.g., a patch locked them) then I'd complain. But if it was locked in the initial 1.0 release then I'd probably not mind, since I'd go into the store knowing that this was the case.
I still might bring up the issue if I thought the game would be a lot better without the model lock.
As for NS, I don't really have a problem with their consistency check. It just irks me that they seem to be locking a lot of v_ models when they don't have to be doing it. I feel the game would be better as a whole if we were able to use custom v_ models on 'consistent' servers. The whole deal with consistency is to prevent cheating; yet changing the marine v_ models is not a cheat by my standards and I bet most people would tend to agree. Thus you have a logic error, and possibly room to improve the game.
Their seems to be a lot of people in this forum that are not in great favour of the model consistency, yet alot of people are complaining about the fact they cant find any servers that dont inforce the consistancy. That seems a little odd tbh. Try playing on clan servers for example.
As of yet I have not found a single server that is checking model consistency, so perhaps I am one of the lucky ones hey
Anyway my two cence on the subject. The models as standard are easily playable with, how ever like other games, "Startrek Bridge Commander for example" the modeling community seems to bring out more elaborate and imo better looking models than the development team release.
The question is, how is it possible for a community to release better models, why are these ppl not working for the game companies, bringing us the models in the first place???
One of the people that come to mind on these forums in "MrGibbs" who I belive is currently creating StarCraft models for NS, (imo nothing wrong with this) ofc I can understand why the NS team could not do this, (licecing etc). It would be very nice to not just see these models but to also play with them on a daily basis.
I currenly just have the new LMG by "DuoMaxwell", this is in deed a very nice model, and some how I just feel more at home, when iIplay with the models that I choose.
I think we all know just how old the Quake2 engine is, so surly replacing the models, in essence making the game look better, just brings it closer to the games of the time, (UT2K3/D2) for example. And hopefully this will help the game/mod to survive that little longer.
Well thier you go, I have tried to be balanced in my efforts, hope the development team actually read this topic, and deicide that custom models aint such as bad thing,
P.S - If people are using v_models to cheet, I wouldnt worry cause it isn't going to be long untill a 3rd party product is realeased that will circumvent all the anti-cheat technology devs put in to the game anyway, it is inevatable.
Have a nice day <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think we all know just how old the Quake2 engine is, so surly replacing the models, in essence making the game look better<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno if its what you meant, but half life is based on the quake1 engine