NS2 Combat
rook2pawn
Join Date: 2008-07-03 Member: 64552Members
Join Date: 2008-07-03 Member: 64552Members
I know the FAQ says blah blah it was intended for helping newbies learn NS but combat is immensely more fun.
NS the game is a joke. Its fun, it was the smartest game to be developed at its time, it still remains one of the smartest
and intense games today, etc.. <b>But its just considered a JOKE by the rest of the game world. </b>
Unreal, CS, Quake : Not a joke, by everyone else's measure.
Those who say NS Combat is unbalanced or turned into an xmenu/buildmenu fest dont understand what discussing the xmenu configs and
talking and testing and tweaking these options are like. There are forums where you discuss how to make
things correct. Not taking advantage of the years of knowledge from combat vets is a real put-off.
I personally feel that the official developers take high offense at xmenu/buildmenu because a) its super popular
b) gametracker shows that combat is ALWAYS in the top 5 if not TOP 3 most played version of NS
c) noobs end up having a serious NEGATIVE contribution in helping their team (i.e. a noob would have been better off on a the enemy team
or better dead the entire game)
d) the developers dont like a game that is immensely noob-unfriendly (i.e. going rhine and dying the moment you spawn for 50 minutes)
I'd like to see a serious push to get NS2 to get "recognized" as a real game by the game community. Without combat, there is NO CHANCE
for NS2 to draw anything upon the FPS scene, there is no CHANCE for NS2 to ever get recognized as a legitamate game by say, the WCG,
or CAL/CPL, etc...
Not recognizing/overlooking/pretending-they-dont-exist online communities and professional activism in gaming is going to be a serious
setback for NS2 and well, those are my two cents.
NS the game is a joke. Its fun, it was the smartest game to be developed at its time, it still remains one of the smartest
and intense games today, etc.. <b>But its just considered a JOKE by the rest of the game world. </b>
Unreal, CS, Quake : Not a joke, by everyone else's measure.
Those who say NS Combat is unbalanced or turned into an xmenu/buildmenu fest dont understand what discussing the xmenu configs and
talking and testing and tweaking these options are like. There are forums where you discuss how to make
things correct. Not taking advantage of the years of knowledge from combat vets is a real put-off.
I personally feel that the official developers take high offense at xmenu/buildmenu because a) its super popular
b) gametracker shows that combat is ALWAYS in the top 5 if not TOP 3 most played version of NS
c) noobs end up having a serious NEGATIVE contribution in helping their team (i.e. a noob would have been better off on a the enemy team
or better dead the entire game)
d) the developers dont like a game that is immensely noob-unfriendly (i.e. going rhine and dying the moment you spawn for 50 minutes)
I'd like to see a serious push to get NS2 to get "recognized" as a real game by the game community. Without combat, there is NO CHANCE
for NS2 to draw anything upon the FPS scene, there is no CHANCE for NS2 to ever get recognized as a legitamate game by say, the WCG,
or CAL/CPL, etc...
Not recognizing/overlooking/pretending-they-dont-exist online communities and professional activism in gaming is going to be a serious
setback for NS2 and well, those are my two cents.
Comments
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=rook2pawn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rook2pawn)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a) its super popular
b) gametracker shows that combat is ALWAYS in the top 5 if not TOP 3 most played version of NS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Even if they are playing a highly modified version of Combat, they are still playing NS, and that's good. While I personally would love to see those people playing Classic instead of xmenu/buildmenu Combat I'm happy they are playing NS at all.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=rook2pawn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rook2pawn)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->c) noobs end up having a serious NEGATIVE contribution in helping their team (i.e. a noob would have been better off on a the enemy team or better dead the entire game)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm not sure how xmenu/buildmenu Combat would be different from either Classic or vanilla Combat in this respect.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=rook2pawn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rook2pawn)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->d) the developers dont like a game that is immensely noob-unfriendly (i.e. going rhine and dying the moment you spawn for 50 minutes)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Natural Selection has a brutal learning curve for brand-new players. Vanilla Combat is definitely easier to pickup than Classic (and as you noted, that was one of its goals), but this is the first time I've heard someone claim that xmenu/buildmenu Combat is harder for new players than Classic (if that is what you are trying to say). xmenu/buildmenu Combat definitely has more to learn than just vanilla Combat, but even from the limited amount of it I've played the layout and menus make it pretty easy for even a new player to figure out how it works and what to do.
and, the be-all-end-all of a game is not to be featured in WCG anyway
someone sounds angry... play the game for fun or don't play, simple <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
talking and testing and tweaking these options are like. There are forums where you discuss how to make
things correct. Not taking advantage of the years of knowledge from combat vets is a real put-off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Combat is a joke. It's a poorly balanced game mode, even before all the game-altering plugins are added. The gameplay depth is much lower than classic mode as well.
NS had CAL support before (classic mode, not combat), so you're obviously wrong. As far as I'm concerned, combat is to NS as gungame is to CS.
Also: This guy is a troll.
The reason I started playing NS was because it was so damn fun, you actually had stuff to do, and you needed at least some form of intelligence to play (and not just reflexes)
And as someone who started playing before the existence of Combat, everyone joining the game had to play Classic. They were usually helped (at least I helped) and those who enjoyed their experience came back. And eventually became good players.
Now with Combat, people join the game, consider Classic too complicated, and turn towards Combat and claim themselves to be NS players, without looking back to Classic. I have nothing against people who enjoy Combat, except when it steals from the Classic population.
I know you'll be saying that Combat is a first step towards Classic but it's usually not the case. You usually have only one chance to satisfy your customer, and he'll stay on his first impression. People will play NS, find Combat to be somewhat accessible, and stay there until he grows bored of NS altogether. Why bother learning to play Classic when you can play Combat? It's the same atmosphere, hell it's the same game. People usually won't look any further.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->b) gametracker shows that combat is ALWAYS in the top 5 if not TOP 3 most played version of NS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oO Did I miss something or are there versions of NS other than Classic and Combat?
So, yes. Classic is what makes NS awesome. The whole RTS/FPS blend is what we love about it. Combat is merely an asymmetric FPS slug fest, something done much better in say CS or Enemy Territory. However, I wouldn't discredit it as being useless or something that we should actively persecute.
ya Really, if yall have played with the CS:S people....you don't want them on NS2 from the lot of 8-13 year olds, to the team killing craze. I just think NS2 would be killed by them.
(some CS:S players are good and nice ppl and yes I have played it enough to know NS1 is the better game.)
Natural Selection is pretty well recognized as the best of HL1 mods.
As far as the "harm" of xmenu and buildmenu, I don't really think the devs would take it as an insult. If the community is not content with something, and they have the tools to correct it themselves, then they should do so as the devs can focus on more important areas.
And hey, maybe that's the message being given by making it all in Lua now. Could that be possible? Lua makes it incredibly easy for the community to do as they please with the game.
Combat included as a primary gamemode would be a bother to me. However there are some bloodthirsty people out there that don't enjoy the strategy of NS, and so thus a Combat gamemode is likely to be made in no time (and quite likely not by one of those bloodthirsty people but by someone with talent and consideration towards those that want such a mode)...
NS2 should have a tutorial and better handling of small games, but Combat is not the solution for either. It dilutes the real gameplay and divides the community. Maybe there should be a special ruleset that removes commanders and just automatically handles basebuilding, but can only be used below 6v6?
Yes, yes we do.
Well, not us, but the developers/publishers/investors do.
Money makes the world go round. $$$
Battlefield was played in CAL, NS was played in CAL, combat was never played in CAL.
I like combat, it's fun, but the whole thread is irrelevant because if there is never a combat mode made for NS2 it's only going to take like 2 weeks for someone to release a combat mode mod for NS2. Lua is pretty much that easy to work with.
- Removed the dependency on the commander, making it a bit easier on individual marines (let's admit it -- the "pure FPS" crowd dominates, so these people really got what they like).
- Took those epic moments from regular NS play and hit you up with them non-stop (like getting chased by an onos? That's scary, huh? Here's four of them!)
- Relatively speaking, CO is pretty unique... it's basically got the same pace as any other of the more popular mods/games (CS/Quake/UT), but you've got the whole aliens vs. marines aspect going for it. I think that brought in a lot of new people and kept them in CO.
I imagine NS2 will change NS game mode to appeal to these players again. I just hope it's not done by trying to reduce the overall time the game lasts.
I'm now inspired to make a visit to the suggestions forum, so off I go...
NS the game is a joke. Its fun, it was the smartest game to be developed at its time, it still remains one of the smartest
and intense games today, etc.. <b>But its just considered a JOKE by the rest of the game world. </b>
Unreal, CS, Quake : Not a joke, by everyone else's measure.
Those who say NS Combat is unbalanced or turned into an xmenu/buildmenu fest dont understand what discussing the xmenu configs and
talking and testing and tweaking these options are like. There are forums where you discuss how to make
things correct. Not taking advantage of the years of knowledge from combat vets is a real put-off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats because people that play Unreal, CS and Quake are unintelligent fools who don't like any strategy above something a 5 year old could work out.
The only people who would think ns_ is a joke as opposed to a masterpiece is someone who doesn't understand it.
In conclusion, you sir, are a moron.
Now my opinion on Combat. I'm not going to say its a joke, as i think its a better game than most other online FPS' out there.
HOWEVER, i play games for one reason. Fun.
Now, what is fun on games? A well achieved, hard earned win.
Now in combat, i want to win, so i do win. Over, and over, and over. Sure, it can be fun, but these days when i play a combat map its more of a *SIGH* Time to put in all that effort to win again. It is just a strategy/tactic lacking skill fest, where the same players always dominate.
Now, something from Left4Dead developers... I dont remember the exact quote, but it was something like.... "You have to give a game high points and low points, and plenty of both. You cannot just have a game full of hardcore action, otherwise players will get burnt out and not want to play. Whereas if there are too many low points, the player just gets bored."
Natural Selection has exactly this, you have some times where youre just wandering around, building, hunting, but nothing very exciting happens. Then suddenly WHAM 5 skulks run at your squad and guns start blazing. Thats exciting. There a down side to dying, you want to live!
NS_ also has amazing strategy and tactic support. Giving every game the possibility to be different and surprising. When you win an ns_ game its like "YEAH!!! GREAT WORK TEAM!!!" (providing the other team weren't a bunch of talentless newbies). Whereas in combat, a game ends and no one really gives a ###### about who won, its not satisfying at all.
Did i mention Combat is the reason NS is not as popular as it used to be? Because it is.
In conclusion, if you like Combat more than Classic, you are still very naive and don't quite understand how Natural Selection actually works.
Infact i'd just like to point out, being a Commander, with countless years in a high level Starcraft games, i find it very easy to tell when people don't actually get what they should be doing. It's not that they go "I dont know what to do", its that they dont get the game as a whole, and find it hard to understand whats going on and what they should be doing. As a result, they end up playing as if they were playing Counter-Strike, where every life is just a little expedition to kill some stuff, and they miss the overall goal.
I think a lot of effort should be put into a very informative, but easy to understand guide to NS2. Including short movies, explaining how games work, why resource nodes are important, etc.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>lol</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1682596:date=Jul 5 2008, 12:39 PM:name=rook2pawn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rook2pawn @ Jul 5 2008, 12:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682596"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the WCG,
or CAL/CPL, etc...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
don't even pretend to know anything about competitive gaming. the CPL is dead, CAL is a joke, and the WCG is mainly noted for RTS games.