A Personal Explanation Of Eclipse.

Comments

• Inexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members

  November 2002

  One comment. If you want to protect any location from Skulk intrusion by way of turrets, you have to keep certain principles in mind. Any potential target of a Skulk must be covered by at least one turret <i>and the target doesn't count</i>. So each turret must also be covered by another turret in order to Skulk-proof the area. Of course, once the Kharaa build up enough cash to get Lerks, all this goes out the window and the only thing between them and a wrecked un-manned outpost is time.

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• matso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer

  November 2002

  True. A single turret can be eaten by a single skulk with a bit of strafing.
  
  A proper quad is difficult though .. you need to eat two turrets to get at the factory, and the first turret is covered by two other turrets, while the second is covered by one other. A hard-to-digest meal.
  
  Ran into a couple of those in a game ... fortunately, the resource towers had an almost-dead angle. *burp*
  
  A tripple is easy though .. knock out one turret and you can eat the rest. Can be done in one, at most two rundtrips .. say, two minutes.

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• Mr_Bean Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members

  November 2002

  Acutal I could as a lurk with regen eat every single one of your outposts in under 20 seconds
  
  Why? I can kill one turret and imeadly have the TF to myself, Turrets are weak takes 22 Bites or so to fully eat one, I can take three bites, duck back wait the 2 seconds, rush, bite bite bite, duck back, and blam free hive in 20-40 seconds depending on how close cover is
  
  Any single Turret will quickly be defeated by skulks, only a
  
  --T---T--
  T|-TF-|T
  --T---T--
  
  As I can't munch it fast enough without taking to much damage
  
  Lurk I can still kill it easy but otherwise that TF will be down, and down fast

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• BoddoZerg Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8380Members

  November 2002

  It takes 6 turrets to make an unguarded tfac secure from Skulks, and ~8 turrets to secure it against Fades. If you have 4 or 5 turrets, I will make 2 suicide runs, killing 2 turrets and creating a blindspot, and on my 3rd run your tfac is dead. (3 suicide skulk runs can occur much faster than you'd think...) 6 well placed turrets will require the skulk to kill 3 turrets, which is impractical considering how fast he dies.
  
  A tfac with 2 turrets is bait for a single Skulk.

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• Sparrow Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10062Members

  November 2002 edited November 2002

  Ahh, predictable Kharaa thinking. "Oh I can do this and take it all out by myself." And how are you going to stay there and defend it after you take it out? What about the group pushing from hive to hive that needs to be stopped while you are too busy taking solo runs? How is a gorge going to defend what you just secured such early in the game?
  
  It reminds me of those funny games, where Aliens have 3 hives and all the uber upgrades and resources. They can take out the marine base with ease.. but what do they do? They take suicide runs at it one by one. They try not to die, but it's no worry for them. Instead of taking out a base in what should be 10 minutes it takes well over half an hour to even get somewhat inside. So they take it out, and what happens? They find out the base was relocated somewhere else, and now 2 of their hives are under siege. Oh yeah I've seen a plenty of those games, where every alien does the rambo routine.
  
  
  Sure one skulk strafing the turret, and which turret would that be? The ones at Station? The 3 turrets at triad? The turrets at Eclipse? There's not as much space between the turret and the factory than you must think. One accidental "getting stuck" will cost you your life.
  
  But anyways, let's go further. The tri-turrets at triad would be kinda hard to strafe successfully don't ya think? I mean there's 3 of them and right outside Eclipse where a Group of marines are waiting to push through. Eclipse would be hard to turret strafe when it's <i>occupied</i>, and Station is right next to the base, where it can get some immediate attention.
  
  And lerking that soon in the game? Never seen it, doubt I will anytime soon. And 20-40 seconds to clear a occupied hive, when exactly do you expect reinforcements to show up? Especially at a locked-down hive? And skulks teaming up to take out expansions, now theres something you don't see everyday in public.
  
  Suicide runs on turrets so early in the game where you don't have any upgrades at all? And this is all assuming nobody takes your hint of attacks and goes step up defenses. And if you find a way to damage the defense but not destroy it, you are practically telling the marines to add more defense, which they will if they are smart enough. With only 2 turrets at each factory to begin with, you will save much more resources to spend on extra turrets <i>where and when they are needed</i>.
  
  
  Of course all that stuff you guys said sounds good. It <i>sounds</i> good. But in public it rarely exists. And even when it does exist, it is easily countered with extra defense. If it were that easy to everyone to take down a simple T factory with two turrets, then public games would be much more challenging more often.

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• Mr_Bean Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members

  November 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course all that stuff you guys said sounds good. It sounds good. But in public it rarely exists. And even when it does exist, it is easily countered with extra defense. If it were that easy to everyone to take down a simple T factory with two turrets, then public games would be much more challenging. more often.
  <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  It is GOOD because it IS true, I eat turrets far more than I eat humans and furthermore Every TF dead, Every Turret Dead helps my team, They wasted resources getting that TF and those Turrets could have gone to somthing else, Now he must rebuild or bug out, And if he did not learn his lesson I'll make him face that choice agian and agian

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• Sparrow Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10062Members

  November 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--Mr Bean+Nov 27 2002, 09:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr Bean @ Nov 27 2002, 09:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course all that stuff you guys said sounds good. It sounds good. But in public it rarely exists. And even when it does exist, it is easily countered with extra defense. If it were that easy to everyone to take down a simple T factory with two turrets, then public games would be much more challenging. more often.
  <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  It is GOOD because it IS true, I eat turrets far more than I eat humans and furthermore Every TF dead, Every Turret Dead helps my team, They wasted resources getting that TF and those Turrets could have gone to somthing else, Now he must rebuild or bug out, And if he did not learn his lesson I'll make him face that choice agian and agian<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  Yea it must be true because you said so. Forget trying to refute or respond to anything I said, let's just say it's true cause it is and leave it at that. Interesting.

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• Mr_Bean Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members

  November 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yea it must be true because you said so. Forget trying to refute or respond to anything I said, let's just say it's true cause it is and leave it at that. Interesting. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  Such is my Brillance <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  
  
  Seriously though your points where three
  The first where many what if's as if every single Skulk thinks such as I(Doom and Gloom and terrible things, Everyone is soloing so we are all doomed!)
  The second was as such, That Rambo always looses, No matter the Rambo, No matter the cause he always loses
  Third was this that my tatics accomplise nothing and to that I did reply
  
  For every marine lost, for every building destroyed I have cost the Commander time and resources....
  
  And that dear readers is the Entire Point... Rambo DOES work as long as its RAMBO and not Rambo's(Note the fine line between the two, one is singular the other pural but it makes all the diffrence in the world)
  
  To stop my actions or to be exact, To Stop Rambo's actions the Commander must either Fortify or retreet, In both actions I have cost him time and Resources... More improtantly I have his attention and nothing else is more vauable to aliens than a distrated Commander and THAT is the entire point
  
  But can you grasp it?
  
  Prehaps I should go on, Is a distracted Commander with his Troops? Is a Distracted Commander thinking ahead? While a Skulk munchs on the turret factory or better yet the Command Chair... how much is he thinking of the here and now and how much is he thinking about that Turret Factory he ment to upgrade and star seiging the aliens giving them time to eat it while he Worries about the fact his Chair is literly being eaten out from underneath him... and how much shall he waste placing turrets there while he could have started resurching heavy armor or prehaps built that jumpgate to the hive my fellows are assulting... Some maps this tatic is more devstating that most, nothing else occures when thier is a fade attacking from the vents on caged or bast... Who cares of the Hive while your spawn portals are being munched on?
  
  Motive, Oppertunity and Means, you must have a reason for attacking, the chance to attack and the means to achive your goal...
  
  Rambo readers... DOES exist and does do the things Rambo does... Sometimes it means the diffrence between Victory and Defeat...

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• Rolling_Rock Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8677Members

  November 2002

  This is....mostly wrong. Where to begin....
  
  * Turret Placement
  
  The ideal turret factory placement is to cram the factory into a corner, so tightly that roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of the factory is actually showing. Then you can cover it with 2 turrets like so:
  _____
  |O o
  | o
  
  This works very well in Maintenance hive and many other resource sites on other maps, nancy especially.
  
  This is bare minimum, and if done right, even if a turret is destroyed the other can cover the whole factory. But mind you, this is only meant to be a temporary defense, something to keep a passing skulk or two from chomping down your resource towers. The idea here is to *quickly* place defense. Afterall, the resources are valuable and time is everything. The longer the 'rines are waiting around for a turret is the longer the Kharaa have a chance to work on that 2nd hive and cause mischief elsewhere.
  
  As the skulks pointed out, only well turreted areas will hold them at bay. That's the kind of patterns you need at hive locations. Resource site defenses are more deterrants, as you want to throw them down and move on, with minimal defenses so you aren't rebuilding them every 3 minutes. But don't count on them lasting into the mid-game. It's jsut something to keep the skulks busy. If they're doing suicide runs on turret factories they aren't protecting a hive.
  
  * Goals
  
  Quite simply, the marine goal is to take two hives, as soon as possible. Depending on who else is on the team, I'll usually charge out the door the moment I spawn on the map. The ignorant think I'm running off to rambo the whole alien team. I'm not, I'm trying to secure a hive within minutes of the map starting. I get there, sometimes I have a buddy, and we wait for the commander to give us stuff to build or for reinforcements - or both. If I encounter the 'rush' on the way, I'll know that the hive I had targetted (usually eclipse or maintenance) was their main. Either way we gain something useful.
  
  Dont' bother securing horseshoe or triad or other resource sites. Logic is simple - if you're going to invest in turrets to defend a resource site, why not invest a little more (a turret or two extra) and secure a hive as well? It's a nice two-for-one deal. If you feel like resource spamming you can try to throw up nodes at south loop or horsehoe or triad and not defend them, but you run a tight budget, and if you invest too much in unnecessary turrets the Kharaa will get the upper hand.
  
  So first secure eclipse or maintenance (comp core is far away and some players get turned around easily in thsoe corridors). Throw up the node first, then 3-4 turrets (depending on how you place the factory), and get a phase gate up and operational.
  
  The moment the phase gate is finished, immediately press one of the other two hives (whichever they didn't start with). Usually you'll find a gorge there, sometimes two, and maybe a light defense force of a skulk or two. If you act quickly you'll hit them before they can get many defenses up. If one side is walled in, use the other to enter.
  
  If they are vigilently defending, the safer route is to get a little ways away and drop a phase gate. Let the marine reinforcements just flood into the area. Set up shop outside the hive itself and get a couple siege cannons up. At the least it will clear out their defenses, and if worse comes to worse, it will siege the hive itself if they try to build it.
  
  While you do this, work on snagging other resource nodes, and resources permitting, put up minimal defense (2 turrets where applicable, 3 standard). If you can **obscenity** up two, even if you don't defend them, you should be set on resources.
  
  As the original post said, aliens have the advantage, mid-late game, on this map. The marines have the early game advantage, provided they stay together and know how to aim. If you can secure two hives, you have it in the bag. Link them with phase gates and turret the hell out of them. The Kharaa WILL throw everything they have at one or the other. They'll do skulk suicide missions just trying to wear down the TF.
  
  But that's all good. Even if ALL you ahve is the two hives and phase gates to each, you are set. The 3 resource nodes you have from that is enough to secure victory, even if the kharaa have all the others.
  
  Be sure to have siege cannons at every major outpost. Every outpost would be better. If you have both hives, research jetpacks first. If the 2nd hive is questionable, go heavy armor.
  
  ----
  
  The key to Eclipse is speed. Marines have to be fast, they have to move TOGETHER, and they need to swarm a location when you hit it. Build quickly and MOVE ON. Do not mess around at spawn, do not mess around at the first hive. It's OK to leave it defended nly with turrets, provided you have a phase gate there so it's easy to check up on it and do repairs when needed.
  
  Hive 1 is priority 1.
  Hive 2 is priority 2.
  
  Other resource sites picked up along the way are nice accessories.
  
  If Kharaa get 2 hives on this map, the probability of victory is small. The exceptions are when one hive is secure, along with several 2+ other resource sites, and they are *well* secured. Then you have the means to crank out heavy weapons and armor and take a hive the hard way.
  
  But I really don't like playing with the assumption that they WILL have two hives. I'd rather see to it they don't and not have to go with the uncertainty of the big guns.

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• Sparrow Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10062Members

  November 2002 edited November 2002

  Yea exactly, speed is of the essence on eclipse.
  
  And if you spam all your resources trying to perfectly defend one resource point, you are wasting valuable resources that can be used to secure a hive or another resource point.
  
  I'm not saying that you should always leave JUST 2 turrets there... but when you are rushing to build and secure as many nodes as possible, you wont get very far if you waste them all on one node.
  
  Whats better?
  One node defended by 4-6 turrets to start.
  or Three nodes defended by 2 turrets, building as you reach them. You can always go back and build more turrets, but you cant build more nodes and secure them if you spent all your resources on just one node.
  
  
  Try it Bean, try only spending a tower, factory and 2 turrets quickly securing three locations, and see how much faster resources roll in as opposed to just one heavily defended one. The Kharaa are fast, but they aren't fast enough to take out 3 different nodes close together with marines patrolling the area.
  
  
  
  And how should the commander be distracted? Did I not just lay out a linear floorplan on what to do in my very first post?
  
  And why are you saying what my points are? I am asking you questions, and you aren't answering them. I am asking you questions because I'm wondering what your point is.
  
  Yeah, you can take turrets out with lerk ok, but whats your point? I'm talking about a placement that starts within 5 minutes of the game start, and you are talking about lerk tactics? What does that have to do with anything at this point of the game.
  
  If you are talking about rambo vs a organized group of marines... at the beginning of game.. with noo upgrades.. do you expect the aliens to be that good and the marines to be that stupid? I would think 4-5 marines watching eachothers six with a commander watching them above can handle one skulk.
  
  And so you attack one of the resources.. yeah and? Whats your point? The main objective was to secure eclipse, and if it's secure, then hows is that going to screw the commander over? Did I not mention the diversionary marines battling at horseshoe? Is it really that impossible to assume that MAYBE they can help the commander with errands while the main task is carried out undisturbed?
  
  
  Your post doesn't make sense Bean..
  
  
  
  And in response to Rolling, The reason I don't cram it in the corner, is because the direction the factory is facing when placed down is random for me. It could be a snug fit, but then it could also leave a big hole. I don't know, and I don't wanna replace it, so I just play it safe and just stick it next to something.
  
  The pictures weren't meant to describe how you defend a hive, that's much different. I just slapped together quick resource spots and thats it. I was really tired at the time, and didn't feel like putting up hive defense or base relocation pics and etc.. Man I'm pretty tired right nowactually...

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• Inexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members

  November 2002

  Bean's right Sparrow. If someone like he or I were to jump on your server, we could probably take down one of those 2 turret outposts in under a minute. The turrets would be down in about 15 seconds, another 10 or so for the TF and 15 for the Resourcer. It's true <i>most</i> pub players can't do that, but I find there's alway one guy on the server who can. (usually me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->)

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• Sparrow Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10062Members

  November 2002 edited November 2002

  Think about the locations for a second.
  
  Triad
  Station Access
  Eclipse
  
  3 points all right next to eachother, and very close to the marine starting point.
  
  Why don't I see any "What if marine backups shows up?" Thats understandable that you can destroy it in under a minute, but 2-3 marines can show up and kill you in under a minute <i>and</i> build more needed turrets. My guideline runs the marines straight to Eclipse and looped back to triad and station. I don't see how you will have a full alone minute to get away with destroying a node.
  
  
  Here's another scenario. Say you need to get defense up at a open remote resource node, and you only got enough cash for the resource tower, T Factory, and 2 turrets. Where would you place them? Would you put em both in the front or behind or whereever, or have one in each corner like I show in the pictures? This is what happens alot. You finish factory and turrets, you and your team gets jumped from behind and dies. If you don't have the whole factory protected, it will be destroyed before you can even get back to it. However if you defend all sides of it with 2 placed turrets, you can get some much needed extra time to get there if not thwart the attack entirely.
  
  Maybe it's just me, but if I have the possibility of dying before everythings done building, i'd rather spawn 2 turrets that cover the whole factory than spawn 4 turrets that surround it, only to get jumped after finishing the front 2 and listening to them chomp at the rear.

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• Inexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members

  November 2002

  You might not see it, but don't make the mistake of assuming the other team is less organized than your own. If you send one guy to get me at Station Access, hope he's better than I am because if I kill him your resourcer is gone. If you send half your group, then you've got few people protecting the hive and a few Skulks can overrun it.
  
  My suggestion for defense of a lone node? Post a couple of marines there for about 2 minutes. By this time the node has started bringing in profit. 2 marines can hold off Skulks much cheaper than turrets can, and about as effectively. (Don't forget the Shotguns) After that, move at least one of them out to help with the main group. The other can stay behind if the position is particularly strategically important, but otherwise know that the resourcer is nothing but profit at this point.
  
  Save the money you didn't spend turreting up resource points and build a double-TF turret field in your main hive takeover. Get 8-10 turrets, a Phase Gate and be secure in the knowledge that this hive will be yours barring fire, flood or act of God. There are certain maps where this doesn't work as well (such as Caged, where there are no resource points within line-of-sight of a hive), but will serve you well on Eclipse.

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• Mr_Bean Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members

  November 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Get 8-10 turrets, a Phase Gate and be secure in the knowledge that this hive will be yours barring fire, flood or act of God. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  
  For I have met HIM and HIS name is FADE
  
  Of course by now you should have HA and HMG and its not so good
  
  
  The point is, Sparrow is very simple, I being me and no one else is destroying everything you built up, If you built a TF and 3 Turrets to protect a resource and I eat them all then you have just WASTED 107 Resources and a mintue or two to build all those things IN RETURN for prehaps ten resources... Its called Econmics, The Econ War, If your spending hundreds of resources to little gain you WILL loose, Barring even halfway compentent Gourges we will have won the Ecnomic War
  
  
  Think of it this way, Three Marines VS 1 Skulk often ends with the skulk winning, if its a good skulk it ends with the skulk winning with no damage,
  Now if its 3 Skulks VS 1 Marine... Anyone gonna bet on the Marine?
  
  Now then, Skulks are FREE, Marines are ALMOST FREE, Buildings are costly, for every skulk who eats a building is very efficent
  
  Now back to our Rambo Skulk, HE By himself apart from his team can eat any one of your bases thusly detailed, How about a PAIR of Decent Skulks?
  
  The problem is your ENTIRE STRATAGY relies on the incompetence of your oppent, Lightly defended outposts will fall and fall quickly, think if one skulk can stop you temporarly what about two or three? Remeber this is not Seven on 1, This is Seven on Seven, That one skulk can undo and quickly the work of Six and that is the problem with you stratagy

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• Tomten Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8138Members

  November 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Think of it this way, Three Marines VS 1 Skulk often ends with the skulk winning, if its a good skulk it ends with the skulk winning with no damage,
  Now if its 3 Skulks VS 1 Marine... Anyone gonna bet on the Marine?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  
  Erh....
  
  Are you insane? If the marine players are complete noobs, a good skulk player might kill them, but if they are half-decent players, there's no way a single skulk can kill three marines, then the game would be unbalanced.
  
  The only time i've seen a lone skulk kill three or more marines is if they are caught unaware, if they all build a turretfactory, or they are running around without checking for skulkers hiding in dark corners <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

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• Inexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members

  November 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--Tomten+Nov 27 2002, 12:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tomten @ Nov 27 2002, 12:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only time i've seen a lone skulk kill three or more marines is if they are caught unaware, if they all build a turretfactory, or they are running around without checking for skulkers hiding in dark corners <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  Pretty common behavior on pub servers actually. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

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• Sparrow Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10062Members

  November 2002

  Your opinion relies on the marines being horrible marksmen and well, idiots entirely.
  
  I could say 3 skulks can take out an entire marine base, but that wouldn't be accurate enough to apply to this game in general would it?
  
  I could also say 2 marines is enough to kill a pack of skulks. I've seen it done plenty of times too. But I don't go around applying it to general strategy, because that would be fairly innaccurate.
  
  There's not much more to say about your opinion, Bean.

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• JRock Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10032Members

  November 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--BoddoZerg+Nov 27 2002, 08:40 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BoddoZerg @ Nov 27 2002, 08:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It takes 6 turrets to make an unguarded tfac secure from Skulks, and ~8 turrets to secure it against Fades. If you have 4 or 5 turrets, I will make 2 suicide runs, killing 2 turrets and creating a blindspot, and on my 3rd run your tfac is dead. (3 suicide skulk runs can occur much faster than you'd think...) 6 well placed turrets will require the skulk to kill 3 turrets, which is impractical considering how fast he dies.
  
  A tfac with 2 turrets is bait for a single Skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  Too bad you only get suicide ability as a Skulk when you have 3 hives - and at that point you have already won anyway.

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• Mr_Bean Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members

  November 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Too bad you only get suicide ability as a Skulk when you have 3 hives - and at that point you have already won anyway. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  
  He's Refering to Go Skulk-Caprence, Bite Bite Bite till you die, Respawn Repeat NOT Xenocide which takes only three runs to kill turrets dead if I remeber correctly

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• matso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer

  November 2002

  suicide != xenocide. JFYI.

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• Mr_Bean Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members

  November 2002

  Then what would you call going Caprenced Skulk running in, biting a turret till you die, respawning and repeating?

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• Sparrow Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10062Members

  November 2002 edited November 2002

  Being cheap. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  
  Poor, poor <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> . Can't be nowhere without gettin attacked these days. What's the world coming to?

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• DrSuredeath Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8217Members

  November 2002 edited November 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--Sparrow+Nov 28 2002, 07:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sparrow @ Nov 28 2002, 07:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your opinion relies on the marines being horrible marksmen and well, idiots entirely.
  <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  Actually a good commander should assume his men are horrible marksmen.
  
  Some flaws.
  Turrets factory should be built along the wall. So one turret CAN cover it. (You still need more than 3 to stop the kamikaze skulks though). In the main base, you should hide the factory, not placing it in the middle of the room.
  
  2. Triad is hard to defend as hell.
  
  I prefer to start expanding from southloop.
  Secure the southloop
  Build factory along the southwestern wall of the room.
  Get the phase gate up(This way you basically cut Khara's shortcut to Maintenance hive)
  Send a couple of men to Maint hive to set up nozzle and some turrets
  Go back to Southloop, upgrade the factory
  start farming the turrets to make way to CC hive (the range is enough if you place the factory correctly in Southloop)
  Put up the seige.
  
  Wallah, 2 hives under our control. All this with 3 nozzles, 3 turrets factories, no upgrade except Motion tracking.

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• Discobird Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7489Members

  December 2002 edited December 2002

  <!--QuoteBegin--Dr.Suredeath+Nov 30 2002, 09:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dr.Suredeath @ Nov 30 2002, 09:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Sparrow+Nov 28 2002, 07:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sparrow @ Nov 28 2002, 07:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your opinion relies on the marines being horrible marksmen and well, idiots entirely.
  <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  
  Some flaws.
  Turrets factory should be built along the wall. So one turret CAN cover it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
  About 90% of the time, in my experience, TFS against the wall have a little crack somewhere big enough for a crouched Skulk to chomp away in safety.

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• ogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Members

  December 2002

  if you plan to fortify nodes before moving on instead of using ur marines, then you wont need as much marines defending
  
  so they should be out there trying to kill the aliens gorg+resource points
  
  you could take 20 minutes to reach your first hive and it wouldn't matter if they can't build their 2nd hive cos you are killing their gorgs+res nodes constantly <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

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• Sparrow Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10062Members

  December 2002

  Umm a good gorg can build the hive in less than 10 minutes. Taking 20 minutes to secure a hive either way is taking way too long, and a hive should be <i>the first</i> thing you reach.
  
  And no amount of turrets can fade-proof a node. So your plentiful turrets will become rp wasted targets for the volleys of acid rockets that is guaranteed to come in less than 20 minutes.

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