Praise To (All) Unknown Worlds Staff
Vman
Join Date: 2007-09-11 Member: 62251Members
Join Date: 2007-09-11 Member: 62251Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Revamp of the earlyer praise...</div>You guys made such a great game in terms of speaking of Natural Selection. Even with all the games out there that i can play with better graphics I come back. Why? Because at times game-play in Natural selection is way better.
I wouldn't say that it is a bad game, not at all. The community, the people, its all great. I just want to say that graphics dose not matter (Much). While art is fancy and something great to look at. Game-play is what should be focused on. 75% game-play 15% Ambiance(sound) 10% Graphics.
I would like to thank you for listening to our Suggestions, our wants for the future of NS2 while staying true to what you wanted at the same time. Being Friday(when i wrote this) I would like to say that i Love natural selection, its something that i enjoy playing even if i do suck at the game (atleast i think so <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ).
Natural Selection for me, is a immersing community, With great <b>responsive staff</b> please dont lose that part when you become a bigger company which i see can and will happine. I am glad, glad that i bought half-life 1 to play NS no matter how late i have come im still glad. In reality speaking i would love to donate (if i could) although 5-10$ couldent be that much to you now lol (referring to Podcast #21?).
I know my grammar, nor my spelling are perfect. But hey, you wake up at 1:45 a.m and decide to write some thanks to some company you will never know personally.
But please, don't lose the responsiveness, the communication with your community. Work hard to be with those both and i don't ever see this game falling apart.
<i>Post your comments below <u>(please keep it positive)</u></i>
I wouldn't say that it is a bad game, not at all. The community, the people, its all great. I just want to say that graphics dose not matter (Much). While art is fancy and something great to look at. Game-play is what should be focused on. 75% game-play 15% Ambiance(sound) 10% Graphics.
I would like to thank you for listening to our Suggestions, our wants for the future of NS2 while staying true to what you wanted at the same time. Being Friday(when i wrote this) I would like to say that i Love natural selection, its something that i enjoy playing even if i do suck at the game (atleast i think so <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ).
Natural Selection for me, is a immersing community, With great <b>responsive staff</b> please dont lose that part when you become a bigger company which i see can and will happine. I am glad, glad that i bought half-life 1 to play NS no matter how late i have come im still glad. In reality speaking i would love to donate (if i could) although 5-10$ couldent be that much to you now lol (referring to Podcast #21?).
I know my grammar, nor my spelling are perfect. But hey, you wake up at 1:45 a.m and decide to write some thanks to some company you will never know personally.
But please, don't lose the responsiveness, the communication with your community. Work hard to be with those both and i don't ever see this game falling apart.
<i>Post your comments below <u>(please keep it positive)</u></i>
Comments
Hell yeah!
About the game-play... we sure miss it nowadays, because graphics kinda sell the game, but game-play keeps you playing it
NS1 gameplay can't survive the move to Source, should NS2 be 'too different'. CS1 still gets played more than CS:S, but NS can't do the same. Whatever Source gives will be the future of NS. If its not as good as NS1 currently is (which personally boggles my mind, to think of something actually better), means that we are truly in the last days.
...Or, they somehow make NS even better, and we all become mind-boggled when it is finally released. The devs won't give anything remotely like a release date, but I would venture to say that it would likely be at least 2009.
sorry to derail the thread but, where'd you get this?
Hmm, apparently they changed the steam stats page, and now I can't find the stats for any of the CS games. But basically, every time ive looked at the stats, CS1 has had about 2-5 times the population of CS:S. You could make your own guesses at why.
<!--quoteo(post=1674010:date=Mar 23 2008, 10:47 AM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Mar 23 2008, 10:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674010"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->TF2 was terrible except for the players who don't want to invest more than 15 minutes mastering a game, and CS has always been bad especially in public servers. How do you rationalize calling them perfect?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Team Fortress is one of the best series of games ever made. It first came out on QUAKE, the FIRST ONE, waaaaay back in the day. And on its first release, it had all the same classes you see now with great balance and roles. I played it for thousands of hours way back then, as I'm sure many people here have, and when I did some searching, i couldn't believe the number of ports for the game. There's something like over 12 ports, right from the original Quake all the way to TF2.
With TF2, they decided to remove grenades. It was actually a wise decision, since its far less of a spam fest, and the roles are far more emphasized now than in any other version. They improved an age-old formula, a formula that they got right from the <i>very beginning</i>.
Now, I don't enjoy TF that much anymore. I bought the Orange Box and I play it now and then, but I've basically grown out of TF and CS because of NS. I'm sure you have as well, which is why you feel so strongly against me calling TF2 a 'perfect update'.
You misquoted me, too. I called them 'perfect updates', NOT 'perfect'. It gave fans of the series exactly what they wanted. The stats absolutely prove that! Its a massively popular game, that even a lot of NS players are saying is the cause for them finally leaving NS1.
CS:S was also a perfect update imo. It held the exact same gameplay formula, adding a few small features, but giving the fans of the game exactly what they wanted in a sequel. Sure you can rant about the reg or whatever, but it actually brought me and a bunch of my friends back into CS hardcore for about two months (before the expected return to NS).
The original context of me saying all this, was about the idea of a 'perfect update' to NS. I find that the path the devs are on is not an update, it is a sequel. Imagine if TF2 had removed certain classes, added in vehicles, unlockable weapons and a commander? That sounds like a sequel, yet it also sounds like just another battlefield clone. While it would 'push the IP forward with new features', it would lose all of what made it so great in the beginning.
I am simply terrified of this happening with NS2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />. After 5 years of profitless testing we have gotten an amazing version of an extremely complicated game. Why not use the tried-and-true base and give it a 'perfect update' for retail? Have it ACTUALLY be on frontpages of Steam sites and even EBGames, instead just receiving massive praise on hardcore gamer sites? Moddb named NS Best Mod of the Year, didnt it? Havn't the Penny Arcade guys ranted about it multiple times? All these magazines have given it stellar reports?
Thats a business plan that any investor would go bright-eyed at. But from what I've seen as a podcast-listener and forum frequenter, it sounds like they are going for a full blown sequel to a game that never got to fully shine. If they can pull off NS2, then my god. If it becomes a dud, from overcomplexity (adding WHAT to the complexity of NS1?!?!), simplicity (TF2'ing it too much), or even some unforeseen catastrophe (the community never properly produces adequate maps, the engine really becomes obsolete by then, the investors pull out), well... we lose NS forever. Because we all know that NS1 can't survive a sequel. Its already showing the signs of slowing down (which are used nonstop by the doomsday sayers).
I would miss it SO much.
Also name me one other game that is trying its hand at a full blown RTS+FPS+RPG hybride? I see no contest for NS2, so why all this D-day talk about new engines that have no plans from mod teams even near the NS2 design...
Source + Ns gameplay and more interactivity because of the engine can only be a good thing. As the devs have said, they want an easier to learn game, while keeping most of NS's legacy alive. (easy to get into, yet hard to master VS what it is now: hard to learn and hard to master)
Whenever I'm not sure about the path of NS2 I change my perspective to think about the game as separate from NS1. Then I think about all of the cool things talked about in the blogs and podcasts: Dynamic infestation, scripting and prosumers{<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2007/02/prosumers_and_natural_selection_2" target="_blank">link</a>}, procedural textures with scripting{<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2007/06/a_good_sign" target="_blank">link</a>}, Weldbots and Glowies{<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2008/01/unknown_worlds_videocast_2_hivecast" target="_blank">link</a>}. IMHO NS2 has the potential to be epic.
Also name me one other game that is trying its hand at a full blown RTS+FPS+RPG hybride? I see no contest for NS2, so why all this D-day talk about new engines that have no plans from mod teams even near the NS2 design...
Source + Ns gameplay and more interactivity because of the engine can only be a good thing. As the devs have said, they want an easier to learn game, while keeping most of NS's legacy alive. (easy to get into, yet hard to master VS what it is now: hard to learn and hard to master)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but there's already a huge difference between NS1 and NS2. An alien commander.
Then you've got the little differences.. weldbots, glowies, canals.. that add up.
( I'm not counting graphics here, so DI and new hive designs or marine weapon/structure designs and whatnot, aren't really part of the picture. They're pretty much, simply graphical updates. )
Also, there are plenty of awesome mods for Source; many (especially on Source) doing the RTS+FPS hybrid thing. [plug]for some pure fun (with wallwalking!) download and play ballmen![/plug] (nah, seriously, it's a great mod, needs more players :[)
Then you've got the little differences.. weldbots, glowies, canals.. that add up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was phrased perfectly. All those things <u>ADD UP</u>. I mean, jeez, hand grenades broke NS for a couple months before it was patched to perfection... twice. What about these unhinged hives? Tunnels? DI affecting gameplay? Source's physics props as barricades? It almost feels as though the Alien Comm idea was introduced to the community as a 'bewarned; if we really do mess up the balance too much, we might have to do this'. Obviously this isn't fair to the devs, as they could really create an awesome Alien Comm, I'm just saying that that is how I, and apparently the entire community, felt when it was announced as a possibility.
Doomsday threat of becoming obsolete? Well, it can happen. Hopefully Valve's modular technique with Source means that it actually can continually be updated to modernity. Personally, I'm unsure about source's track record with less-than-AAA firms creating retail games. How many full-blown retail games have been released by source, which were not created by Valve? I cant think of any, but I'm sure im misinformed. Compare that to the Unreal 3 engine, which lets even horrible dev teams create horrible games which still look so awesome, at least in screenshots, to be profitable enough in the marketplace (cough BLACKSITE cough).
No other FPS/RTS hybrids? I feel that NS was the original, and the perfect version of the hybrid, but there have still been plenty of other attempts, many of which are yet to truly blossom. Empires sounds like its almost finally out of beta into a proper first version, like NS' 1.04. Intelligent Design, Zunni's NS-like mod, is close to releasing its Tech Release. The Savage series, already with two installments, was retail from the very beginning. I played it for a bit and felt it was pale in comparison to NS, but for all we know, they could perfect the third installment. Even Renegade, which was a pathetic attempt at a hybrid, could easily have a sequel drop with actually decent gameplay. NS might be the best hybrid, but its time for being the best hybrid won't necessarily last forever. And I've never even heard of this mod Ballmen.
I hope I don't actually sound like I'm spouting doomsday gospel. I simply want to open and keep the dialog going on the topic.
If the devs suddenly annouced, 'we've decided to focus all our attention on a quick and quality port of NS first (since the game itself is ready to go), which will then be followed by a sequel with all the new features we've talked about', well, I would have quite a sight of relief. That would ensure the NS we all know and love would live on for many years.
And never forget that NS2 is going to be retail. The NS1 Playtesters, God Bless their Souls, have done a great job, but we all know that a vast proportion of the real testing is done on public servers. It's taken five years to get to here. When NS2 is released, it has to be ready to go. It can be patched, but it can't have any of its main features modified or overhauled, or someone could probably literally sue UWE. So what will they do? Will they keep the current playtesters? Will they give everyone in the community a free 2-week pass to play it up for testing purposes sometime before it goes Gold? Who knows. But they absolutely can't treat the NS2 dev cycle anything like the way they treated NS1 (which is obvious for a dev but not for a casual consumer).
As far as Brent and others' concerns about NS2's features and divergence from NS1, I can see where you're coming from. So let me just say that our biggest priority is to make sure NS2 is true to the "spirit" of NS. We've spent years refining NS and it would be pretty wasteful to make NS2 if it didn't appeal to you guys - our most valuable asset.
That said, simply making a graphical port is quite boring from our perspective. HL2-level technology means a ton of artwork and pretty much a code rewrite. It's easier because we know a lot more about this genre then when starting NS1, but if we give you essentially the same game as NS, no one is happy. You might think you would be, but after you played it for an hour, you would reparse the game as NS1 and you'd put it away.
So we're going to give you something fresh. Hopefully not hand-grenade-fresh, but something that feels like what NS should've been all along. What it tried to do and never quite pulled off. Incredible teamwork. Rich strategy. Fun social dynamics. Aliens that feel like savage animals and marines moving with precision and employing wicked nano-steel contraptions.
We know what the true core of NS is (teamplay!) and that's what we're focusing on for NS2. If it doesn't feel more "NS" than NS1, we've failed. We're not going to make that mistake.
Err, sorry about that. Ballmen isn't an RTS+FPS hybrid, it's just a very small, recently-released (beta 1) Source mod (that you should try!).
Back on <i>topic</i>,
Having (re-)read (some of) the posts in this thread, I'm beginning to get a little confused. <i>What exactly are we talking about here?</i>
<!--quoteo(post=1674226:date=Mar 25 2008, 02:10 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 25 2008, 02:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674226"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So we're going to give you something fresh. Hopefully not hand-grenade-fresh, but something that feels like what NS should've been all along.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flayra's tl;dr: Do you have problems with NS1 hand-grenades and if so, what are they?
When you say "not hand-grenade-fresh" are you referring to TF2 removal-of-grenades or NS1 grenades which were added in 2.0(IIRC)?
And if it is NS1 hand-grenades, are you referring to art-style or their changes to NS1 gameplay? I ask because, IMO, hand grenades are a <i>great</i> gameplay addition. They're important to have around early-to-mid game for indirect shot into vents/hies/around corners and pg clearing. They are appropriately balanced in terms of drawback vs benefit in battle and are good for getting skulks off a teammate. I even see interesting yomi(sp?) characteristics with grenade priming-baiting.