<!--quoteo(post=1670420:date=Feb 13 2008, 10:23 PM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Feb 13 2008, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Apple generally seems to be more innovative than MS does. Microsoft seems to like to copy Apple. OSX -> Vista, iPod -> Zune<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you call many... 4 or 5... In which for example the sidebar in folders they had before just not as graphically portrayed (sp?) in XP. The side/dashbar's were plugins for a lot of people anyway so they bundled it in. Search feature on start? Don't think anyone could argue that one.
The calendar... I think you will find that design has been in Microsoft Outlook for a LONG time.
FamDiaper-Wearing Dog On A BallJoin Date: 2002-02-17Member: 222Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--quoteo(post=1670336:date=Feb 13 2008, 04:32 AM:name=MedHead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MedHead @ Feb 13 2008, 04:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670336"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please tell me that post was filled with sarcasm, Fam. Please. You just likened a choice to use a nerfed operating system to changing the world.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would I disappoint by making a boring old Mac rant without at least attempting to add something extra in-between the lines for you? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1670420:date=Feb 13 2008, 02:23 PM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Feb 13 2008, 02:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Apple generally seems to be more innovative than MS does. Microsoft seems to like to copy Apple. OSX -> Vista, iPod -> Zune<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because Apple invented mp3 players.
An operating system that "just works" and can accomplish everything a user needs it to with a slick interface is a good operating system. Making it easier to use and more accessible for the same tasks doesn't make the system "nerfed" or worse in any way; it makes the interface <i>better.</i>
I fully agree that the arrogant marketing is incredibly annoying; it's part of the reason I don't already own a Mac. But Linux nerds can be different. If they're like me, they're proud of their operating system because they understand it, they have control of it, and they love its design philosophies. Of course there are going to be a lot of people who turn that into snobbery, but give a Linux evangelical the benefit of the doubt: wait for him to actually insult a user (and not just the operating system!) before setting blasters to kill.
Apple doesn't innovate, it merely refines. Apple hasn't brought about a product that is unique in quite some time, but rather merely offers features available separately in a variety of devices and distills it down to one device. It's more evolutionary than revolutionary. However, as soon as Apple proclaims its genius, everyone seems to forget those that came before.
<!--quoteo(post=1670441:date=Feb 14 2008, 12:21 AM:name=MedHead)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MedHead @ Feb 14 2008, 12:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670441"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Apple doesn't innovate, it merely refines. Apple hasn't brought about a product that is unique in quite some time, but rather merely offers features available separately in a variety of devices and distills it down to one device. It's more evolutionary than revolutionary. However, as soon as Apple proclaims its genius, everyone seems to forget those that came before.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair enough. Then I'll rephrase it to Apple refines and MS copies.
Microsoft takes an existing product and puts their brand on it. They admit it's incomplete, and that updates are coming. It's only after they've released several revisions to the product that they finally put some original content into it, making it a relevant purchase.
Microsoft seems okay with making its customer base often a broad group of beta testers, but it frustrates me at times. If the company could get its development team communicating better between the divisions to make things run smoother, I think Microsoft would be able to ship better first-run products.
Apple takes an existing product and designs a new cover for it, complete with their logo. They ship the product, after removing product features offered by the competition (they claim the missing options would detract from the wonderful simplicity of the device). After the market has been saturated with the first generation model, Apple then releases a new model at full price that offers all the missing features.
Apple may end up getting more money by pumping its customer base, but it also alienates customers by with the constant "We're not releasing that ever, buy this product instead - fooled you, yes we are, pay full price" method they've been at for years now. That, and the cult thing they've got going on.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1670426:date=Feb 13 2008, 05:27 PM:name=Caboose)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Caboose @ Feb 13 2008, 05:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670426"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Vista is not a copy of OSX, it merely imitates many of the features that OSX has and has had.
<a href="http://lifehacker.com/software/top/windows-vista-beta-a-lot-like-mac-os-x-179909.php" target="_blank">See?</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow, the author of that article seems to believe Apple created docks and stupid clocks/etc for the desktop.
And what the hell, how ELSE are you going to do a f*ckin' calender?
<!--quoteo(post=1670387:date=Feb 13 2008, 08:51 AM:name=Gwahir)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gwahir @ Feb 13 2008, 08:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670387"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->from a mac user:
<a href="http://www.vexxarr.com/Rants.php" target="_blank">http://www.vexxarr.com/Rants.php</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> From the end of the mac rant: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* EDIT This behavior was later diagnosed as the onset of a physical drive failure...said diagnosis being that the drive did in fact, fail EDIT*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll admit that it's an entertaining read, but it seems irrelevant to the current discussion. Anyone that claims that the hardware in a computer won't fail is an idiot. (For all I know, that could describe the typical mac user, or at least the ones targeted by the commercials; all of my friends that have one would have no problem opening up Terminal and entering commands in there.)
Wait, a toy is "something that performs or behaves differently with each subsequent use?" Does that mean lego bricks are not toys? What about transformers? What about a rattle?
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Choosing an OS as a fashion statement is like buying a hammer for its colour.
I personally hate the UI experience on OSX. I work with several ex apple developers who worked on OSX from the kernel and compiler right up to UI components and quicktime, and 2 of 14 of them have macs at home. It's just crazy to spend that extra money for a mac. There's not a single productive task that your choice of OS will make a difference. Be it XP, Vista, Ubuntu or OSX, 99% of the important things you do are about achieving results and the mechanisms of doing so are not really important. If I want to develop code, I really don't care where I do it as long as I have a good editor and debugger. Who cares how well windows are decorated or how consistent the UI controls are. I got way past the point of caring about such things 10 years ago. Which is why as a hardcore Linux fan, I still have XP on my desktop. I just don't care enough to dual boot anymore. I sit a computer to accomplish goals, and unless that goal is tied to a specific OS, then I really couldn't care less what the user experience is like as long as it isn't putting up obstacle sin my way and at this stage, they all work well enough for me. So I stick with XP because that's where it is easiest to play NS.
So, I'm not sure how this became an OS war. The article I originally liked to said that Mac users were assured of their own superiority, not their operating system's.
Hence the name of the thread: "Hi, I am a Mac user. And I am better than you." not "Hi, I am a Mac user. And my OS is better than yours."
<!--quoteo(post=1670562:date=Feb 15 2008, 01:55 AM:name=Caboose)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Caboose @ Feb 15 2008, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, I'm not sure how this became an OS war. The article I originally liked to said that Mac users were assured of their own superiority, not their operating system's.
Hence the name of the thread: "Hi, I am a Mac user. And I am better than you." not "Hi, I am a Mac user. And my OS is better than yours."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The OS is part of a MAC. It's the main thing which makes a MAC a MAC. Thus we can bash it for being stupid.
Comments
OSX -> Vista, iPod -> Zune<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
iPod Zune I agree with.
I don't see how Vista is a copy of OSX however.
<a href="http://lifehacker.com/software/top/windows-vista-beta-a-lot-like-mac-os-x-179909.php" target="_blank">See?</a>
The calendar... I think you will find that design has been in Microsoft Outlook for a LONG time.
Would I disappoint by making a boring old Mac rant without at least attempting to add something extra in-between the lines for you? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
OSX -> Vista, iPod -> Zune<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because Apple invented mp3 players.
I fully agree that the arrogant marketing is incredibly annoying; it's part of the reason I don't already own a Mac. But Linux nerds can be different. If they're like me, they're proud of their operating system because they understand it, they have control of it, and they love its design philosophies. Of course there are going to be a lot of people who turn that into snobbery, but give a Linux evangelical the benefit of the doubt: wait for him to actually insult a user (and not just the operating system!) before setting blasters to kill.
Fair enough. Then I'll rephrase it to Apple refines and MS copies.
Microsoft takes an existing product and puts their brand on it. They admit it's incomplete, and that updates are coming. It's only after they've released several revisions to the product that they finally put some original content into it, making it a relevant purchase.
Microsoft seems okay with making its customer base often a broad group of beta testers, but it frustrates me at times. If the company could get its development team communicating better between the divisions to make things run smoother, I think Microsoft would be able to ship better first-run products.
Apple takes an existing product and designs a new cover for it, complete with their logo. They ship the product, after removing product features offered by the competition (they claim the missing options would detract from the wonderful simplicity of the device). After the market has been saturated with the first generation model, Apple then releases a new model at full price that offers all the missing features.
Apple may end up getting more money by pumping its customer base, but it also alienates customers by with the constant "We're not releasing that ever, buy this product instead - fooled you, yes we are, pay full price" method they've been at for years now. That, and the cult thing they've got going on.
<a href="http://lifehacker.com/software/top/windows-vista-beta-a-lot-like-mac-os-x-179909.php" target="_blank">See?</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, the author of that article seems to believe Apple created docks and stupid clocks/etc for the desktop.
And what the hell, how ELSE are you going to do a f*ckin' calender?
<a href="http://www.vexxarr.com/Rants.php" target="_blank">http://www.vexxarr.com/Rants.php</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From the end of the mac rant:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->* EDIT This behavior was later diagnosed as the onset of a physical drive failure...said diagnosis being that the drive did in fact, fail EDIT*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll admit that it's an entertaining read, but it seems irrelevant to the current discussion. Anyone that claims that the hardware in a computer won't fail is an idiot. (For all I know, that could describe the typical mac user, or at least the ones targeted by the commercials; all of my friends that have one would have no problem opening up Terminal and entering commands in there.)
I personally hate the UI experience on OSX. I work with several ex apple developers who worked on OSX from the kernel and compiler right up to UI components and quicktime, and 2 of 14 of them have macs at home. It's just crazy to spend that extra money for a mac. There's not a single productive task that your choice of OS will make a difference. Be it XP, Vista, Ubuntu or OSX, 99% of the important things you do are about achieving results and the mechanisms of doing so are not really important. If I want to develop code, I really don't care where I do it as long as I have a good editor and debugger. Who cares how well windows are decorated or how consistent the UI controls are. I got way past the point of caring about such things 10 years ago. Which is why as a hardcore Linux fan, I still have XP on my desktop. I just don't care enough to dual boot anymore. I sit a computer to accomplish goals, and unless that goal is tied to a specific OS, then I really couldn't care less what the user experience is like as long as it isn't putting up obstacle sin my way and at this stage, they all work well enough for me. So I stick with XP because that's where it is easiest to play NS.
Hence the name of the thread: "Hi, I am a Mac user. And I am better than you." not "Hi, I am a Mac user. And my OS is better than yours."
Hence the name of the thread: "Hi, I am a Mac user. And I am better than you." not "Hi, I am a Mac user. And my OS is better than yours."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The OS is part of a MAC. It's the main thing which makes a MAC a MAC. Thus we can bash it for being stupid.