Wow, some of what Max mentioned sounds really cool.
View rotation sounds cool, but in my mind it only really makes sense if the player can control which way up they are... e.g. when walking in a corner decide which side to walk on. Of course, I don't know how well it would work it practice.
Other things, like different fade movement & lerk flying changes could be cool too... I hope to see a lot more here since you can adapt the engine to your own needs! Personally I'd love to see more accurate flight model, e.g. joystick control and rolling, but I'm aware it may not fit well with the intention of the gameplay.
yeah, the problem with that is NS is a close-quarters combat game. there's not enough.. space.. for a lerk to have such an elaborate flight model.. pretty much has to be quick in, quick out.
we've got a thread in the suggestions forum about lerk flight ideas, that might work, though.
<!--QuoteBegin-Max+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Max)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In his book, Joel Spolsky writes that an option is when a programmer (or a designer) fails to make a decision. Obviously not every option fits this description -- in particular options that change "continuously" like resolution, font size, etc. are great for different users -- but options that make big changes in functionality typically are unnecessary. Giving the user the ability to tailor their own experience sounds great, but often what you're really asking them to do is compromise. This probably sounds like an insane and radical concept since it's quite opposite the current trend in software. But if one way is clearly better than another, why include the option? And if that's not the case, maybe you should be rethinking the implementation of that particular feature so that it always works great without requiring the user to tweak it.
In the case of the Skulk rotation, it was clear the rotated view made it more difficult to orient yourself, attack enemies and would probably have been nauseating for lots of people.
When confronted with an option, people don't always make the best decisions for themselves (check the leading causes of death in humans if you don't believe this one). Some people may have chosen the rotated view option because of the increased immersion and overall awesomeness, despite the clear shortcomings when it comes to game play. They may have become frustrated with the game and instead of enjoying it, would just spend the rest of their days hanging out on our forums and telling us how we ruined the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree that sometimes options are unnecessary, and can bog down the user. However, this is generally because the decision is forced upon the user, rather than having a default setting that can be modified if the user so desires. If an option is overwhelming, you can just hide it!
I personally love the idea of Skulk view rotation. However, not all people are the same. If NS2 comes with adaptive view rotation as the only option, there will be people who will not like it, and some who won't even be able to handle it (due to nausea, disorientation, or simply driving them up the wall - no pun intended.) How much effort will it take to simply allow a savvy/motivated user to disable this option? Presuming it's easy to implement, I would.
German version finally has arrived: <a href="http://www.lerk.de/2008/02/skulk-view-rotation-the-return-of-the-fabulous-testosteron/" target="_blank">skulk-view-rotation</a>
You all talk about disorenting and so on, but the solution is sooo easy:
Just like you have a sticky-button to stick to the wall in NS1, have a "Change rotation view"-Button, that changes the viewup vector according to the current attached wall. else, stay the orientation you had before.
That way, everyone has what they want, without even the need to make it an option.
No disorientation while jumping to other walls, and for the ones who like it, they just hold done they key while changing the wall.
i think kopaka wrote sth similar, it just wasn't argued about it much.
<!--quoteo(post=1665410:date=Dec 28 2007, 06:51 AM:name=kopaka649)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kopaka649 @ Dec 28 2007, 06:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665410"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looks like an interesting concept. My idea: Uncap the vertical look for skulks so you can rotate a full circle by just looking up (like dystopia). Keep the way everything else the way it is in terms of walking on walls; don't turn the view automatically so people who want more immersion can just look up, and people who want to play like before are able to. Then just make it automatically reorient everything smoothly on the real ground if you're looking up or down further than 90 degrees (like dystopia again).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i hope you understand me right.. its just like in NS1, with the addition that if you press the button, the view orientation changes.. or if you hold it down, it behaives as in AvsP(1/2?)
Comments
(sigh)
View rotation sounds cool, but in my mind it only really makes sense if the player can control which way up they are... e.g. when walking in a corner decide which side to walk on. Of course, I don't know how well it would work it practice.
Other things, like different fade movement & lerk flying changes could be cool too... I hope to see a lot more here since you can adapt the engine to your own needs! Personally I'd love to see more accurate flight model, e.g. joystick control and rolling, but I'm aware it may not fit well with the intention of the gameplay.
we've got a thread in the suggestions forum about lerk flight ideas, that might work, though.
In the case of the Skulk rotation, it was clear the rotated view made it more difficult to orient yourself, attack enemies and would probably have been nauseating for lots of people.
When confronted with an option, people don't always make the best decisions for themselves (check the leading causes of death in humans if you don't believe this one). Some people may have chosen the rotated view option because of the increased immersion and overall awesomeness, despite the clear shortcomings when it comes to game play. They may have become frustrated with the game and instead of enjoying it, would just spend the rest of their days hanging out on our forums and telling us how we ruined the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that sometimes options are unnecessary, and can bog down the user. However, this is generally because the decision is forced upon the user, rather than having a default setting that can be modified if the user so desires. If an option is overwhelming, you can just hide it!
I personally love the idea of Skulk view rotation. However, not all people are the same. If NS2 comes with adaptive view rotation as the only option, there will be people who will not like it, and some who won't even be able to handle it (due to nausea, disorientation, or simply driving them up the wall - no pun intended.) How much effort will it take to simply allow a savvy/motivated user to disable this option? Presuming it's easy to implement, I would.
Just like you have a sticky-button to stick to the wall in NS1, have a "Change rotation view"-Button, that changes the viewup vector according to the current attached wall. else, stay the orientation you had before.
That way, everyone has what they want, without even the need to make it an option.
No disorientation while jumping to other walls, and for the ones who like it, they just hold done they key while changing the wall.
i think kopaka wrote sth similar, it just wasn't argued about it much.
<!--quoteo(post=1665410:date=Dec 28 2007, 06:51 AM:name=kopaka649)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kopaka649 @ Dec 28 2007, 06:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665410"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Looks like an interesting concept.
My idea: Uncap the vertical look for skulks so you can rotate a full circle by just looking up (like dystopia). Keep the way everything else the way it is in terms of walking on walls; don't turn the view automatically so people who want more immersion can just look up, and people who want to play like before are able to. Then just make it automatically reorient everything smoothly on the real ground if you're looking up or down further than 90 degrees (like dystopia again).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i hope you understand me right.. its just like in NS1, with the addition that if you press the button, the view orientation changes.. or if you hold it down, it behaives as in AvsP(1/2?)
--Ano