Steal TF2's anti-teamblock code
BigD
[OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
[OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Doo eeet.</div>Let's face it, being team blocked <i>sucks.</i> You're racing out of an enemy strong hold just run smack dab into some teammate, lose all momentum and then die. It's right up there with insta-gibbing pg's and ip's. Skulks at onos feet? Fades into a lerks face?
TF2 does a great job with this, you can easily run past teammates, but enemies can still block you like normal.
Plus, the ready room. This is something that is a requirement for maps: the entrances have to be big enough so that some lame ass can't block them (not truly a problem with with the binds anymore, but it's an example of how useful this could be).
Enemies should still be able to block you, that's a great tactic in fact. But sneaking past the guy who won't move in that narrow vent sure would be nice.
Edit:
Slippery is a good way to describe the effect. You can't walk through each other, but it sort of pushes you to the side that little bit.
TF2 does a great job with this, you can easily run past teammates, but enemies can still block you like normal.
Plus, the ready room. This is something that is a requirement for maps: the entrances have to be big enough so that some lame ass can't block them (not truly a problem with with the binds anymore, but it's an example of how useful this could be).
Enemies should still be able to block you, that's a great tactic in fact. But sneaking past the guy who won't move in that narrow vent sure would be nice.
Edit:
Slippery is a good way to describe the effect. You can't walk through each other, but it sort of pushes you to the side that little bit.
Comments
on a sidenote, I hope that "boosting" will be possible in NS2, because that's an aspect that has been greately missed from for example cs:source. I still perfectly remember that one game against Knifegaming when they boosted most of their team through the ventilation in Waste on Tannith and got in under our hive and shot it down before anyone even knew where they were. Quality game, I thank everyone who participated <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
on a sidenote, I hope that "boosting" will be possible in NS2, because that's an aspect that has been greately missed from for example cs:source. I still perfectly remember that one game against Knifegaming when they boosted most of their team through the ventilation in Waste on Tannith and got in under our hive and shot it down before anyone even knew where they were. Quality game, I thank everyone who participated <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this post, this post agrees with me.
Team blocking comes with a price - but it makes the game so much more interesting and adds a whole new benefit. Boosting.
Plus, you could make it so that the clip code only works on the x/z axis; players could still boost.
If you're the size of a small dog and you get in a rhino's way, you deserve to be bashed to the side IMO. Good idea.
If fades and onii pushed the lifeforms out of the way due to mass, that would be awesome though =D
And more on topic, how funny would an onos charging into a group of skulks and gorges look with ragdoll effects on.
And what will rag doll effects do to the onos its self when it dies, this should probs be on another thread but its a bit to speculative to create a proper debate
large life forms should, and not just large faster moving life forms should push smaller ones even HA should push vanilla, and jps flying out of control with mass momentum should push vanilla, but most certainly should end up with other dead crash test dummies if you jet your self strait into a HA.
I guess I would be laughing more then running if I see an Onos charging down a corridor pushing everything out of its way towards my location in a traincrash vashion.
It does add a nice creepy atmosphere to it, remember the Gargantua from Half-Life one throwing cars around. Just imaging seeing that at the end of a corridor and knowing you have a waypoint there <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
That's the problem, really. It's one of those things that <i>everyone</i> should be aware of, but you can't reasonably expect that of new players. A game as complex as NS, simplifying trivial things like this could make a difference.
In a situation like a tight vent, skulks would still block each other. But, if the vent was opened up a bit, not enough to allow side-by-side passage with the NS1 code (which is actually a pretty large space), but enough so that two dog-like creatures could realistically pass by each other? Vast improvement.
Go stand in a doorway, straight or sideways, and ask someone to get past you. They'll brush right by. The current clipboxes are like theres a solid cement box around your person, and its far larger than realistic.
In my opinion the removal of teamblocking and blocking in general would be detrimental as it is a valid part of strategies to kill aliens and marines alike. Furthermore if you can randomly walk through people its just stupid, NS isn't exactly realistic (aliens and random technology etc) but come on there has to be some boundaries. However I have always thought that some type of knock-back for fast moving units would be good for example; A fade blinking at a million miles an hour smacks into a marine blocking a doorway wouldn't the marine sustain some damage or at least get knocked back?
Or am I going to get the "zomg nanites are holding them to the ground" arguement?
This is more about TEAM blocking, which is hardly a strategy anyone would ever use. It would be one hell of a far shot to say 'ok, we're in tanith, wait for the onos to come in then rush him SO THAT HIS TEAM WILL BLOCK HIM'. Noone can control the other team, and in such a case, it would pretty much be the mapper's onus to prevent such areas...
And we're not talking about players going right through each other. Boxes can't slide past each other unless they're perfectly separated. Imagine me and you walking down the street towards each other. If the farthest side of your shoulder is in front of the farthest side of my shoulder, would be knock into each other? Of course not. There is a good 6-10 inches of 'give', where the torso can rotate, of each person, to let the other by without a collision.
Thats not a 'realism vs fantasy' debate, thats fixing a long-standing bug. It hasnt been done until now because the engines weren't advanced enough, and the computers couldnt handle the extra computations. This should definitely be implemented.
This is more about TEAM blocking, which is hardly a strategy anyone would ever use. It would be one hell of a far shot to say 'ok, we're in tanith, wait for the onos to come in then rush him SO THAT HIS TEAM WILL BLOCK HIM'. No one can control the other team, and in such a case, it would pretty much be the mapper's onus to prevent such areas...
And we're not talking about players going right through each other. Boxes can't slide past each other unless they're perfectly separated. Imagine me and you walking down the street towards each other. If the farthest side of your shoulder is in front of the farthest side of my shoulder, would be knock into each other? Of course not. There is a good 6-10 inches of 'give', where the torso can rotate, of each person, to let the other by without a collision.
Thats not a 'realism vs fantasy' debate, thats fixing a long-standing bug. It hasn't been done until now because the engines weren't advanced enough, and the computers couldn't handle the extra computations. This should definitely be implemented.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really just don't like the idea of a bunch of gorges being able to bilebomb from the same vent. Making teammates "slippery" would be okay if it didn't prevent boosting, which I think it always would.
personally i want to see a jetpacker go flying around a corner, straight into a HA *thud* JP'er gets knocked to the ground, HA just laughs <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
yes i agree with earlier posters, teamblocking so more of an alien issue, due to their reliance on movement/speed. i think allowing a little teamblocking for marines wouldnt be such a bad thing.
<!--quoteo(post=1660492:date=Nov 13 2007, 10:02 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 13 2007, 10:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1660492"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really just don't like the idea of a bunch of gorges being able to bilebomb from the same vent. Making teammates "slippery" would be okay if it didn't prevent boosting, which I think it always would.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah small vents are the only problem really. 2 skulks/gorges/lerks shouldnt be able to sit side by side in a small vent, bileing/gassing etc.
one of the main problems i have with small vents is when you have some tard trying to run the way you came, and wont backtrack to let you pass. after a few minutes of biting/parasiting/chuckling one of you will eventually give in, but by then (due to 2 players mucking around in a vent and not in the field) you've lost a hive, or res node etc.
to correct these issues, slipping definately sounds like the way to go. if 1 alien tries to pass the other, he sort of just quickly slips past, and cannot sit side by side with the other alien. the models may require their own special animations for this move, otherwise the skins may clip, or it would just look plain ugly. that way no one could block any in a vent (deliberately or accidental), and we can prevent the vent spam issue locallyunscene mentioned earlier. you could maybe do the same with marines, have them wiggle past each other...
i dont think this would prevent boosting (if it will be included in ns2) as you just need to write the "slippy" code for the horisontal axises, not the vertical..
Again, i'm not talking about turning a player's clipbox into a clipsphere. Players would still have flat clip surfaces on all 6 sides; front, back, left, right, top and bottom. Its just that the edges that connect these would be chamfered, meaning the corners would be cut partially. So instead of a player's x/z clip (front back left right) being only 4 sides, it would get another 4 sides, for the diagonals. The diagonal faces would let players walk into protruding details and continue moving forward (while being pushed out a bit), rather than stopping dead.
The additonal change mentioned here would be the squishing, which would let a player in such a case have his clipbox actually temporarily squish on that side. It would work for players as well as walls; not only can you move your shoulder to get past another person, you can move it to avoid having it hit the side of a doorway. Same idea.
But yeah, it isn't perfectly ghosting your team. You still sort of run into each other and seems (I think?) to bump you a bit sideways as you run past. Slippery is a good way to describe it actually. I guess it's like the clip hull is smaller for teammates. I'd imagine that a vent that intends for single file would still result in single file. It would have to be smaller, but if this is the intended effect of the mapper, then so be it.
I will say that <i>as a mapper</i> that is one of those rare but nonetheless pointed criticisms I've heard: Vents aren't wide enough most of the time. (It's one of those things can't test by myself, need other people.) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
But really, play TF2. Run around as a skulk-err scout. It just feels so much better when you aren't brought to a dead stop because your hand brushed that heavy that strafed just a tiny bit sideways in front of you at the last second.
Anyway, I'm going to edit my first post because slippery is a good way to describe the effect.
honoustly you knock a marine backwards into other marines usually he stops dead so you land that second bite. but no now hes knock backed through his entire team and your not going to get to him.
What about upon damage you become unslippary, your in to much of a hurry to be curtious you see a skulk drop at you bite your face off I am sure your going to jump back fly back into your mates who also haven't reacted, in which case your arms are out ever were you trying to cling to them screaming, not oh sorry bob my face has been bitten off let me sqweese past mate at a million miles per hours. perhaps your only slippary when you walk? running marines are still going to head but into each other and end up on there arse in a tangled mess.
I can imagine many rascals will love the idea of knockback as it will allow them to push team mates off edges and into places they don't want to go. You have to consider the new problems that this 'fix' will create.
I tend to look at it this way. As of right now, anyone can teamblock: from the lowliest skulk to the beastliest onos. Knockback would only occur if the player is larger than you, severely limiting the amount of laming that can occur in that respect.
Not pushing i am only talking about "fast" moving people so someone thats jetpacking really fast or an onos charging or a fade blinking skulk bunnyhopping fast or leaping.