<div class="IPBDescription">In Finland...</div>About noon local time A last year college student started shooting in class. Currently he is still inside the school and propably has hostages.
<!--quoteo(post=1659678:date=Nov 7 2007, 07:36 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NeonSpyder @ Nov 7 2007, 07:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659678"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only in Ameri-... oh. Wait, what?
Bummer. I liked Finland. Hope that works out for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Liked, as in past tense? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
====================
Hope no one got hurt or killed, nothing on the local news yet regarding this.
This is the only article I see on it so far. <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7082795.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7082795.stm</a>
8 Dead and sever wounded. They are having an press conference in few minutes.
The IRC was full of links. He was busy uploading everything on how he would do it. Youtube links of gun testing and checking the school grounds. He wrote several manifests and blog entry about how he envies everyone and bah...
The news just said that there are 8 dead, and the shooter is in critical condition in the hospital. Shot himself in the head. Non-existent chances of survival.
It's too bad they always have to be so cliche and kill themselves. It'd be interesting if one of them actually SURVIVED for once so we could hear his manifesto afterwards, especially in light of the actual events. Was it liberating? Did he get a power rush? Did he feel remorse? Regret? Those are all very interesting questions, and because the killers are always so inconsiderate and off themselves, we never get any answers. How rude. >:|
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
I got this off the firehose on slashdot. Chilling to say the least. These are supposedly the shooter's words from a clip on youtube: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection. You might ask yourselves, why did I do this and what do I want. Well, most of you are too arrogant and closed-minded to understand... You will proprably say me that I am"insane", "crazy", "psychopath", "criminal" or crap like that. No, the truth is that I am just an animl, a human, an individual, a dissident.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1659743:date=Nov 7 2007, 10:14 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 7 2007, 10:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wouldn't exactly trust a mass-murderer to be a lucid, logical clear-thinker.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It would make for better books and movies.
I'd like to visit his lifeless body in the hospital and whisper to him, if he still might be able to hear and understand, that in two weeks he'll be gone from the papers, and he'll be either remembered as just another suicidal emo kid, or else completely forgotten. Likely the latter.
<!--quoteo(post=1659746:date=Nov 7 2007, 12:49 PM:name=Zig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zig @ Nov 7 2007, 12:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would make for better books and movies.
I'd like to visit his lifeless body in the hospital and whisper to him, if he still might be able to hear and understand, that in two weeks he'll be gone from the papers, and he'll be either remembered as just another suicidal emo kid, or else completely forgotten. Likely the latter.
Poor guy. He didn't even set any records.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not any <i>American</i> records. That's probably a record in Finland.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1659747:date=Nov 7 2007, 10:52 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 7 2007, 10:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not any <i>American</i> records. That's probably a record in Finland.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That fact in of itself makes it all the more forgettable. lol
I mean... we still.. sort of remember the asian dude. One, because he took those fruity Tomb Raider photos, and two, because he holds the world record for a 1 person school massacre IIRC.
Other than columbine's "trench coat mafia", I fail to recall any facts about any one school shooter kid in the past decade or two.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1659750:date=Nov 7 2007, 01:56 PM:name=Zig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zig @ Nov 7 2007, 01:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That fact in of itself makes it all the more forgettable. lol
I mean... we still.. sort of remember the asian dude. One, because he took those fruity Tomb Raider photos, and two, because he holds the world record for a 1 person school massacre IIRC.
Other than columbine's "trench coat mafia", I fail to recall any facts about any one school shooter kid in the past decade or two.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> heh, I remember one other simply b/c he had the same name as some one my HS friends knew who had just moved to the same state as the shooting so our response was "HOLY ######! HE DID IT!" (kid was a twit)
<!--quoteo(post=1659737:date=Nov 7 2007, 12:48 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Nov 7 2007, 12:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659737"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think he has(had?) a fundamental misunderstanding of natural selection.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> yarly. like, nice try dude, but you failed at natural selection faster than like 90% of the rest of humanity.
Sigh...I suffer from excessive use of ellipses as well as you can see - and even then it's kinda flawed typing cause I don't ever type a space after the dots <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
And don't ask me how the hell it ended up sticking with me but it's been a bad habit for years and can only be controlled if I consciously think about it whilst typing something.
But I hope you don't find me offensive in any way <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Anyway, back to the shootings, the guy was just some random nutcase who happened to have mental issues. In the end it's irrelevant that he did what he did or for what reason he did it. Fact is that there'll always be someone like that. Sure, prevention helps, but in the end there's not much that you can do. Well, destroying every single firearm in the world would probably help quite a bit, but still. The nutcases will remain.
I suppose it's also why the U.S is so famous for their constant shootings. I suppose that they have the same average number of crazy people per capita as any other country, except for the fact that these crazies happen to have a much higher probability of ending up with a firearm which thus results in your average Columbine scenario. Doesn't mean that it won't happen elsewhere in the world as well though. Just that it's way more likely for it to happen (as proven) in the good old U.S of A.
<!--quoteo(post=1659781:date=Nov 7 2007, 09:23 PM:name=Skyrage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Skyrage @ Nov 7 2007, 09:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659781"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sigh...I suffer from excessive use of ellipses as well as you can see - and even then it's kinda flawed typing cause I don't ever type a space after the dots <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
And don't ask me how the hell it ended up sticking with me but it's been a bad habit for years and can only be controlled if I consciously think about it whilst typing something.
But I hope you don't find me offensive in any way <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We still love you no matter what! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1659781:date=Nov 7 2007, 04:23 PM:name=Skyrage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Skyrage @ Nov 7 2007, 04:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659781"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyway, back to the shootings, the guy was just some random nutcase who happened to have mental issues. In the end it's irrelevant that he did what he did or for what reason he did it. Fact is that there'll always be someone like that. Sure, prevention helps, but in the end there's not much that you can do. Well, destroying every single firearm in the world would probably help quite a bit, but still. The nutcases will remain.
I suppose it's also why the U.S is so famous for their constant shootings. I suppose that they have the same average number of crazy people per capita as any other country, except for the fact that these crazies happen to have a much higher probability of ending up with a firearm which thus results in your average Columbine scenario. Doesn't mean that it won't happen elsewhere in the world as well though. Just that it's way more likely for it to happen (as proven) in the good old U.S of A.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nutcases aren't the only people in America with firearms. Most of us are just protective of our families and our property. Personally my household in total has around twelve weapons and only five people live here. I am awaiting the zombie invasion/civil uprising I keep my options open.
I know a man who runs a gun shop in the city and he is a die hard the south will rise again, however to my knowledge he has never shot anyone. He owned around one-hundred and twenty weapons. Automatics/semis/rpgs/machine guns/white phosper grenades/mortars. I say he owned because the ATF came recently and confiscated seventy of these weapons. Even though this crazy ###### owns enough weapons to start his own militia, he has never broken any law and they only documented taking sixty of the seventy weapons they took. Not to mention the first time I met him in his shop he was strapped with a heckler pistol. To the point now.
Removing guns in the world will not stop violence, people are inherently violent. People kill people, whether with a rock or an uzi. It's been this way since the neanderthals. Expecting it to change because you took away a popgun is simply retarded. They will simply use other means to self-destruct.
We prepare ourselves for tragedies such as natural disasters in schools. To my knowledge there has yet to be a drill on how to exit a building that is under attack by one of it's own students. Is there such a drill? Can one be made?
If everyone of these kids who went off and committed mass-murder have the same pysche, how come no one notices before? How come the FBI hasn't created a pysche profile on disturbed individuals such as these? People with no history of violence who seem socially disconnected and have few or no friends at all. They walk with their heads down and rarely acknowledge someone who speaks to them. They enjoy their spare time by going to a firing range or uploading their thoughts to youtube. Is it so hard to recognize these individuals and prevent them from having access to firearms? Or maybe put them on medication? Or would this be violating their rights and the constitution? If you can't help them this way how do you? Can we create a special program in the military and kidnap them in the night creating a suicide squad of crazy kids, give them guns and send them overseas to wreck as much havoc as they like before they all shoot themselves in the head?
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1659897:date=Nov 8 2007, 10:02 AM:name=PerfectionsFlaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PerfectionsFlaw @ Nov 8 2007, 10:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659897"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can we create a special program in the military and kidnap them in the night creating a suicide squad of crazy kids, give them guns and send them overseas to wreck as much havoc as they like before they all shoot themselves in the head?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We already have that. It's the Marines. I'm in it.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1659897:date=Nov 8 2007, 01:02 PM:name=PerfectionsFlaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PerfectionsFlaw @ Nov 8 2007, 01:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659897"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nutcases aren't the only people in America with firearms. Most of us are just protective of our families and our property. Personally my household in total has around twelve weapons and only five people live here. I am awaiting the zombie invasion/civil uprising I keep my options open.
I know a man who runs a gun shop in the city and he is a die hard the south will rise again, however to my knowledge he has never shot anyone. He owned around one-hundred and twenty weapons. Automatics/semis/rpgs/machine guns/white phosper grenades/mortars. I say he owned because the ATF came recently and confiscated seventy of these weapons. Even though this crazy ###### owns enough weapons to start his own militia, he has never broken any law and they only documented taking sixty of the seventy weapons they took. Not to mention the first time I met him in his shop he was strapped with a heckler pistol. To the point now.
Removing guns in the world will not stop violence, people are inherently violent. People kill people, whether with a rock or an uzi. It's been this way since the neanderthals. Expecting it to change because you took away a popgun is simply retarded. They will simply use other means to self-destruct.
We prepare ourselves for tragedies such as natural disasters in schools. To my knowledge there has yet to be a drill on how to exit a building that is under attack by one of it's own students. Is there such a drill? Can one be made?
If everyone of these kids who went off and committed mass-murder have the same pysche, how come no one notices before? How come the FBI hasn't created a pysche profile on disturbed individuals such as these? People with no history of violence who seem socially disconnected and have few or no friends at all. They walk with their heads down and rarely acknowledge someone who speaks to them. They enjoy their spare time by going to a firing range or uploading their thoughts to youtube. Is it so hard to recognize these individuals and prevent them from having access to firearms? Or maybe put them on medication? Or would this be violating their rights and the constitution? If you can't help them this way how do you? Can we create a special program in the military and kidnap them in the night creating a suicide squad of crazy kids, give them guns and send them overseas to wreck as much havoc as they like before they all shoot themselves in the head?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The question is simply this, would a reduced number of deaths be worth limiting the freedom of gun use in the US. In my mind it would. I agree a nutcase is still a nutcase, but a nutcase with a gun can kill many more people than if he had a rock, or even a hunting bow.
I generally accept The Bill of Rights as inalienable Rights, but the right to bear arms has become a very different beast from what it was originally. I think the purpose of that right is to try to guarantee that the People would have the ability to overthrow an unjust government(as a last resort of course). However the gap between the military and the general civilian public is huge, much more so than during revolutionary or even civil war times. Very simply almost everyone would have to be trained in assault weapon use for a "well regulated militia" with the "right to bear arms" to serve its intended purpose.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--quoteo(post=1659902:date=Nov 8 2007, 10:24 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Nov 8 2007, 10:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The question is simply this, would a reduced number of deaths be worth limiting the freedom of gun use in the US. In my mind it would. I agree a nutcase is still a nutcase, but a nutcase with a gun can kill many more people than if he had a rock, or even a hunting bow.
I generally accept The Bill of Rights as inalienable Rights, but the right to bear arms has become a very different beast from what it was originally. I think the purpose of that right is to try to guarantee that the People would have the ability to overthrow an unjust government(as a last resort of course). However the gap between the military and the general civilian public is huge, much more so than during revolutionary or even civil war times. Very simply almost everyone would have to be trained in assault weapon use for a "well regulated militia" with the "right to bear arms" to serve its intended purpose.
My two cents.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One of the things to consider is the inevitable and immediate spike in gun-related crime as normal registered owners turn in their firearms. The statistical phenomenon, IIRC, was identical in Australia and the UK. Couple that with the vastly greater numbers of firearms and gun crime already existing in the US, and you can expect that trend of to last longer and generally be worse. There will be more crime, simply due to the present situation. I don't think we would be able to confiscate even the majority (51%) of guns in the United States in 50 years. Maybe even a damn century.
<!--quoteo(post=1659897:date=Nov 8 2007, 01:02 PM:name=PerfectionsFlaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PerfectionsFlaw @ Nov 8 2007, 01:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659897"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If everyone of these kids who went off and committed mass-murder have the same pysche, how come no one notices before? How come the FBI hasn't created a pysche profile on disturbed individuals such as these? People with no history of violence who seem socially disconnected and have few or no friends at all. They walk with their heads down and rarely acknowledge someone who speaks to them. They enjoy their spare time by going to a firing range or uploading their thoughts to youtube. Is it so hard to recognize these individuals and prevent them from having access to firearms? Or maybe put them on medication? Or would this be violating their rights and the constitution? If you can't help them this way how do you? Can we create a special program in the military and kidnap them in the night creating a suicide squad of crazy kids, give them guns and send them overseas to wreck as much havoc as they like before they all shoot themselves in the head?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have few friends, am socially disconnected, and walk with my head down... please don't send me away <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1659905:date=Nov 8 2007, 01:33 PM:name=Zig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zig @ Nov 8 2007, 01:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659905"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One of the things to consider is the inevitable and immediate spike in gun-related crime as normal registered owners turn in their firearms. The statistical phenomenon, IIRC, was identical in Australia and the UK. Couple that with the vastly greater numbers of firearms and gun crime already existing in the US, and you can expect that trend of to last longer and generally be worse. There will be more crime, simply due to the present situation. I don't think we would be able to confiscate even the majority (51%) of guns in the United States in 50 years. Maybe even a damn century.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A temporary spike would be worth a lower average, I don't think it would take 50 years for that spike to settle either. The country would just need to reach a threshold where it would be difficult for petty criminals to find guns. If the average desperate crackhead/methhead burglar can't find a gun there would be far fewer deaths.
I don't think it will happen regardless, the security blanket of the second amendment is just too entrenched in this country.
After the Columbine High shooting an investigation into 37 (I think) different school shootings was launched by (again, I think) the FBI. One of the conclusions was that there is no common profile for the shooters, thus profiling is not possible.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
I am from Canada, eh?
But seriously, I'm in the "Guns are bad, get rid of them" boat along with many other people. Principally because I am in agreement with the notion that "Psychos are Psychos, and they will kill regardless if they have guns or not, but a Psycho with a gun can kill a lot more people then a Psycho with a sword, a bow or a heavy stick can." This is common sense to me, and the people I know. From my perspective there are really only two reasonable options that we must eventually employ to avoid catastrophic situations where one psycho with an assault weapon can kill dozens of people:
Everybody has guns scenario:
Psychos inflict less damage because him, along with everyone else in a classroom/office environment also has a weapon and once the psycho initiates his destructive rampage the other people in the office/school shoot him.
Nobody but military/police have guns:
This is the situation in Canada, excepting hunting rifles, nobody has a gun aside from police officers or military personnel. Oh yes, and gang members who smuggle in guns from the United States of <strike>Freedom,</strike> America.
In this scenario we find that gun-related deaths are very low because why? Nobody has a gun. Criminals are forced to use weapons that limit their potential lethality as an individual. People will still rob old ladies, but instead of shooting and killing them because the old lady blinked funny and the criminal is high on everything, the criminal instead hits the old lady with a bat, or a stick, or a rock, or something else, giving the old lady good odds to survive. This is true for anyone being robbed, if they are deemed a threat by the criminal and attacked.
You can't sit there and tell me with a straight face that limiting gun access to people who actually need them is a bad thing? If everyone has a gun it allows people who would use them easy EASY access to them! Would you prefer the mugger who has you cornered in an alley to have a knife or a gun? Answer honestly now.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1659913:date=Nov 8 2007, 02:19 PM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NeonSpyder @ Nov 8 2007, 02:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1659913"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't sit there and tell me with a straight face that limiting gun access to people who actually need them is a bad thing? If everyone has a gun it allows people who would use them easy EASY access to them! Would you prefer the mugger who has you cornered in an alley to have a knife or a gun? Answer honestly now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good question. Also in this scenario(as in many scenarios) the mugger all ready has his gun trained on you. Even if you own a gun and are carrying it you are powerless to use it.
And if everyone were carrying an unconcealed weapon it wouldn't really deter the mugger since he is going to try to mug <i>somebody</i>.
Comments
Bummer. I liked Finland. Hope that works out for you.
Bummer. I liked Finland. Hope that works out for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Liked, as in past tense? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
====================
Hope no one got hurt or killed, nothing on the local news yet regarding this.
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7082795.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7082795.stm</a>
<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/user/Sturmgeist89" target="_blank">Visit HIS Website</a>
8 Dead and sever wounded. They are having an press conference in few minutes.
The IRC was full of links. He was busy uploading everything on how he would do it. Youtube links of gun testing and checking the school grounds.
He wrote several manifests and blog entry about how he envies everyone and bah...
HERE? In Finland. geez...
Of course tabloids are running rampart.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection.
You might ask yourselves, why did I do this and what do I want. Well, most of you are too arrogant and closed-minded to understand... You will proprably say me that I am"insane", "crazy", "psychopath", "criminal" or crap like that. No, the truth is that I am just an animl, a human, an individual, a dissident.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would make for better books and movies.
I'd like to visit his lifeless body in the hospital and whisper to him, if he still might be able to hear and understand, that in two weeks he'll be gone from the papers, and he'll be either remembered as just another suicidal emo kid, or else completely forgotten. Likely the latter.
Poor guy. He didn't even set any records.
I'd like to visit his lifeless body in the hospital and whisper to him, if he still might be able to hear and understand, that in two weeks he'll be gone from the papers, and he'll be either remembered as just another suicidal emo kid, or else completely forgotten. Likely the latter.
Poor guy. He didn't even set any records.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not any <i>American</i> records. That's probably a record in Finland.
That fact in of itself makes it all the more forgettable. lol
I mean... we still.. sort of remember the asian dude. One, because he took those fruity Tomb Raider photos, and two, because he holds the world record for a 1 person school massacre IIRC.
Other than columbine's "trench coat mafia", I fail to recall any facts about any one school shooter kid in the past decade or two.
I mean... we still.. sort of remember the asian dude. One, because he took those fruity Tomb Raider photos, and two, because he holds the world record for a 1 person school massacre IIRC.
Other than columbine's "trench coat mafia", I fail to recall any facts about any one school shooter kid in the past decade or two.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
heh, I remember one other simply b/c he had the same name as some one my HS friends knew who had just moved to the same state as the shooting so our response was "HOLY ######! HE DID IT!" (kid was a twit)
yarly. like, nice try dude, but you failed at natural selection faster than like 90% of the rest of humanity.
And don't ask me how the hell it ended up sticking with me but it's been a bad habit for years and can only be controlled if I consciously think about it whilst typing something.
But I hope you don't find me offensive in any way <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Anyway, back to the shootings, the guy was just some random nutcase who happened to have mental issues. In the end it's irrelevant that he did what he did or for what reason he did it. Fact is that there'll always be someone like that. Sure, prevention helps, but in the end there's not much that you can do. Well, destroying every single firearm in the world would probably help quite a bit, but still. The nutcases will remain.
I suppose it's also why the U.S is so famous for their constant shootings. I suppose that they have the same average number of crazy people per capita as any other country, except for the fact that these crazies happen to have a much higher probability of ending up with a firearm which thus results in your average Columbine scenario. Doesn't mean that it won't happen elsewhere in the world as well though. Just that it's way more likely for it to happen (as proven) in the good old U.S of A.
And don't ask me how the hell it ended up sticking with me but it's been a bad habit for years and can only be controlled if I consciously think about it whilst typing something.
But I hope you don't find me offensive in any way <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We still love you no matter what! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I suppose it's also why the U.S is so famous for their constant shootings. I suppose that they have the same average number of crazy people per capita as any other country, except for the fact that these crazies happen to have a much higher probability of ending up with a firearm which thus results in your average Columbine scenario. Doesn't mean that it won't happen elsewhere in the world as well though. Just that it's way more likely for it to happen (as proven) in the good old U.S of A.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nutcases aren't the only people in America with firearms. Most of us are just protective of our families and our property. Personally my household in total has around twelve weapons and only five people live here. I am awaiting the zombie invasion/civil uprising I keep my options open.
I know a man who runs a gun shop in the city and he is a die hard the south will rise again, however to my knowledge he has never shot anyone. He owned around one-hundred and twenty weapons. Automatics/semis/rpgs/machine guns/white phosper grenades/mortars. I say he owned because the ATF came recently and confiscated seventy of these weapons. Even though this crazy ###### owns enough weapons to start his own militia, he has never broken any law and they only documented taking sixty of the seventy weapons they took. Not to mention the first time I met him in his shop he was strapped with a heckler pistol. To the point now.
Removing guns in the world will not stop violence, people are inherently violent. People kill people, whether with a rock or an uzi. It's been this way since the neanderthals. Expecting it to change because you took away a popgun is simply retarded. They will simply use other means to self-destruct.
We prepare ourselves for tragedies such as natural disasters in schools. To my knowledge there has yet to be a drill on how to exit a building that is under attack by one of it's own students. Is there such a drill? Can one be made?
If everyone of these kids who went off and committed mass-murder have the same pysche, how come no one notices before? How come the FBI hasn't created a pysche profile on disturbed individuals such as these? People with no history of violence who seem socially disconnected and have few or no friends at all. They walk with their heads down and rarely acknowledge someone who speaks to them. They enjoy their spare time by going to a firing range or uploading their thoughts to youtube. Is it so hard to recognize these individuals and prevent them from having access to firearms? Or maybe put them on medication? Or would this be violating their rights and the constitution? If you can't help them this way how do you? Can we create a special program in the military and kidnap them in the night creating a suicide squad of crazy kids, give them guns and send them overseas to wreck as much havoc as they like before they all shoot themselves in the head?
We already have that. It's the Marines. I'm in it.
I know a man who runs a gun shop in the city and he is a die hard the south will rise again, however to my knowledge he has never shot anyone. He owned around one-hundred and twenty weapons. Automatics/semis/rpgs/machine guns/white phosper grenades/mortars. I say he owned because the ATF came recently and confiscated seventy of these weapons. Even though this crazy ###### owns enough weapons to start his own militia, he has never broken any law and they only documented taking sixty of the seventy weapons they took. Not to mention the first time I met him in his shop he was strapped with a heckler pistol. To the point now.
Removing guns in the world will not stop violence, people are inherently violent. People kill people, whether with a rock or an uzi. It's been this way since the neanderthals. Expecting it to change because you took away a popgun is simply retarded. They will simply use other means to self-destruct.
We prepare ourselves for tragedies such as natural disasters in schools. To my knowledge there has yet to be a drill on how to exit a building that is under attack by one of it's own students. Is there such a drill? Can one be made?
If everyone of these kids who went off and committed mass-murder have the same pysche, how come no one notices before? How come the FBI hasn't created a pysche profile on disturbed individuals such as these? People with no history of violence who seem socially disconnected and have few or no friends at all. They walk with their heads down and rarely acknowledge someone who speaks to them. They enjoy their spare time by going to a firing range or uploading their thoughts to youtube. Is it so hard to recognize these individuals and prevent them from having access to firearms? Or maybe put them on medication? Or would this be violating their rights and the constitution? If you can't help them this way how do you? Can we create a special program in the military and kidnap them in the night creating a suicide squad of crazy kids, give them guns and send them overseas to wreck as much havoc as they like before they all shoot themselves in the head?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The question is simply this, would a reduced number of deaths be worth limiting the freedom of gun use in the US. In my mind it would. I agree a nutcase is still a nutcase, but a nutcase with a gun can kill many more people than if he had a rock, or even a hunting bow.
I generally accept The Bill of Rights as inalienable Rights, but the right to bear arms has become a very different beast from what it was originally. I think the purpose of that right is to try to guarantee that the People would have the ability to overthrow an unjust government(as a last resort of course). However the gap between the military and the general civilian public is huge, much more so than during revolutionary or even civil war times. Very simply almost everyone would have to be trained in assault weapon use for a "well regulated militia" with the "right to bear arms" to serve its intended purpose.
My two cents.
I generally accept The Bill of Rights as inalienable Rights, but the right to bear arms has become a very different beast from what it was originally. I think the purpose of that right is to try to guarantee that the People would have the ability to overthrow an unjust government(as a last resort of course). However the gap between the military and the general civilian public is huge, much more so than during revolutionary or even civil war times. Very simply almost everyone would have to be trained in assault weapon use for a "well regulated militia" with the "right to bear arms" to serve its intended purpose.
My two cents.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One of the things to consider is the inevitable and immediate spike in gun-related crime as normal registered owners turn in their firearms. The statistical phenomenon, IIRC, was identical in Australia and the UK. Couple that with the vastly greater numbers of firearms and gun crime already existing in the US, and you can expect that trend of to last longer and generally be worse. There will be more crime, simply due to the present situation. I don't think we would be able to confiscate even the majority (51%) of guns in the United States in 50 years. Maybe even a damn century.
I have few friends, am socially disconnected, and walk with my head down... please don't send me away <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
A temporary spike would be worth a lower average, I don't think it would take 50 years for that spike to settle either. The country would just need to reach a threshold where it would be difficult for petty criminals to find guns. If the average desperate crackhead/methhead burglar can't find a gun there would be far fewer deaths.
I don't think it will happen regardless, the security blanket of the second amendment is just too entrenched in this country.
But seriously, I'm in the "Guns are bad, get rid of them" boat along with many other people. Principally because I am in agreement with the notion that "Psychos are Psychos, and they will kill regardless if they have guns or not, but a Psycho with a gun can kill a lot more people then a Psycho with a sword, a bow or a heavy stick can." This is common sense to me, and the people I know. From my perspective there are really only two reasonable options that we must eventually employ to avoid catastrophic situations where one psycho with an assault weapon can kill dozens of people:
Everybody has guns scenario:
Psychos inflict less damage because him, along with everyone else in a classroom/office environment also has a weapon and once the psycho initiates his destructive rampage the other people in the office/school shoot him.
Nobody but military/police have guns:
This is the situation in Canada, excepting hunting rifles, nobody has a gun aside from police officers or military personnel. Oh yes, and gang members who smuggle in guns from the United States of <strike>Freedom,</strike> America.
In this scenario we find that gun-related deaths are very low because why? Nobody has a gun. Criminals are forced to use weapons that limit their potential lethality as an individual. People will still rob old ladies, but instead of shooting and killing them because the old lady blinked funny and the criminal is high on everything, the criminal instead hits the old lady with a bat, or a stick, or a rock, or something else, giving the old lady good odds to survive. This is true for anyone being robbed, if they are deemed a threat by the criminal and attacked.
You can't sit there and tell me with a straight face that limiting gun access to people who actually need them is a bad thing? If everyone has a gun it allows people who would use them easy EASY access to them! Would you prefer the mugger who has you cornered in an alley to have a knife or a gun? Answer honestly now.
Good question. Also in this scenario(as in many scenarios) the mugger all ready has his gun trained on you. Even if you own a gun and are carrying it you are powerless to use it.
And if everyone were carrying an unconcealed weapon it wouldn't really deter the mugger since he is going to try to mug <i>somebody</i>.