Dynamic waypointing system
BigD
[OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
[OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Think, greyhounds chasing the mechanical rabbit at a racetrack.</div>Per <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=103049&view=findpost&p=1657434" target="_blank">this thread.</a>
Waypoints are at the farthest point of a room, in a direction you need to follow to get to your waypoint. It uses a preset waypoint set by the mapper much like creating bot waypoints (with the last one being generated in game by the commander.) Anyone that's created bot waypoints might understand my example better.
<!--QuoteBegin-I+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(I)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Simple example:
Comm drops a waypoint in T-junc of eclipse. I'm in ms. The waypoint that appears on my screen is at the doors, but as I move through the doors, the waypoint moves out into the hallway. As I go around the corner, the way point (following a preset path likely) moves down the hallway as far as I can see. I keep following that waypoint as it goes around the corner down into horseshoe, and finally follow it down to where it stops in t-junc.
On one hand, this might be hell to implement. On the other hand, using preset paths (much like bot waypoints) could it be that terribly difficult? All the sprite would have to do is move around relative to do that path, and the final waypoint being the commanders waypoint. This way, the new player has something to follow. Hell, everyone has something to follow. And they aren't walking around with their head in a map. Maybe have the route highlighted for the comm so he can optimize if some bug results in the route going the long way (and avoid "omg nubs don't go that way").
Maybe have the same thing happen when a hive is under attack (or structure or teammate, you just move toward the icon that you need to save.)
If wanted to get really fancy, have the icon indicate distance (I think the waypoints do this now?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Though, another way to do this is to have in those waypoints, a sort of beam sprite, like when you're editing bot waypoints right now in NS, only a bit fancier. Think Hera's readyroom, but built on the fly and colored/styled depending on what team you're on. Wouldn't need many "prebuilt" waypoints, like we do for bots, just a simple trail through most of the map. I'm thinking major, high traffic routes. Obscure vents and secret ninja areas aside.
If the comm (or something) drops a waypoint in a place that has no line of sight to one of these presets, then it's back to square one, looking at the map to find it. But this could make life so much easier for newbies anyway.
The tricky part would be determining what can and can't be see by the player at the moment, but really, the A.I. algorithms already do something like this don't they?
Thoughts?
Waypoints are at the farthest point of a room, in a direction you need to follow to get to your waypoint. It uses a preset waypoint set by the mapper much like creating bot waypoints (with the last one being generated in game by the commander.) Anyone that's created bot waypoints might understand my example better.
<!--QuoteBegin-I+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(I)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Simple example:
Comm drops a waypoint in T-junc of eclipse. I'm in ms. The waypoint that appears on my screen is at the doors, but as I move through the doors, the waypoint moves out into the hallway. As I go around the corner, the way point (following a preset path likely) moves down the hallway as far as I can see. I keep following that waypoint as it goes around the corner down into horseshoe, and finally follow it down to where it stops in t-junc.
On one hand, this might be hell to implement. On the other hand, using preset paths (much like bot waypoints) could it be that terribly difficult? All the sprite would have to do is move around relative to do that path, and the final waypoint being the commanders waypoint. This way, the new player has something to follow. Hell, everyone has something to follow. And they aren't walking around with their head in a map. Maybe have the route highlighted for the comm so he can optimize if some bug results in the route going the long way (and avoid "omg nubs don't go that way").
Maybe have the same thing happen when a hive is under attack (or structure or teammate, you just move toward the icon that you need to save.)
If wanted to get really fancy, have the icon indicate distance (I think the waypoints do this now?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Though, another way to do this is to have in those waypoints, a sort of beam sprite, like when you're editing bot waypoints right now in NS, only a bit fancier. Think Hera's readyroom, but built on the fly and colored/styled depending on what team you're on. Wouldn't need many "prebuilt" waypoints, like we do for bots, just a simple trail through most of the map. I'm thinking major, high traffic routes. Obscure vents and secret ninja areas aside.
If the comm (or something) drops a waypoint in a place that has no line of sight to one of these presets, then it's back to square one, looking at the map to find it. But this could make life so much easier for newbies anyway.
The tricky part would be determining what can and can't be see by the player at the moment, but really, the A.I. algorithms already do something like this don't they?
Thoughts?
Comments
To combat the problem of the persistent waypoint, have it disappear from view as soon as the player comes within a certain distance of the waypoint, while it still takes up very little of the screen. People can figure out where they are needed themselves at that point (or the next dynamic waypoint appears for them to follow). Though the commander should have a "Guard this area" command he can use. Perhaps in this instance the room or area selected glows gently rather than an intrusive, large 'sign'.
-Ryan!
"With Heaven's aid I have conquered for you a huge empire. But my life was too short to achieve the conquest of the world. That task is left for you."
-- Genghis Khan, to his sons at the end of his life
It'd say "If you want to help build base, then stick around and press 'e' on any buildings that are flashing. If you want to build resource towers and start expanding, you can move here or here."
At this point, <b>little 'Pacman' spheres </b>come up in a <b>nice little 'breadcrumb trail' </b>that lead you out of the base in different direction <b>to the nearest 2 or 3 RT's</b>. We're talking <u>little pacman spheres </u>laying on the ground!!! The <u>spheres could be laid down by default by the mapper</u>, so that a complex AI or bot intelligence doesn't need to do it independently (ie, hardcode it).
AND TBH, Who wouldn't want to eat the spheres?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /><img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> WHO?? WHO? I'd eat the spheres for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I'd eat them at supertime. I'd be like BABY--SPHERES DOWN!!! SPHERES DOWN!!! OHHH YAAAAA. I'd prolly leave the tutorial mode up for weeks, just so that i could eat little pacman spheres all the way to the first few RT's and even past then. LoL.
Pacman spheres > EVERYTHING IN the entire GAMING WORLD. Even Halo sticky nades.
EDIT: <u>Implement additional Pacman spheres to plop down (textured for whatever job) a path for anywhere the commander wants you to go</u>. Thereby, the commander can give people additional Pacman spheres to eat. EVEN BETTER.......<u>have a "Pacman Packinator" award for whichever marines ate the most spheres</u>. Dudes, this is the best newbie-friendly idea EVER in the history of gaming!!!
Would let you show last scene position of skulk or stuff like that, or I need help go stand "THERE".
A breadcrumb style, that would work too. But not persistent all the time... having a billion different paths to choose from would sort of defeat the purpose. (MasterPTG, go get yourself that cookie. I can tell yer craving it. Dooo eeet!) This was sort of what I was getting at towards the end of my post, but breadcrumbs actually describes it better. Plus, this might actually be so un-destracting that it might be good enough for most people to be encouraged to leave turned on.
An AI I don't think would be too complex at all. The path finding is already done by bots such as whichbot (and ye olde podbot of cstrike), it would just be optimized to not take random routes (always pick shortest route and highlight just that.) If servers could handle PODBot back in 2002 in cs maps, they could handle this. Hell, I bet it could be done easily in LUA as an addon if it didn't make the main game.
The alien system could be like... pheromones of old! (NS2.0 feature in NS2! Go me!)
It should be activated by default, and users could turn it to normal waypoint system in the options, or totaly disable waypoints being showed at other places then your map, to avoid the problem with the icon blocking your 1st person view.
AND TBH, Who wouldn't want to eat the spheres?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /><img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> WHO?? WHO? I'd eat the spheres for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I'd eat them at supertime. I'd be like BABY--SPHERES DOWN!!! SPHERES DOWN!!! OHHH YAAAAA. I'd prolly leave the tutorial mode up for weeks, just so that i could eat little pacman spheres all the way to the first few RT's and even past then. LoL.
Pacman spheres > EVERYTHING IN the entire GAMING WORLD. Even Halo sticky nades.
EDIT: <u>Implement additional Pacman spheres to plop down (textured for whatever job) a path for anywhere the commander wants you to go</u>. Thereby, the commander can give people additional Pacman spheres to eat. EVEN BETTER.......<u>have a "Pacman Packinator" award for whichever marines ate the most spheres</u>. Dudes, this is the best newbie-friendly idea EVER in the history of gaming!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
WAKKA WAKKA WAKKA WAKKA WAKKA WAKKA WAKKA WAKKA!!!!!!
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I also agree totally with eoy, that there should be the option to turn it back to the "oldschool" WP system, as many people may find it frustrating.
I'm pretty sure all the mapper would need to do to make it work is to add A.I nodes in his map. Then the arrow would use the node graph to find the waypoints. Maybe some different node types could be added, like vent nodes, that would only be used for Skulks and Lerks?
(pacman spheres on the floor leading to places).
I'm pretty sure that if you just 'lead' the newbies to the first few RT's (as marines), then that would simplify matters greatly. Often NS maps are kinda complex and sometimes it's tough on the players' minds to have so many passages branching out. It's good to know that you're heading somewhere 'good'.
(pacman spheres leading to nearest RT's, a small blinking highlight that let's the alien know where MS is, and additional highlights to let them know where the marines are and are probably headed).
For aliens, have the marine start highlighted w/ a small flashing something on the screen for like 30 seconds. Also, this would be the -perfect- opportunity during this time to explain what RT's do (plop down pacman spheres for them to follow to get to the rt's), and tell them that "Right now the marines are on the other side of the map probably capping these [and it highlights them] RT's. You probably want to try to ambush them before they get to these [and it highlights the middle sets of RTs] RT's." This would be a -great- start for a tutorial and would be programmable (im pretty sure) by the mapper or a dev after the map has been completed.