NS2 and Combat
locallyunscene
Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Please, be gentle</div>This may be wishful thinking on my part but hope to have an actual discussion about whether NS2 should include combat in its first release or not.
Pro: NS appeals to a wider player set(more "casual" gamers)
Con: The player set tends to be divided between the two groups(the more casual gamer will probably not take the time to learn NS2 classic)
Pro: An introduction to a team game that might be too daunting to pick up and start playing from scratch
Con: Combat as it is doesn't actually teach many of the fundamentals of teamwork needed for NS classic
Pro: A sanctioned version of combat the dev team has control over and can adjust as they needed
Con: The work could be done by the community if there is a demand for it and it would take longer for NS2 to be released
I think I know what most of the most vocal regulars of this forum will say, but combat shouldn't simply be dismissed out of hand. I've seen far more new players playing combat than NS, and getting wider audience appeal isn't something to just throw away without considering.
Pro: NS appeals to a wider player set(more "casual" gamers)
Con: The player set tends to be divided between the two groups(the more casual gamer will probably not take the time to learn NS2 classic)
Pro: An introduction to a team game that might be too daunting to pick up and start playing from scratch
Con: Combat as it is doesn't actually teach many of the fundamentals of teamwork needed for NS classic
Pro: A sanctioned version of combat the dev team has control over and can adjust as they needed
Con: The work could be done by the community if there is a demand for it and it would take longer for NS2 to be released
I think I know what most of the most vocal regulars of this forum will say, but combat shouldn't simply be dismissed out of hand. I've seen far more new players playing combat than NS, and getting wider audience appeal isn't something to just throw away without considering.
Comments
If people wanna play it, there will be a successful combat mode.
Maybe they will leave it to the community to add combat via lua to be able to spend more time on the actual ns2 gameplay, which seems the best move to me.
If they are really going to include this mode, they ought use the combat plugin NS:Territory as a basis, because it's a little closer to classic and probably better for new players to learn the game.
before combat there were so many ppl playing ns, and more teamwork was used.
when combat came out everyone only placed co maps, the teamwork in ns maps went to ziltch and then more than half of the australian gaming community for ns left because ns lost its fun etc because of co..
i dont like co, never have and always thought it was a bad idea.
1. Don't re-make Combat for NS2, leave it up to the LUA scripters and it can be balanced externally and unofficially based off the Classic gameplay. The old Combat maps can be ported by the community. This way the core Classic gameplay is never compromised by Combat.
2. Make a new version of Combat that is much closer to Classic, so close that any balance changes made to Classic won't affect Combat too much, and so on. The problem with this is that it requires extra time spent on design (new gameplay) and production (new maps).
What if the first round of the game was played as a combat map, and then, after a winner and loser are defined, the map would either open up (or change to a new map) that reflected a clear offensive/defensive team.
Like, if the aliens win, they start with a foward hive location (that can't be rebuilt) and the marines have to fight twice as hard to take back that position, and move up to reclaim the lost areas from losing the combat round.
From there, if the marines win, the map changes to reflect a marine foward position into alien territory, and the marines would be more on the offensive, and the aliens on a defensive.
This way, you get a fast paced round, and at least one normal strategic round. Players (like me) who suck at DM style games, would lose the combat round, but the strategy involved in reclaiming lost ground could always overcome the twitchy, bawls infused, dorito bearded team that is screaming "You stole my kill you ###### monger!"
This allows for an integration of combat to have an effect on the outcome on "the war," without removing it from the game. It falls in line with Charlie and Max's "embracing" of everything that the community wants.
For those that want combat only, it'd just be a matter of changing the "scenario" objectives to remove all the maps (or variables) that are determined at victory.
Look in the idea's section; there's plenty of suggestions on how to fix it.
Look in the idea's section; there's plenty of suggestions on how to fix it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
by removing it altogether ^_^ bring back ns!
Am I reading too much into what he's saying when I see "... seperate combat game mode ..." ? Or is that "there will be no other game mode."
Co ruins ns honoustly, one minute every kharaa is building happyly togther filling entire maps with structures, thre wasnt a res node you could run to that didnt have chabesr around it and oc's, every res node was a teleport heal bay that kept you hidden. then Co came, and every idiot thougt it was great to run blindly at your enamy and save res cos you have mad fade skills from playing co.
yet they still havent realised you cant guard all the map this way, its linger on the back of there subconsious, they just cant put their finger on it, and in turn wounder why they die a horrable death as does there team, so they go back to CO.
honoustly I hate how ns maps are now played like CO the single most fastest route between hive and rine base gets used. cool now what about the other 80% of the map.
dieing in NS plays such a far greater roll, maybe not so much for a sulk, but dieng as a sulk in ns is still heavyer on your team than dieng as any class in co.
He's saying it will be like NS was before combat came out in terms of the choices you have. Or at least in terms of the choice between an ns map and a co map.
The elitest comments about combat is bad, classic is good are tiring. I have played both and enjoy both. Each time I play one I start to think a lot about playing the other. So for me there's synergy between the two.
Just because you don't enjoy one or the other mode doesn't mean others share your view or appreciate you having an elitest attitude. There's a reason people play combat, and have evolved that game through custom mods. It's because they find it fun. Speaking of elitest attitudes, isn't it funny how combat has plenty of custom mods and creativity, but the classic mode is pretty much stagnant? Sure you can claim competition drives standards, but others might view those as entropy.
The insinuation that combat has declined the NS player base is also quite tiring. I find it amazing that none of you have commented that there could be better games, games that have actually evolved in the last few years, out there. Alternatively, you don't think people can get bored of a game? At this point half life is REALLY old and NS is also old. WOW is out there. If you want strategy and teamwork most people go raid and do it with 24+ teammates. Battlefield 2142 can be amazing teamwork, and scales way past 30 people per server.
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I find the comment from Max both hopeful and a bit troubling.
I have hoped for a while now there would be an integration of the best ideas from both modes. Ideally, a combat system with a commander mode, siege guns, squads, etc. And the ability for rines to get weapons on their own, or resupply etc. One thing I always hated about classic was the ability of one commander to dominate your ability to get a favorite weapon. Sure I want to work as a team, but spending 95% with enforced weapons is just lame.
1. Other game modes aren't ruled out.
2. A specifically 'Combat' mode IS ruled out.
3. An 'introductory' game mode, as defined in 1. has not been ruled out.
My (perhaps slightly hopeful) interpretation of this is that 'Combat' as we know it will eithe rnot exist of will be better integrated into the core game mode as a 'lighter' game mode, but not one that above all focuses on 'combat'.
now comes the lanparty of the year for the hungarian peoples of NS.
in the LAN parties the Combat mode of NS is NOT popullar
lan parties equals Classic "NS" game mode.
U can read more about NS LAN in hungary <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103015" target="_blank"> - Here - </a>
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
in the LAN parties the Combat mode of NS is NOT popullar
lan parties equals Classic "NS" game mode.
U can read more about NS LAN in hungary <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103015" target="_blank"> - Here - </a>
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what??? i dont even live in hungary... im on an island..
If Lua is willing, it will still be made.
Yeah it'll still be made, but with some luck none of the good coders will care and it will end up buggy and ###### :-)
Certainly didn't help it...
...it wasn't the murderer, but it was an accomplice.
Wouldn't Combat be the conservative mode of the two; since it features only a portion of what Classic mode has too offer, and is more similiar too other straightforward shooters?
Classic eventually "failed" as a game mode as it was not presented appropriately, nor was it ever balanced for public play despite the attempts of the people behind the game. Over time, players simply got tired of it. In terms of success, CO was eventually better and retained players that would have otherwise left NS completely.
Hopefully NS2 will bring back the mood of the "golden age" of NS (aka 1.04 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> )
If CO can attract some people to buy NS2, even if the CO mode is their only reason for doing so, there will still be greater chance, that some of them will convert to NS sooner or later?
And even if they don't then they will still be an active part of the community, and may even contribute to get other people to buy the game, and the new players may find NS more interesting then CO?
(hope it made sense, I am writing this in a rush)
Have to attend to class now, see you <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
That is acounting to player numbers, not gameplay though.