<!--QuoteBegin--Rue+Nov 26 2002, 09:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ Nov 26 2002, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Juji+Nov 25 2002, 09:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Juji @ Nov 25 2002, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Damage [Fairly equivalent] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> u shoot a skulk with a shotgun when its 2 foot away and yeh its the same dammage but when there a fair bit off HMG owns all<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> point is, you never want to be 2 feet away from a skulk.
LMG works just fine versus skulks, and shotgun IS useful later game when the aliens are no longer "free." By that time, you should either have HMGs (Choice of user), or shotguns. Giving shotties out sooner when you are fighting skulks is just a waste, although it could work as early base defense instead of a tfac and turrets. (As was said in a previous post). You would have to know the person to make sure they dont run out of the base and get slaughtered though... :/
<!--QuoteBegin--MILK+Nov 26 2002, 05:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MILK @ Nov 26 2002, 05:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->when we tryied shotgun against fade in umbra it took same damage as not in umbra so in skilled hands it is very powerful gun...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> well then I believe he was either not in umbra, or you got lucky. if shotgun was umbra-proof, yes it would be a good gun.
<!--QuoteBegin--Chron+Nov 26 2002, 01:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chron @ Nov 26 2002, 01:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if you have enough rs to give 3 people shotguns, then you could have build a rs node w/ turrets for that money. or upgraded to motion tracking, or built an arms lab and a upgrade, or researched heavy armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1. Snort, TF+2 turrets does not equal defense. I'd rather have a single NEWBIE shotgunner than only two turrets defending something. Those turrets ain't worth anything unless there's more than 4f them around.
2. What if you've already upgraded?
3. 50+20...nope, isn't equal or less than 60.
4. Which would presume you had the protype lab already.
Anyway, I fail to see the point which has to be somewhere in your post. Everything you give out as com takes money, those same things you said could be said about HA, jetpacks, HMG, welder, GL, turrets, etc...
The shotgun==pwn. I will tell you that the most irritating thing in any game is a fireteam of marines carrying HMGs... but one of them has a shottie. Unless you attack him as a skulk, you die. One lucky shot is all it takes.
As a marine, I LOVE the shotgun. The most successful I have ever been as a marine is with jetpack+armor upgrade lvl 3+weapon upgrade lvl 3. I got more kills than I do with HA/HMG. The shottie is also great in the early game, because of the catastrophic damage it does at short range. If you have one shottie guy on a team of 4 guys (the other guys have LMGs), that one shottie can easily keep the other guys alive for much longer than if the fourth guy also had an LMG.
And as for reload time... a HMG takes a SET amount of time to reload. If you fired 20 bullets, but want a full clip... it takes the same amount of time as if you emptied your clip. If you have a shotfun and have fired two shells, you only have to reload those two. Not to mention that you can halt the reload at any time and use what you have.
In short: I love the shotgun. I would rather have a shotgun/jetpack than HA/HMG/GL any day of the week.
This may have been said, (didnt read everything), but the Shotgun is really a weapon also if your feeling lucky. The odds that in close combat a marine will even be facing the right way are not particulary good, but even if they are partially its an easy kill. The reason I like it is because games are often fraught with boring times, where nothing is happening (building, camping, killing a stationary Turrent or TF), and in those few moments where battle errupts your adrenaline is running. It is in these few moments that determine life or death, it is in these few moments that you need to do your damage. The Shotgun gets it done....plus you feel strong as heck (darn lang filter).
<!--QuoteBegin--Chron+Nov 26 2002, 06:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chron @ Nov 26 2002, 06:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->point is, you never want to be 2 feet away from a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But a lot of the time you can't avoid it. Good skulks will find a way to get close. And as long as they're going to get close, I'd love to have a boomstick over the LMG. 1 shot as opposed to 1/4 a clip (more like 1/2 if you're trying to track them down or lead them - no leading with a shottie, it's point, click, kill).
I find it odd that EVERYONE in the forums LOVES the shotgun, and says they are awesome with it. Yet in games, I never see a single person whos decent with shotgun. '1-hit kill' this, 'tons of damage' that. If I can't kill a fade in 7 shots because he just keeps on backpeddaling and stays out of effective range, its a crappy gun. If I can't kill a lerk unless I'm right next to him because the hitbox is tiny, its a crappy gun. If I can walk up to an afk skulk and put 3 direct shots into him and he lives, its a crappy gun. If it takes 3 shots to kill a gorge because he backpedals, its a crappy gun. If you can't kill a skulk thats running away because it takes too long to pull pistol out and fire, its a crappy gun. If it sets your team back 20rs early game for 1 gun which is so incredibly specialized, its a crappy gun. We all have our success stories about that 1 time that we killed x number of y's with shotgun, but in all my games I have yet to see ANYONE rambo around the map killing everything, or taking a jetpack and do anything effective, or kill fades in 1 hit, or take out an Onos that was actually after YOU, and not shooting him in the side while hes killing turrets. I've killed more shotgun jetpackers as a skulk than have ever killed me in anything(which is zero, because no shotgun jetpacker has ever killed me.) "Hey, there is a guy jetpacking straight towards me!" *acid rocket acid rocket* *run around corner and wait* *acid rocket until he dies*. Oh ya, CLOSE ONE.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I find it odd that EVERYONE in the forums LOVES the shotgun, and says they are awesome with it. Yet in games, I never see a single person whos decent with shotgun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you know how many people play NS that don't visit the forum? Lots. So if it seems like the majority of people here are good with one, we're still definately the minority when it comes to the overall number of players.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->'1-hit kill' this, 'tons of damage' that. If I can't kill a fade in 7 shots because he just keeps on backpeddaling and stays out of effective range, its a crappy gun. If I can't kill a lerk unless I'm right next to him because the hitbox is tiny, its a crappy gun. If I can walk up to an afk skulk and put 3 direct shots into him and he lives, its a crappy gun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You had a point until the last line. If you can't take out an AFK skulk in one hit, you're doing something wrong. It's not the gun's fault. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We all have our success stories about that 1 time that we killed x number of y's with shotgun, but in all my games I have yet to see ANYONE rambo around the map killing everything, or taking a jetpack and do anything effective...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're not *supposed* to be able to Rambo with a shotgun. But you can if you know what you're doing. As for effective, you've never had anyone kill anything with a shotgun? IMHO, if it kills it, it's effective.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...or kill fades in 1 hit...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um, maybe I missed that post. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I've never heard anyone claim to do this. You can't.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...or take out an Onos that was actually after YOU...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Try playing with 'The Onos Hunter' sometime. He literally hunts them down with a shotgun. I've had to good fortune to play 2 games with him, and he took out 9 Onos between the two games. Most people can't do this, but damn!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've killed more shotgun jetpackers as a skulk than have ever killed me in anything(which is zero, because no shotgun jetpacker has ever killed me.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They must have been practicing with the jetpack/shotgun combo. It takes some time to get good at it. Once you're good though, it's tough to beat. Personally, I've never died when I've got a shotgun/jetpack.
When I got my pump-action barrel of death.. I wait for the skulk to come within 5 feet of my face. Pull the trigger, and then you got yourself a dead skulk with 18 holes in it's face.
Shogun is the BEST! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--JackPoT OwNeR+Nov 27 2002, 11:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JackPoT OwNeR @ Nov 27 2002, 11:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just out of curiousity...Does the skulk get more damage if the shotgun is shot like really close to him or does it have no affect at all?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, the gun is based on a hit scan. The farther the target is from the barrel, the more spread out the hit scan area is. So, if the Skulk it right next to you, and you fire, the entire hit scan area will hit it, causing the full 160 damage and equalling one dead skulk. The larger the hit scan area becomes, the less damage it does overall.
At least, I think this is how it works. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah that would make more sense in a non-convoluted kinda way. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
gee, thanks for that enlighting post. Shotguns are great, in that you get something that is almost as damageing as an HMG and you get it early game. Its expensive, but a very strong investment. And when upgraded late game its still great for taking out skulks, lerks and gorges. Hec, even fades only take 4 un-upgraded blasts to kill, 3 if its been upgraded. So it all depends, and the shotgun does not slow you down.
If someone has decent aim , the shotgun becomes a godly weapon.
shotgun DOES slow you down, just not as much as HMG. Do you NEED all that damage early game? Does that 3-4 blasts take into account lvl 3 carapce? lets ask Mr. Shatner...
5 more RS late game and you don't need to be within slash range of a fade to kill it very easily(hmg). So that must make hmg UBER-SUPER-DUPER-ULTRA GODLY.
You forget that the shotgun has spread, whereas a pistol doesn't.
Fast-moving aliens running in and out of cover can be difficult to hit at long range with the pistol. I try pistol sniping a lot, but nothing ever stays still long enough for me to unload all 10 rounds at once and ensure they each hit. Yes you can snipe; but is it worth hanging back and getting 1-2 hits every now and then? You *could* be going toe-to-toe with those fades or skulks with your LMG, which will help to assure they actually die and aren't just 'pecked' with a few bullets only to walk back to cover and heal.
Pistols also run out of ammo VERY fast. If you unload 10 rounds at a running/strafing target you've probably wasted the majority of those rounds. A shotgun is more regulated in it's rate of fire, plus it carries 20 more rounds than a pistol. It also has a good spread, so you don't have to have your crosshair directly on the target in order to ensure a hit. With a pistol I must have perfect aim or else it's perfect accuracy is nullified.
The shotgun can also be fired DURING its reload sequence. Run out of ammo, hit reload, wait to load 2 rounds and then fire. Very short.
For CQC encounters I'd definately want the shotgun. The pistol is a sidearm and it fills that role very well, I don't see too many folks trying to use it as a primary.
As for the light machine gun, I haven't seen too many commanders issue shotguns, so I can't really compare the two using practical experience. It seems most commanders I've played with ignore the shotguns and simply try to give everyone heavy armor/HMG.
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
u shoot a skulk with a shotgun when its 2 foot away and yeh its the same dammage but when there a fair bit off HMG owns all<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
point is, you never want to be 2 feet away from a skulk.
well then I believe he was either not in umbra, or you got lucky. if shotgun was umbra-proof, yes it would be a good gun.
1. Snort, TF+2 turrets does not equal defense. I'd rather have a single NEWBIE shotgunner than only two turrets defending something. Those turrets ain't worth anything unless there's more than 4f them around.
2. What if you've already upgraded?
3. 50+20...nope, isn't equal or less than 60.
4. Which would presume you had the protype lab already.
Anyway, I fail to see the point which has to be somewhere in your post. Everything you give out as com takes money, those same things you said could be said about HA, jetpacks, HMG, welder, GL, turrets, etc...
As a marine, I LOVE the shotgun. The most successful I have ever been as a marine is with jetpack+armor upgrade lvl 3+weapon upgrade lvl 3. I got more kills than I do with HA/HMG. The shottie is also great in the early game, because of the catastrophic damage it does at short range. If you have one shottie guy on a team of 4 guys (the other guys have LMGs), that one shottie can easily keep the other guys alive for much longer than if the fourth guy also had an LMG.
And as for reload time... a HMG takes a SET amount of time to reload. If you fired 20 bullets, but want a full clip... it takes the same amount of time as if you emptied your clip. If you have a shotfun and have fired two shells, you only have to reload those two. Not to mention that you can halt the reload at any time and use what you have.
In short: I love the shotgun. I would rather have a shotgun/jetpack than HA/HMG/GL any day of the week.
But a lot of the time you can't avoid it. Good skulks will find a way to get close. And as long as they're going to get close, I'd love to have a boomstick over the LMG. 1 shot as opposed to 1/4 a clip (more like 1/2 if you're trying to track them down or lead them - no leading with a shottie, it's point, click, kill).
'1-hit kill' this, 'tons of damage' that. If I can't kill a fade in 7 shots because he just keeps on backpeddaling and stays out of effective range, its a crappy gun. If I can't kill a lerk unless I'm right next to him because the hitbox is tiny, its a crappy gun. If I can walk up to an afk skulk and put 3 direct shots into him and he lives, its a crappy gun. If it takes 3 shots to kill a gorge because he backpedals, its a crappy gun. If you can't kill a skulk thats running away because it takes too long to pull pistol out and fire, its a crappy gun. If it sets your team back 20rs early game for 1 gun which is so incredibly specialized, its a crappy gun. We all have our success stories about that 1 time that we killed x number of y's with shotgun, but in all my games I have yet to see ANYONE rambo around the map killing everything, or taking a jetpack and do anything effective, or kill fades in 1 hit, or take out an Onos that was actually after YOU, and not shooting him in the side while hes killing turrets. I've killed more shotgun jetpackers as a skulk than have ever killed me in anything(which is zero, because no shotgun jetpacker has ever killed me.) "Hey, there is a guy jetpacking straight towards me!" *acid rocket acid rocket* *run around corner and wait* *acid rocket until he dies*. Oh ya, CLOSE ONE.
Do you know how many people play NS that don't visit the forum? Lots. So if it seems like the majority of people here are good with one, we're still definately the minority when it comes to the overall number of players.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->'1-hit kill' this, 'tons of damage' that. If I can't kill a fade in 7 shots because he just keeps on backpeddaling and stays out of effective range, its a crappy gun. If I can't kill a lerk unless I'm right next to him because the hitbox is tiny, its a crappy gun. If I can walk up to an afk skulk and put 3 direct shots into him and he lives, its a crappy gun.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You had a point until the last line. If you can't take out an AFK skulk in one hit, you're doing something wrong. It's not the gun's fault. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We all have our success stories about that 1 time that we killed x number of y's with shotgun, but in all my games I have yet to see ANYONE rambo around the map killing everything, or taking a jetpack and do anything effective...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not *supposed* to be able to Rambo with a shotgun. But you can if you know what you're doing. As for effective, you've never had anyone kill anything with a shotgun? IMHO, if it kills it, it's effective.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...or kill fades in 1 hit...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, maybe I missed that post. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I've never heard anyone claim to do this. You can't.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...or take out an Onos that was actually after YOU...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try playing with 'The Onos Hunter' sometime. He literally hunts them down with a shotgun. I've had to good fortune to play 2 games with him, and he took out 9 Onos between the two games. Most people can't do this, but damn!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've killed more shotgun jetpackers as a skulk than have ever killed me in anything(which is zero, because no shotgun jetpacker has ever killed me.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They must have been practicing with the jetpack/shotgun combo. It takes some time to get good at it. Once you're good though, it's tough to beat. Personally, I've never died when I've got a shotgun/jetpack.
Give your goodies to the good marines.
Then again, I always complain if a commander offers me heavy armor and / or a heavy machine gun.
Shotgun and a jet pack, is all I really ask for.
Well, the gun is based on a hit scan. The farther the target is from the barrel, the more spread out the hit scan area is. So, if the Skulk it right next to you, and you fire, the entire hit scan area will hit it, causing the full 160 damage and equalling one dead skulk. The larger the hit scan area becomes, the less damage it does overall.
At least, I think this is how it works. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's actually 16 hit scans, all at different angles, but yeah, everything else applies.
Should they use Shotguns Mr. Shatner?
If someone has decent aim , the shotgun becomes a godly weapon.
Do you NEED all that damage early game?
Does that 3-4 blasts take into account lvl 3 carapce?
lets ask Mr. Shatner...
5 more RS late game and you don't need to be within slash range of a fade to kill it very easily(hmg).
So that must make hmg UBER-SUPER-DUPER-ULTRA GODLY.
Fast-moving aliens running in and out of cover can be difficult to hit at long range with the pistol. I try pistol sniping a lot, but nothing ever stays still long enough for me to unload all 10 rounds at once and ensure they each hit. Yes you can snipe; but is it worth hanging back and getting 1-2 hits every now and then? You *could* be going toe-to-toe with those fades or skulks with your LMG, which will help to assure they actually die and aren't just 'pecked' with a few bullets only to walk back to cover and heal.
Pistols also run out of ammo VERY fast. If you unload 10 rounds at a running/strafing target you've probably wasted the majority of those rounds. A shotgun is more regulated in it's rate of fire, plus it carries 20 more rounds than a pistol. It also has a good spread, so you don't have to have your crosshair directly on the target in order to ensure a hit. With a pistol I must have perfect aim or else it's perfect accuracy is nullified.
The shotgun can also be fired DURING its reload sequence. Run out of ammo, hit reload, wait to load 2 rounds and then fire. Very short.
For CQC encounters I'd definately want the shotgun. The pistol is a sidearm and it fills that role very well, I don't see too many folks trying to use it as a primary.
As for the light machine gun, I haven't seen too many commanders issue shotguns, so I can't really compare the two using practical experience. It seems most commanders I've played with ignore the shotguns and simply try to give everyone heavy armor/HMG.