Rework Static Defenses
Underwhelmed
DemoDetective #?! Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
DemoDetective #?! Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
I'd like to see static defenses reworked so that they serve as a supplement to players, not the other way around. For example, in the early game, marines can drop a TF and a couple turrets in a room, leave it alone, and not have to worry about aliens taking that area, barring an Onos or coordinated alien rush (And we all know how rare those are). Or aliens can plop down some OCs in a room, and marines will be unable to move in unless they're well-equipped. The point is, static defenses as they currently are, reduce the dynamic and fluid nature of the game. Instead of teams quickly rushing a position while it is unoccupied and defenders scampering to hold it, you get these games where one team has already given up because the other team's control of the map is more or less unbreakable thanks to turrets and OCs.
Some might object and say that turrets and OCs give strategic depth to the game and encourage teamwork, since the attacking team is usually forced to coordinate a combined push if they want to take a fortified area, but consider the defending team - because the turrets/OCs are there, they do not have to apply the same effort the other team does. I would think that responding to an imminent attack and participating in the active defense of a position requires more teamwork and strategy than plopping down some structures and having them do all the work for you. Do we want a situation where one team is required to show a large amount of teamwork, while the other team only has to apply a minuscule amount to counter it? Because that is the current state of the game - you can have 4 skulks do a concerted rush on a turreted room and maybe deal a quarter of the damage necessary to kill a PG or TF before they all die, and that's without any marines showing up to defend it.
And of course resources spent to defend an area should confer some sort of advantage, but I hope I've convinced you that the "drop-automated-turrets-with-one-hundred-percent-accuracy-and-forget-about-it" method is not the way to go about it. I can think of plenty of improvements to the system NS currently has. For example, a player-controlled turret; without anybody to use it, it is useless. But if people show up to defend, it gives a large advantage. Or an area effect that drains the energy of all aliens nearby - something like that would severely impede a fade trying to blink around and kill marines. An interdiction field that slows down all alien movement, a large damage absorbing wall to hide behind, etc. Alien upgrade chambers already function similarly, although they're not really tweaked for the role. Anything that places the game back in the hands of a player, not an automated NPC.
Some might object and say that turrets and OCs give strategic depth to the game and encourage teamwork, since the attacking team is usually forced to coordinate a combined push if they want to take a fortified area, but consider the defending team - because the turrets/OCs are there, they do not have to apply the same effort the other team does. I would think that responding to an imminent attack and participating in the active defense of a position requires more teamwork and strategy than plopping down some structures and having them do all the work for you. Do we want a situation where one team is required to show a large amount of teamwork, while the other team only has to apply a minuscule amount to counter it? Because that is the current state of the game - you can have 4 skulks do a concerted rush on a turreted room and maybe deal a quarter of the damage necessary to kill a PG or TF before they all die, and that's without any marines showing up to defend it.
And of course resources spent to defend an area should confer some sort of advantage, but I hope I've convinced you that the "drop-automated-turrets-with-one-hundred-percent-accuracy-and-forget-about-it" method is not the way to go about it. I can think of plenty of improvements to the system NS currently has. For example, a player-controlled turret; without anybody to use it, it is useless. But if people show up to defend, it gives a large advantage. Or an area effect that drains the energy of all aliens nearby - something like that would severely impede a fade trying to blink around and kill marines. An interdiction field that slows down all alien movement, a large damage absorbing wall to hide behind, etc. Alien upgrade chambers already function similarly, although they're not really tweaked for the role. Anything that places the game back in the hands of a player, not an automated NPC.
Comments
For instance, on double in tanith, you could place one a few feet below the left vent and then, say, place another entity on the wall that you can see from that vent through the left "nostril" of the room. The second entity would be a point entity which would both serve as the target for the turret, and as a visual warning for skulks not to proceed (which keeps the sense of intuitive gameplay) so you wouldn't worry about that second entity getting destroyed - it's just for ease of use and to make sure that the turret does what you want despite wall slant, and of course, for the opposing team's experience as well.
Once the two points were defined the turret would defend a (say 20 degree?) arc around that point with somewhere between 1 and 3 second RoF and roughly 200-damage rounds, so lone skulks would basically be totally denied down one coridoor, but if they came in from the vent, they could kill the device effortlessly.
I think that would add a lot more strategy to the game - you might argue that it's a lot stronger than a standard turret, but I think if anything, it's actually weaker. It's very easy to kill, it just makes a room MUCH easier to hold.
You of course would have to playtest it for balance when both turrets were pointed at each other across both nodes horizontally, as that might be too strong. In any case, I like the idea of having a dynamically-placed turret at the end of a hallway that simply denies access for roaming node skulks coming in from one side of the room.
But if you made it so that a turret only attacked in an arc then the marines would have to manitain it, beacause
a skulk could go around the vents and attack from behind. It would add a certain element of strategy to the game.
If the aliens want a lot of OC's in a room...fine, whatever. But they won't have as many higher lifeforms, and the marines just need to take them down. It's not like they're moving or sporing...that's what players do :x.
Agreed. I wouldn't feel bad if regular turrets went away and OCs became some kind alien siege or something.
kinda like the auto-turrets in aliens.
and by spam, i mean. bullets fly everywhere, maybe not even hitting what its targetting.
this would be good, because turrets would be more effective against larger lifeforms and better against lesser ones than they previously were.
but na that sa bad idea
i like the arc idea.
the commander could just pick the turret, and give it a waypoint, and thatd be the centre of its arc , and it COULD be changed at any time.
which would mean the commander would have to pay attention, and if a turrets getting attacked from behind, hed have to spin turrets around.
comm stylez
If anything i would say make Alien defences stronger (cus the OC is really sad. I mean, 20 damage? I could kill rines faster has an adrin skulk using parasite. Come on!) and up the cost of all static defense items. They would drop less, but with more care to placement.
If anything i would say make Alien defences stronger (cus the OC is really sad. I mean, 20 damage? I could kill rines faster has an adrin skulk using parasite. Come on!) and up the cost of all static defense items. They would drop less, but with more care to placement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, actually, itd be cool if you wer in a team of marines, pushing to the hive. Then you saw an offence chamber, and you acutalyl had to go
"Oh ######, and OC, alright. should we detour around it? or try to kill it?"
At the moment, its pretty easy to just ignore an OC.
Make them cost 20 resource, and do 65 damage, with MORE health!
"Oh ######, and OC, alright. should we detour around it? or try to kill it?"
At the moment, its pretty easy to just ignore an OC.
Make them cost 20 resource, and do 65 damage, with MORE health!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you do realize that a vanilla marine has 100 hp 30 ap and we're talking about the game natural selection right?
I was focusing on making turrets a powerful <i>suppliment</i> to the team, requiring <i>work</i> from them to be effective (increasing the level of skill required to use static defenses effectively) - Would a turret like the one I described not accomplish the goal of enjoyability?
yus i do.
thanks for the intel though.
thats a F**KING great idea <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> - the structure is protected but it still leaves all of the fighting up to the marines to sort out which means it doesn't take away any player to player interaction.
Of course this would have to only take effect after the structure has been bitten once or twice - as if it was an area of effect style ability then marines could just build TF's next to res points and farm everything up.