At least you don't want to become us. There are plenty across the pond that fatansize about the rise of a European superpower able to become a counterweight to American power on the international stage. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have the strangest notions I've ever heard. Hypothetically, if someone calls you something you're not, you don't give a damn you just laugh but if someone says something to you that really hits a nerve you will get very defensive, thats insecurity. America is a great country, but I find people who use every excuse to try and promote its greatness are more than a tad arrogant, insecure and kinda annoying.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1639143:date=Jul 16 2007, 12:18 PM:name=Rapier7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rapier7 @ Jul 16 2007, 12:18 PM) [snapback]1639143[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The term is white guilt. It's a self defense mechanism that gainfully employed white people use to justify their elevated socioeconomic status. It's also richly hypocritical.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In a similar vein, not many things irk me faster or more deeply than <insert minority here> expecting guilt (and the trappings thereof) for events that I had nothing to do with, and was not even around to be vocal against.
Random factoid: Near where I used to live in South Manchester, there's a 'Czech Womens Club', advertised on a large sign outside. Now, were I to form a White Male Club' and advertise in a similar way I wonder how long it'd last before being letterbombed?
On American Culture: A great number of people I consider aquaintances or of interest are Americans. I just loathe your government. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited July 2007
it isn't being picky. There is an absolutely huge difference between the two examples you cited. Not that either of them deserve to be letter bombed, but if you fail to see the difference between the two examples you cited then we're wasting our time discussing it. Can you also cite examples of white male clubs that have been bombed?
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited July 2007
Of course I can tell the difference, but I could either spend time constructing an argument over it, or we could just agree that I got it wrong there and not worry about it further.
As for examples, I'm not saying there has been. However, considering we've seen bombings of Islamic businesses in Glasgow in the wake of recent events, I'm fairly confident in saying there are people out there moronic enough to perform these acts, and make jumps in logic like what I was getting at. Grouping based on nationality, religion, creed, whatever, doesn't matter, stupidity seems to be endemic to people in general.
My point was that we agree, neither of them deserve to be bombed, but I'd be willing to bet one of them would end up with a higher insurance premium for the risk.
(Edit: Woefully off topic here I'd guess, but then, discussions tend to do that.)
<!--quoteo(post=1639163:date=Jul 16 2007, 09:29 AM:name=Timmythemoonpig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Timmythemoonpig @ Jul 16 2007, 09:29 AM) [snapback]1639163[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You have the strangest notions I've ever heard. Hypothetically, if someone calls you something you're not, you don't give a damn you just laugh but if someone says something to you that really hits a nerve you will get very defensive, thats insecurity. America is a great country, but I find people who use every excuse to try and promote its greatness are more than a tad arrogant, insecure and kinda annoying.
When was the last time I started a topic praising the USA saying that we're the best damn country in the world (which we are) and that we're never to blame?
If you've noticed, I've given my opinions in response to people who go into anti-American rants or unjustly criticize (the same thing, in my book) American foreign policy or even ridicule American domestic policy and culture.
<!--quoteo(post=1638585:date=Jul 12 2007, 05:28 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Jul 12 2007, 05:28 AM) [snapback]1638585[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Open and talkative with strangers in a way that's very foreign to Swedes. Actually from what I've experienced "Americans" can sit down and talk with you as though you were his or her best friend, then they forget all about you when they turn the corner.
The dating culture is weird. I mean it seems you get a girl- or boyfriend after having "dated" for X times, and every date should follow some sort of code. Huh? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've noticed the<b> exact</b> same things, but I like Americans overall (having American cousins helps too). But to be honest, the majority of people here look at American culture just like how it's depicted in that "Clashes of the Civilizations" video.
<!--quoteo(post=1639215:date=Jul 16 2007, 10:10 PM:name=Rapier7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rapier7 @ Jul 16 2007, 10:10 PM) [snapback]1639215[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> When was the last time I started a topic praising the USA saying that we're the best damn country in the world (which we are)[...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> EEEEEEEEEEEEE*CRASH*
What a bummer. Clearly, Denmark is the best damn country in the world. Or maybe Germany, depends on where I am at the moment.
<!--quoteo(post=1639215:date=Jul 16 2007, 03:10 PM:name=Rapier7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rapier7 @ Jul 16 2007, 03:10 PM) [snapback]1639215[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> When was the last time I started a topic praising the USA saying that we're the best damn country in the world (which we are) and that we're never to blame?
If you've noticed, I've given my opinions in response to people who go into anti-American rants or unjustly criticize (the same thing, in my book) American foreign policy or even ridicule American domestic policy and culture. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you had said France was the best damn country in the world I would have responded in the same way, likewise if you would have said the same about Russia (ps I am not anti-French or anti-Russian). Although if you would've said Norway that would be a bit trickier.
If the phrase had any logic or weight to it then it would be used around the world for all countries, but it isn't. Its just a stupid patriotic rally round the flag phrase used to deflect criticism.
<!--quoteo(post=1639215:date=Jul 16 2007, 03:10 PM:name=Rapier7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rapier7 @ Jul 16 2007, 03:10 PM) [snapback]1639215[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> When was the last time I started a topic praising the USA saying that we're the best damn country in the world (which we are) and that we're never to blame? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i wonder if there are any americans who would disagree with you =)
<!--quoteo(post=1639706:date=Jul 19 2007, 05:37 PM:name=TOmekki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TOmekki @ Jul 19 2007, 05:37 PM) [snapback]1639706[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i wonder if there are any americans who would disagree with you =) <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm an American and I can't see how it's possible to put intrinsic value scores on countries. We need categories if we want to compare countries. military power? quality of life? marshmallow consumption?
I wonder if there are any non-Americans who don't negatively generalize Americans.
<!--quoteo(post=1639851:date=Jul 20 2007, 06:41 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Jul 20 2007, 06:41 PM) [snapback]1639851[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'm an American and I can't see how it's possible to put intrinsic value scores on countries.[...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The process you're looking for is called nationalism. It is a very simple process. It can answer two basic questions: Which nation is the greatest of all, and which nations are not. The answer to the former question is "the one I live in," and the answer to the latter is "the rest." "Nationalism" is one letter apart from "rationalism," but that's as far as the similarities go. It is an inherently irrational process. It is also the most widely employed when, as you say it, putting intrinsic value scores on countries. It's the easiest, the most straightforward, the most common and the most wrong way of doing it. I could think up a lot of far more rational methods. They would be a lot more accurate, a lot more fair, and just like nationalism their results would be worthless in a wide context.
<!--quoteo(post=1639851:date=Jul 20 2007, 05:41 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Jul 20 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]1639851[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'm an American and I can't see how it's possible to put intrinsic value scores on countries. We need categories if we want to compare countries. military power? quality of life? marshmallow consumption?
I wonder if there are any non-Americans who don't negatively generalize Americans. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
America see's itself as #1 country in the world because of it's military power. However I heard Gordon Brown ramble in one of his speeches a week or two ago how there will be a new "table" in which nations won't be judged as powerful based on their military, technological or financial status but on how powerful a nation is with helping with 'real' issues like poverty, global warming; basically shifting the definition of power from "destroyer" to "helper". I can't find any articles on this but that was the main basis of his speech, maybe someone can dig it up from BBC news or something.
Speeches like that are for former great powers who want to use measures other than economic, military, political, and cultural strength, the traditional gauges of international power and prestige, to feel better about themselves. And if you seriously think that Americans think our state is the greatest because of our military strength, it just shows how shockingly ignorant you are of the <b>average American</b> and <b>American culture</b>.
On a semantical argument, you can say there is no such thing as the greatest state in the world, however...we can measure strength.
Who's the strongest military power? USA Who's the strongest economic power? USA Who's the strongest cultural power? USA As a result of these three factors, who's the most influential state in the world? USA
Considering the extraordinary power the USA has, we have been the <b>most magnanimous</b> superpower in history. Our power and our widely admired and emulated culture didn't rise out of accident. Numerous social, economic, geographic, intellectual factors have created a state of extreme affluence and charity (Americans give more per capita to charities than any foreign citizen).
A great deal of American culture comes from the <b>rule of law and community</b>. The American government is incredibly stingy when it comes to foreign aid. The American citizen is not. Our reliance on government is grudging and barely tolerated while other developed states have become dangerously dependent on their highly centralized governments.
Americans see themselves as superior, although they'd never use that term. Americans see their state as the greatest state in the world, though they'd never admit it. Does it affect you? Of course it does. It breeds resentment and an over-compensated inferiority complex among allied states, mistrust and suspicion among rising states, and outright hostility and enmity among <b>failed states</b>. See the pattern here?
Edit:
There's one last thing I'd like to add. Nationalism exists in every nation. However, it seems a lot of nationalism is derived from jeering and criticizing the USA. An example is right next door - Canada. Americans derive their nationalism from the greatness of our nation. Apparently other states derive their nationalism from the greatness of the USA as well, albeit differently.
"Do YOU consider yourself a <b>failed state?</b> Well, you must be, since you oppose us!" Tell me I got that completely wrong, because I hope I did.
Also, you're flip-flopping. One post you say that you're "the best damn country in the world," then you say you'd never admit it.
I'll readily agree that the U.S. is the mightiest nation in the world today. Might is not right anyway.
Most magnanimous? Americans give more per capita to charities than any [non-U.S.] citizen? I did not know that. But I guess I can take your word for it.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Lets try to get this back down to an individual level a little bit. Here's a hypothesis.
I think it's to some extent a uniquely American characteristic to value having the freedom to fail.
It's certainly an uniquely western value, but whether it's distinctly American I'm mostly guessing. I think it ties in a bit with our laissez faire attitudes in general. Whenever I interact with people from elsewhere in the world, I'm always struck by how concerned they are with being prudent. People's parents here as often as not encourage their children to go take risks and sink or swim on their own. People here value having the freedom to be young and stupid, and the periodic greatness that arises from that.
<!--quoteo(post=1639884:date=Jul 20 2007, 02:58 PM:name=moultano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moultano @ Jul 20 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]1639884[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Lets try to get this back down to an individual level a little bit. Here's a hypothesis.
I think it's to some extent a uniquely American characteristic to value having the freedom to fail.
It's certainly an uniquely western value, but whether it's distinctly American I'm mostly guessing. I think it ties in a bit with our laissez faire attitudes in general. Whenever I interact with people from elsewhere in the world, I'm always struck by how concerned they are with being prudent. People's parents here as often as not encourage their children to go take risks and sink or swim on their own. People here value having the freedom to be young and stupid, and the periodic greatness that arises from that. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The native Americans had a similar philosophy with their children. Instead of saying 'no don't touch the fire' they would let their kids find out the hard way.
Its strange in Europe how the nanny-state system doesn't work, for instance, in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales there are so many laws and restictions, yet we have extremely high levels of alcohol related abuse, violence, etc. Yet in countries like Spain, Belgium, Italy, the laws are much more lax, pubs, bars open later, relaxed drugs laws, etc and there are much lower levels of alcohol abuse and violence.
Much lower levels of REPORTED incidents, and a different attitude towards what is ok and what's not.
It's like violence and murders in Sweden. Statistics show those crimes haven't gone up noticably per capita the last fifty years, but incidents reported have shot up and the tolerance level of violence related crimes is much lower. Newspapers report crimes much more and there is generally a much more moralising attitude. BUT CRIMES ARENT ACTUALLY UP.
Edit: as a sidenote, I think it would be safer if we stopped using terms like "laissez-faire" and "nanny state" before this topic goes to hell.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1639996:date=Jul 21 2007, 07:35 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Jul 21 2007, 07:35 AM) [snapback]1639996[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Edit: as a sidenote, I think it would be safer if we stopped using terms like "laissez-faire" and "nanny state" before this topic goes to hell. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> "nanny state" sure, but what's wrong with "laissez-faire?" I've heard it used just as often with a negative connotation as a positive one.
<!--quoteo(post=1640016:date=Jul 21 2007, 10:14 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jul 21 2007, 10:14 AM) [snapback]1640016[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Imperialism may well rival nationalism in that regard. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> then i suppose its not a good thing both are abundant in american politics and attitudes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1639862:date=Jul 20 2007, 01:03 PM:name=Rapier7)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rapier7 @ Jul 20 2007, 01:03 PM) [snapback]1639862[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There's one last thing I'd like to add. Nationalism exists in every nation. However, it seems a lot of nationalism is derived from jeering and criticizing the USA. An example is right next door - Canada. Americans derive their nationalism from the greatness of our nation. Apparently other states derive their nationalism from the greatness of the USA as well, albeit differently. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Using Canada as an example is a little unfair... Canadians have alot of reasons to identify their culture through American culture, IE, to identify our culture as how we are different from Americans. Canada is a smaller, weaker, poorer nation, that was founded after America, and looks very similar in terms of political structure and law making, and is geographically closer to the USA than anywhere else in the world.
In alot of ways the world kind of expects us to just be American, the most sensical way for us to really have our own identity is to just say "no, we're not, this is how we're different". Our self perception of our culture defined through it's divergence with American standard is pervasive even into our education system. A massive portion of my middle school social studies education I recall being focused on how Americans do something, and then how Canadians do it differently, as odd as that sounds.
In terms of culture of it's own powers, Canada is just a young nation, with a reasonably dry self sustained history, that primarily populates itself through foreign immigration. We don't really have a whole lot to latch onto culturally. So it's fairly predictable that our nation would take the culturally dominate American culture and spin it in an effort to define ourself culturally.
Comments
At least you don't want to become us. There are plenty across the pond that fatansize about the rise of a European superpower able to become a counterweight to American power on the international stage.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have the strangest notions I've ever heard. Hypothetically, if someone calls you something you're not, you don't give a damn you just laugh but if someone says something to you that really hits a nerve you will get very defensive, thats insecurity. America is a great country, but I find people who use every excuse to try and promote its greatness are more than a tad arrogant, insecure and kinda annoying.
Heres a page for the ultra-nationalistic..
<a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/" target="_blank">http://www.worldnetdaily.com/</a>
The term is white guilt. It's a self defense mechanism that gainfully employed white people use to justify their elevated socioeconomic status. It's also richly hypocritical.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a similar vein, not many things irk me faster or more deeply than <insert minority here> expecting guilt (and the trappings thereof) for events that I had nothing to do with, and was not even around to be vocal against.
Random factoid: Near where I used to live in South Manchester, there's a 'Czech Womens Club', advertised on a large sign outside. Now, were I to form a White Male Club' and advertise in a similar way I wonder how long it'd last before being letterbombed?
On American Culture: A great number of people I consider aquaintances or of interest are Americans. I just loathe your government. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
- Shockwave
As for examples, I'm not saying there has been. However, considering we've seen bombings of Islamic businesses in Glasgow in the wake of recent events, I'm fairly confident in saying there are people out there moronic enough to perform these acts, and make jumps in logic like what I was getting at. Grouping based on nationality, religion, creed, whatever, doesn't matter, stupidity seems to be endemic to people in general.
My point was that we agree, neither of them deserve to be bombed, but I'd be willing to bet one of them would end up with a higher insurance premium for the risk.
(Edit: Woefully off topic here I'd guess, but then, discussions tend to do that.)
You have the strangest notions I've ever heard. Hypothetically, if someone calls you something you're not, you don't give a damn you just laugh but if someone says something to you that really hits a nerve you will get very defensive, thats insecurity. America is a great country, but I find people who use every excuse to try and promote its greatness are more than a tad arrogant, insecure and kinda annoying.
Heres a page for the ultra-nationalistic..
<a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/" target="_blank">http://www.worldnetdaily.com/</a>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When was the last time I started a topic praising the USA saying that we're the best damn country in the world (which we are) and that we're never to blame?
If you've noticed, I've given my opinions in response to people who go into anti-American rants or unjustly criticize (the same thing, in my book) American foreign policy or even ridicule American domestic policy and culture.
Open and talkative with strangers in a way that's very foreign to Swedes. Actually from what I've experienced "Americans" can sit down and talk with you as though you were his or her best friend, then they forget all about you when they turn the corner.
The dating culture is weird. I mean it seems you get a girl- or boyfriend after having "dated" for X times, and every date should follow some sort of code. Huh?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've noticed the<b> exact</b> same things, but I like Americans overall (having American cousins helps too). But to be honest, the majority of people here look at American culture just like how it's depicted in that "Clashes of the Civilizations" video.
When was the last time I started a topic praising the USA saying that we're the best damn country in the world (which we are)[...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
EEEEEEEEEEEEE*CRASH*
What a bummer. Clearly, Denmark is the best damn country in the world. Or maybe Germany, depends on where I am at the moment.
When was the last time I started a topic praising the USA saying that we're the best damn country in the world (which we are) and that we're never to blame?
If you've noticed, I've given my opinions in response to people who go into anti-American rants or unjustly criticize (the same thing, in my book) American foreign policy or even ridicule American domestic policy and culture.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you had said France was the best damn country in the world I would have responded in the same way, likewise if you would have said the same about Russia (ps I am not anti-French or anti-Russian). Although if you would've said Norway that would be a bit trickier.
If the phrase had any logic or weight to it then it would be used around the world for all countries, but it isn't. Its just a stupid patriotic rally round the flag phrase used to deflect criticism.
When was the last time I started a topic praising the USA saying that we're the best damn country in the world (which we are) and that we're never to blame?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i wonder if there are any americans who would disagree with you =)
i wonder if there are any americans who would disagree with you =)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm an American and I can't see how it's possible to put intrinsic value scores on countries. We need categories if we want to compare countries. military power? quality of life? marshmallow consumption?
I wonder if there are any non-Americans who don't negatively generalize Americans.
I'm an American and I can't see how it's possible to put intrinsic value scores on countries.[...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The process you're looking for is called nationalism. It is a very simple process. It can answer two basic questions: Which nation is the greatest of all, and which nations are not. The answer to the former question is "the one I live in," and the answer to the latter is "the rest."
"Nationalism" is one letter apart from "rationalism," but that's as far as the similarities go. It is an inherently irrational process. It is also the most widely employed when, as you say it, putting intrinsic value scores on countries. It's the easiest, the most straightforward, the most common and the most wrong way of doing it.
I could think up a lot of far more rational methods. They would be a lot more accurate, a lot more fair, and just like nationalism their results would be worthless in a wide context.
I'm an American and I can't see how it's possible to put intrinsic value scores on countries. We need categories if we want to compare countries. military power? quality of life? marshmallow consumption?
I wonder if there are any non-Americans who don't negatively generalize Americans.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
America see's itself as #1 country in the world because of it's military power. However I heard Gordon Brown ramble in one of his speeches a week or two ago how there will be a new "table" in which nations won't be judged as powerful based on their military, technological or financial status but on how powerful a nation is with helping with 'real' issues like poverty, global warming; basically shifting the definition of power from "destroyer" to "helper". I can't find any articles on this but that was the main basis of his speech, maybe someone can dig it up from BBC news or something.
On a semantical argument, you can say there is no such thing as the greatest state in the world, however...we can measure strength.
Who's the strongest military power? USA
Who's the strongest economic power? USA
Who's the strongest cultural power? USA
As a result of these three factors, who's the most influential state in the world? USA
Considering the extraordinary power the USA has, we have been the <b>most magnanimous</b> superpower in history. Our power and our widely admired and emulated culture didn't rise out of accident. Numerous social, economic, geographic, intellectual factors have created a state of extreme affluence and charity (Americans give more per capita to charities than any foreign citizen).
A great deal of American culture comes from the <b>rule of law and community</b>. The American government is incredibly stingy when it comes to foreign aid. The American citizen is not. Our reliance on government is grudging and barely tolerated while other developed states have become dangerously dependent on their highly centralized governments.
Americans see themselves as superior, although they'd never use that term. Americans see their state as the greatest state in the world, though they'd never admit it. Does it affect you? Of course it does. It breeds resentment and an over-compensated inferiority complex among allied states, mistrust and suspicion among rising states, and outright hostility and enmity among <b>failed states</b>. See the pattern here?
Edit:
There's one last thing I'd like to add. Nationalism exists in every nation. However, it seems a lot of nationalism is derived from jeering and criticizing the USA. An example is right next door - Canada. Americans derive their nationalism from the greatness of our nation. Apparently other states derive their nationalism from the greatness of the USA as well, albeit differently.
Tell me I got that completely wrong, because I hope I did.
Also, you're flip-flopping. One post you say that you're "the best damn country in the world," then you say you'd never admit it.
I'll readily agree that the U.S. is the mightiest nation in the world today. Might is not right anyway.
Most magnanimous? Americans give more per capita to charities than any [non-U.S.] citizen? I did not know that. But I guess I can take your word for it.
Here's a hypothesis.
I think it's to some extent a uniquely American characteristic to value having the freedom to fail.
It's certainly an uniquely western value, but whether it's distinctly American I'm mostly guessing. I think it ties in a bit with our laissez faire attitudes in general. Whenever I interact with people from elsewhere in the world, I'm always struck by how concerned they are with being prudent. People's parents here as often as not encourage their children to go take risks and sink or swim on their own. People here value having the freedom to be young and stupid, and the periodic greatness that arises from that.
Lets try to get this back down to an individual level a little bit.
Here's a hypothesis.
I think it's to some extent a uniquely American characteristic to value having the freedom to fail.
It's certainly an uniquely western value, but whether it's distinctly American I'm mostly guessing. I think it ties in a bit with our laissez faire attitudes in general. Whenever I interact with people from elsewhere in the world, I'm always struck by how concerned they are with being prudent. People's parents here as often as not encourage their children to go take risks and sink or swim on their own. People here value having the freedom to be young and stupid, and the periodic greatness that arises from that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The native Americans had a similar philosophy with their children. Instead of saying 'no don't touch the fire' they would let their kids find out the hard way.
Its strange in Europe how the nanny-state system doesn't work, for instance, in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales there are so many laws and restictions, yet we have extremely high levels of alcohol related abuse, violence, etc. Yet in countries like Spain, Belgium, Italy, the laws are much more lax, pubs, bars open later, relaxed drugs laws, etc and there are much lower levels of alcohol abuse and violence.
It's like violence and murders in Sweden. Statistics show those crimes haven't gone up noticably per capita the last fifty years, but incidents reported have shot up and the tolerance level of violence related crimes is much lower. Newspapers report crimes much more and there is generally a much more moralising attitude. BUT CRIMES ARENT ACTUALLY UP.
Edit: as a sidenote, I think it would be safer if we stopped using terms like "laissez-faire" and "nanny state" before this topic goes to hell.
i wouldnt draw self confidence from the greatness of my country if the greatest thing it ever achieved was drop millions and millions of bombs
Edit: as a sidenote, I think it would be safer if we stopped using terms like "laissez-faire" and "nanny state" before this topic goes to hell.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"nanny state" sure, but what's wrong with "laissez-faire?" I've heard it used just as often with a negative connotation as a positive one.
Imperialism may well rival nationalism in that regard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
then i suppose its not a good thing both are abundant in american politics and attitudes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
There's one last thing I'd like to add. Nationalism exists in every nation. However, it seems a lot of nationalism is derived from jeering and criticizing the USA. An example is right next door - Canada. Americans derive their nationalism from the greatness of our nation. Apparently other states derive their nationalism from the greatness of the USA as well, albeit differently.
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Using Canada as an example is a little unfair... Canadians have alot of reasons to identify their culture through American culture, IE, to identify our culture as how we are different from Americans. Canada is a smaller, weaker, poorer nation, that was founded after America, and looks very similar in terms of political structure and law making, and is geographically closer to the USA than anywhere else in the world.
In alot of ways the world kind of expects us to just be American, the most sensical way for us to really have our own identity is to just say "no, we're not, this is how we're different". Our self perception of our culture defined through it's divergence with American standard is pervasive even into our education system. A massive portion of my middle school social studies education I recall being focused on how Americans do something, and then how Canadians do it differently, as odd as that sounds.
In terms of culture of it's own powers, Canada is just a young nation, with a reasonably dry self sustained history, that primarily populates itself through foreign immigration. We don't really have a whole lot to latch onto culturally. So it's fairly predictable that our nation would take the culturally dominate American culture and spin it in an effort to define ourself culturally.