Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
6/10 against, 4/10 with
The fact still stands that the worst players are almost always left out on the bad team - usually aliens. And unless you can play intelligently, unlike most of the players in pubs, you won't make any difference when there are any decent players on the same team.
That was a case of decent players joining whatever team the 'good' player joined. It just happened that there were 6 people following me around. Just more proof that the 'good' players aren't the cause of the stacking.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1637991:date=Jul 8 2007, 11:59 PM:name=Golden)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Golden @ Jul 8 2007, 11:59 PM) [snapback]1637991[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> That was a case of decent players joining whatever team the 'good' player joined. It just happened that there were 6 people following me around. Just more proof that the 'good' players aren't the cause of the stacking. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do realize that's a complete contradiction of terms?
'good' player joins and plays 'good' 'decent' players follow the 'good player' therefore the 'good' player is causing the stacking, because the 'decent' players stack whatever team he plays on
Smood, I would love nothing more then to be able to play in a 6v6 server with my marine-stacking buddies, but none exist. Scrims are basically non-existant. And half the American teams you can scrim nowadays are full of hackers.
I would also love it if every server was full of good players so that me joining a team didn't stack it. But that isn't how it is.
When I first started playing I got rolled by good players as well. I walked down a long hallway at Romano and he 10 bulleted me. So I said "hmm, that doesn't work". So I NEVER DID IT AGAIN. I started trying to ambush. And it worked. It's not my ###### fault if pubbers can't learn from their mistakes and never improve their game like I did.
<!--quoteo(post=1637793:date=Jul 7 2007, 01:01 PM:name=F4tManMGS2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F4tManMGS2 @ Jul 7 2007, 01:01 PM) [snapback]1637793[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Nearly every pub I've ever played at has stacking (excluding TGNS because of the auto-randomizxer, but that's a different story). <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I laughed at this, because admins are unaffected by this plugin and most of the time that I've seen the admins stack....not that it is much of a stack but its funny to watch.
<!--quoteo(post=1638043:date=Jul 9 2007, 05:21 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Jul 9 2007, 05:21 AM) [snapback]1638043[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Indeed, but I believe he was talking about intent or somesuch. The good player really can't affect this other than choosing not to play at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1638106:date=Jul 9 2007, 05:50 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Jul 9 2007, 05:50 PM) [snapback]1638106[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Or you can join after everyone else joins. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> or just not give a ###### what every noob on the server cares or cries about
<!--quoteo(post=1638129:date=Jul 9 2007, 06:48 PM:name=TOmekki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TOmekki @ Jul 9 2007, 06:48 PM) [snapback]1638129[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> or just not give a ###### what every noob on the server cares or cries about <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
qft
who cares what team people go? I only go marines on every server regardless of who is stacking what team because aliens are ###### boring on pubs and playing aliens on pub servers with mp_bs1 with a computer 2x worse than enigma's pc is ###### terrible and headache inducing.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
Like I said, playing with worthless team-mates is not fun, and any player with half a brain can figure this out and pick the right team to stack. Call it "anecdotal evidence", but that's what happens in pubs. When there are enough decent players or a lack thereof, the teams get semi-balanced. More often than not, it is more fun to stack since the magic number isn't reached.
ChocolateThe Team MascotJoin Date: 2006-10-31Member: 58123Members
edited July 2007
Ok, here's my two cents from the long discussion about smood and stacking:
First off, I respect smood for being bold enough to stand by what he believes. Most people don't have the guts to do something like that.
As for the content, I think what smood agues (at least one part of it) is true; it should be the responsibility of the good players to join the non stacked team, and kind of vise versa for the bad players (though I don't expect it because they are... bad). It should also be the responsibility of EVERY player to not make dumb comments like "Alienz play betar!" but rather give things like "GG, try not to stack next time" or no comment at all.
There can be times where "ok, I want to join my 2 friends in marine games tonight" and the teams are stacked to some extent, I'm perfectly fine with that. Though it should be the responsibility of the solo good players or the other group of good players to join the opposite team. The good players should have the choice to whatever he so chooses but he/she should try to make an effort for balance.
Problem is that the world ain't perfect. The favourable conditions I stated in the first major paragraph happen about +/-50% of the time on the servers I play on. Thing is there will always be doorknob idiots that run into straight lines that join the unstacked team unknowingly which makes the stack worse. There will always be the superb/average players who will only join marines/the stacked team only to win all the time. There will always be 10 year old kids who rant about how the other team sucks and make rude comments about everything done incorrectly (hey, I'm an exception <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />). That's life, you gotta live with it.
As for solutions; There is nothing feasible right now that we can do to stop stacking and other problems like that. We could random everyone all the time, but honestly everyone will hate it, no matter if balance is achieved 99% of the time. We could give some handycap to the unstacked team, but that would bring up the issue of calucating skill and distributing handicap properly. We could try a MatchMaking system like in Halo 2, but that still wont even the teams (if not make it worse?).
The only solution I see possible is to change the community's attitude. We need to teach those dumb players who always stack to grow up. We need to teach the straight line skulk fans to ambush and take cover once and awhile. It's really the only way to actually get any progress with balance.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Treat the Root Problem, not the Symptom <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ending this long thought, consider the quote above. We could make the most sophisticated balancing device ever, but that is only treating the "Symptom". That treatment of the Symptom can only cause more problems latter on (in this case I see hacking of the balancing system, incorrect balances, really unhappy players etc.). The real solution is fixing the Root Problem, which is the community. Fixing that would solve most of the balance issues we have today, while causing many improvements to the enjoyment of the game (no more "Yo nub, learn to aim").
Now the only problem is is that fixing the Root Problem, which is MUCH harder to do than fixing the Symptoms; and to me is currently impossible without any major commitment.
Just my two res, I don't care if I'm right or wrong it's just my point of view. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
The only solution I see possible is to change the community's attitude. We need to teach those dumb players who always stack to grow up. We need to teach the straight line skulk fans to ambush and take cover once and awhile. It's really the only way to actually get any progress with balance. ... Now the only problem is is that fixing the Root Problem, which is MUCH harder to do than fixing the Symptoms; and to me is currently impossible without any major commitment.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, but those dumb players don't want to learn. It's sad but true. they will always keep running at you in straight lines while calling you "###### aim scripter hacker" and generally go hide in their bubbled world getting high-fives from their other "GORGIE POWA OC POWA" buddies that they play with and mic spam 24/7 on that server.
people have tried to make major commitments to improving people, just most people don't want to get better and that is why ns is dead/dying (say what you will, it's true).
<!--quoteo(post=1638135:date=Jul 9 2007, 09:36 PM:name=Chocolate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chocolate @ Jul 9 2007, 09:36 PM) [snapback]1638135[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> First off, I respect smood for being bold enough to stand by what he believes. Most people don't have the guts to do something like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> this is the internet for crying out loud
ChocolateThe Team MascotJoin Date: 2006-10-31Member: 58123Members
edited July 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1638136:date=Jul 9 2007, 10:42 PM:name=coolstory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(coolstory @ Jul 9 2007, 10:42 PM) [snapback]1638136[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Sorry, but those dumb players don't want to learn. It's sad but true. they will always keep running at you in straight lines while calling you "###### aim scripter hacker" and generally go hide in their bubbled world getting high-fives from their other "GORGIE POWA OC POWA" buddies that they play with and mic spam 24/7 on that server.
people have tried to make major commitments to improving people, just most people don't want to get better and that is why ns is dead/dying (say what you will, it's true). <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, thats why my last line says that it is hard to get people to learn. I guess it's something that'll have to wait until a major influx of new players (aka. NS2). Then the dumb players might see everyone around him getting better and learning and might get inspired to do the same <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />.
It's true, I know NS is dying part because of oldness/changes and part because of the community. I certainly know that if I hadn't found the TG server I probably would have stopped playing this game a few times within the past few months.
<!--quoteo(post=1638137:date=Jul 9 2007, 10:44 PM:name=TOmekki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TOmekki @ Jul 9 2007, 10:44 PM) [snapback]1638137[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> this is the internet for crying out loud <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Still, he's getting bashed up verbally (more like textually <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) as much as a punching bag in a gym and he continues to do his thing, you gotta give him some kudos for that. Even if what he's arguing might be less than correct sometimes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
edited July 2007
If you want to fix stacking, just admin-abuse the players that do it until they cry about it and leave. Most server operators allow stacking to happen, especially because they play with it. If you show the 'good' players that their idea of a fun time is unwanted, they'll leave and go back to WoW. And since the working servers can usually be counted on the fingers of one hand, it shouldn't be too hard to coordinate something along these lines and get rid of the people that cause problems. Then everybody can enjoy playing terribly in peace.
Thanks for a post that does not include witty sarcasm as the main point, Chocolate.
I believe what you say is true; the only feasible way to get better games is just better attitude.
Bad players should play better. If they can't aim or fade well, okay, but things like running into the same area and dying has to be changed. Good players however can stack less and stop with the condescending remarks.
Randoming would be a way to force players on teams... but I guess people want choice.
I post what I post because I know that it's what the pub ns players say. They are the people who make the majority, yet fail to make an account here and speak up. And when they do, they are barraged in insults and sarcasm and of course leave. And the people I do talk to are usually the people who play NS seriously, most of which are the comp/clanners.
A Halo 2 matching system would be great, but if it's not already in CS:S, I doubt NS2 would carry it.
So yea, stacking is a hole in this great game. But it's a reference to the community itself, which is divided. Well that's it I guess. Nothing more to say than just, don't stack and don't insult. But it's your choice.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
If there was a half-decent competitive scene, the competitive players would be scrimming and practicing. And by the way, I was not being sarcastic at all.
Bad players should play better. If they can't aim or fade well, okay, but things like running into the same area and dying has to be changed. <b>Good players however can stack less and stop with the condescending remarks.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't feel like writing a long drawn out post, so I'll try to get to the point:
Perhaps you aren't trying to stop <i>stacking</i> per se, but stop players from being ######. Specifically, perhaps all servers should just ban the ######bags of the game, and these problems will solve themselves?
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1638160:date=Jul 10 2007, 01:31 AM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Jul 10 2007, 01:31 AM) [snapback]1638160[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If you want to fix stacking, just admin-abuse the players that do it until they cry about it and leave. Most server operators allow stacking to happen, especially because they play with it. If you show the 'good' players that their idea of a fun time is unwanted, they'll leave and go back to WoW. And since the working servers can usually be counted on the fingers of one hand, it shouldn't be too hard to coordinate something along these lines and get rid of the people that cause problems. Then everybody can enjoy playing terribly in peace. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And NS won't lose anything with their departure either from the pub scene. All the trouble-makers do is have fun at the expense of pretty much everybody else that isn't stacking with them. So get rid of them! Get a list of SteamIDs and ban them all in the best interests of the servers that remain.
so basically we conform and stop playing good so that you guys can have fun dropping ocs and playing 3 hour games of turret farming? sup g4b2s admins how about i win the lottery buy 300 servers and ddos ur servers so that my servers are the only ones up that way ill ban retards like u and u can't play ns
<!--quoteo(post=1638179:date=Jul 10 2007, 02:56 AM:name=tullen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tullen @ Jul 10 2007, 02:56 AM) [snapback]1638179[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> so basically we conform and stop playing good so that you guys can have fun dropping ocs and playing 3 hour games of turret farming? sup g4b2s admins how about i win the lottery buy 300 servers and ddos ur servers so that my servers are the only ones up that way ill ban retards like u and u can't play ns <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
The fact still stands that the worst players are almost always left out on the bad team - usually aliens. And unless you can play intelligently, unlike most of the players in pubs, you won't make any difference when there are any decent players on the same team.
That was a case of decent players joining whatever team the 'good' player joined. It just happened that there were 6 people following me around. Just more proof that the 'good' players aren't the cause of the stacking.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do realize that's a complete contradiction of terms?
'good' player joins and plays 'good'
'decent' players follow the 'good player'
therefore the 'good' player is causing the stacking, because the 'decent' players stack whatever team he plays on
waiting for you in the seahorse lounge
I would also love it if every server was full of good players so that me joining a team didn't stack it. But that isn't how it is.
When I first started playing I got rolled by good players as well. I walked down a long hallway at Romano and he 10 bulleted me. So I said "hmm, that doesn't work". So I NEVER DID IT AGAIN. I started trying to ambush. And it worked. It's not my ###### fault if pubbers can't learn from their mistakes and never improve their game like I did.
Yeh right ....stack.. more like join a bloody server where you get some REAL ping.
Nearly every pub I've ever played at has stacking (excluding TGNS because of the auto-randomizxer, but that's a different story). <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I laughed at this, because admins are unaffected by this plugin and most of the time that I've seen the admins stack....not that it is much of a stack but its funny to watch.
Indeed, but I believe he was talking about intent or somesuch. The good player really can't affect this other than choosing not to play at all.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly.
Or you can join after everyone else joins.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
or just not give a ###### what every noob on the server cares or cries about
or just not give a ###### what every noob on the server cares or cries about
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
qft
who cares what team people go? I only go marines on every server regardless of who is stacking what team because aliens are ###### boring on pubs and playing aliens on pub servers with mp_bs1 with a computer 2x worse than enigma's pc is ###### terrible and headache inducing.
First off, I respect smood for being bold enough to stand by what he believes. Most people don't have the guts to do something like that.
As for the content, I think what smood agues (at least one part of it) is true; it should be the responsibility of the good players to join the non stacked team, and kind of vise versa for the bad players (though I don't expect it because they are... bad). It should also be the responsibility of EVERY player to not make dumb comments like "Alienz play betar!" but rather give things like "GG, try not to stack next time" or no comment at all.
There can be times where "ok, I want to join my 2 friends in marine games tonight" and the teams are stacked to some extent, I'm perfectly fine with that. Though it
should be the responsibility of the solo good players or the other group of good players to join the opposite team. The good players should have the choice to whatever he so chooses but he/she should try to make an effort for balance.
Problem is that the world ain't perfect. The favourable conditions I stated in the first major paragraph happen about +/-50% of the time on the servers I play on. Thing is there will always be doorknob idiots that run into straight lines that join the unstacked team unknowingly which makes the stack worse. There will always be the superb/average players who will only join marines/the stacked team only to win all the time. There will always be 10 year old kids who rant about how the other team sucks and make rude comments about everything done incorrectly (hey, I'm an exception <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />). That's life, you gotta live with it.
As for solutions; There is nothing feasible right now that we can do to stop stacking and other problems like that. We could random everyone all the time, but honestly everyone will hate it, no matter if balance is achieved 99% of the time. We could give some handycap to the unstacked team, but that would bring up the issue of calucating skill and distributing handicap properly. We could try a MatchMaking system like in Halo 2, but that still wont even the teams (if not make it worse?).
The only solution I see possible is to change the community's attitude. We need to teach those dumb players who always stack to grow up. We need to teach the straight line skulk fans to ambush and take cover once and awhile. It's really the only way to actually get any progress with balance.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Treat the Root Problem, not the Symptom
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ending this long thought, consider the quote above. We could make the most sophisticated balancing device ever, but that is only treating the "Symptom". That treatment of the Symptom can only cause more problems latter on (in this case I see hacking of the balancing system, incorrect balances, really unhappy players etc.). The real solution is fixing the Root Problem, which is the community. Fixing that would solve most of the balance issues we have today, while causing many improvements to the enjoyment of the game (no more "Yo nub, learn to aim").
Now the only problem is is that fixing the Root Problem, which is MUCH harder to do than fixing the Symptoms; and to me is currently impossible without any major commitment.
Just my two res, I don't care if I'm right or wrong it's just my point of view. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
The only solution I see possible is to change the community's attitude. We need to teach those dumb players who always stack to grow up. We need to teach the straight line skulk fans to ambush and take cover once and awhile. It's really the only way to actually get any progress with balance.
...
Now the only problem is is that fixing the Root Problem, which is MUCH harder to do than fixing the Symptoms; and to me is currently impossible without any major commitment.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, but those dumb players don't want to learn. It's sad but true. they will always keep running at you in straight lines while calling you "###### aim scripter hacker" and generally go hide in their bubbled world getting high-fives from their other "GORGIE POWA OC POWA" buddies that they play with and mic spam 24/7 on that server.
people have tried to make major commitments to improving people, just most people don't want to get better and that is why ns is dead/dying (say what you will, it's true).
First off, I respect smood for being bold enough to stand by what he believes. Most people don't have the guts to do something like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is the internet for crying out loud
Sorry, but those dumb players don't want to learn. It's sad but true. they will always keep running at you in straight lines while calling you "###### aim scripter hacker" and generally go hide in their bubbled world getting high-fives from their other "GORGIE POWA OC POWA" buddies that they play with and mic spam 24/7 on that server.
people have tried to make major commitments to improving people, just most people don't want to get better and that is why ns is dead/dying (say what you will, it's true).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, thats why my last line says that it is hard to get people to learn. I guess it's something that'll have to wait until a major influx of new players (aka. NS2). Then the dumb players might see everyone around him getting better and learning and might get inspired to do the same <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />.
It's true, I know NS is dying part because of oldness/changes and part because of the community. I certainly know that if I hadn't found the TG server I probably would have stopped playing this game a few times within the past few months.
<!--quoteo(post=1638137:date=Jul 9 2007, 10:44 PM:name=TOmekki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TOmekki @ Jul 9 2007, 10:44 PM) [snapback]1638137[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
this is the internet for crying out loud
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Still, he's getting bashed up verbally (more like textually <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) as much as a punching bag in a gym and he continues to do his thing, you gotta give him some kudos for that. Even if what he's arguing might be less than correct sometimes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
I believe what you say is true; the only feasible way to get better games is just better attitude.
Bad players should play better. If they can't aim or fade well, okay, but things like running into the same area and dying has to be changed. Good players however can stack less and stop with the condescending remarks.
Randoming would be a way to force players on teams... but I guess people want choice.
I post what I post because I know that it's what the pub ns players say. They are the people who make the majority, yet fail to make an account here and speak up. And when they do, they are barraged in insults and sarcasm and of course leave. And the people I do talk to are usually the people who play NS seriously, most of which are the comp/clanners.
A Halo 2 matching system would be great, but if it's not already in CS:S, I doubt NS2 would carry it.
So yea, stacking is a hole in this great game. But it's a reference to the community itself, which is divided. Well that's it I guess. Nothing more to say than just, don't stack and don't insult. But it's your choice.
Bad players should play better. If they can't aim or fade well, okay, but things like running into the same area and dying has to be changed. <b>Good players however can stack less and stop with the condescending remarks.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't feel like writing a long drawn out post, so I'll try to get to the point:
Perhaps you aren't trying to stop <i>stacking</i> per se, but stop players from being ######. Specifically, perhaps all servers should just ban the ######bags of the game, and these problems will solve themselves?
If you want to fix stacking, just admin-abuse the players that do it until they cry about it and leave. Most server operators allow stacking to happen, especially because they play with it. If you show the 'good' players that their idea of a fun time is unwanted, they'll leave and go back to WoW. And since the working servers can usually be counted on the fingers of one hand, it shouldn't be too hard to coordinate something along these lines and get rid of the people that cause problems. Then everybody can enjoy playing terribly in peace.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And NS won't lose anything with their departure either from the pub scene. All the trouble-makers do is have fun at the expense of pretty much everybody else that isn't stacking with them. So get rid of them! Get a list of SteamIDs and ban them all in the best interests of the servers that remain.
so basically we conform and stop playing good so that you guys can have fun dropping ocs and playing 3 hour games of turret farming? sup g4b2s admins how about i win the lottery buy 300 servers and ddos ur servers so that my servers are the only ones up that way ill ban retards like u and u can't play ns
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ddos threats ban
--Scythe--