<!--quoteo(post=1636946:date=Jul 1 2007, 09:32 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Jul 1 2007, 09:32 PM) [snapback]1636946[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well, if you are going to talk about that, then...
+5 marine starting armor Jps did not get stunned by stomp heavies were not immune to gas You could stack ocs Recycle was added
Hive armor does effect early game. It could be the difference of a pistol shot or not.
most of all, the change from gorge pooled res to even distributed and rfk, which made charging even harder. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The hive armor change doesn't have any effect until the second hive is up. At that point its not the early game. Think before you type.
The alien buffs far outweigh the marine nerfs. Its human nature to look only for facts that support your case, so I'll forgive you for this one.
Defense used to be the best chamber pre-free upgrades. Since upgrades are free, early chambers actually help. Sensories and movements have higher utility upgrades than defence chambers. This is why they're usually dropped first. The only time I'd go defense is if I'm doing the bdrop strat.
Redemption is a pretty useless upgrade in my opinion. Carapace and regen are far more effective in keeping you alive since they always work. Having a low percent chance to be saved when you're below 20% health (think thats what it is) just doesn't cut it for me. Celerity or silence is definately the way to go for most lifeforms. Adrenaline is good as a gorge if you can't get an MC up nearby. If you can, then I'd go with celerity in order to be able to hit and run. I don't really enjoy cloaking, so I usually go focus or SoF. It's all preferential though, use whatever combinations you want. Don't be afraid to experiment.
Games are shorter because of free upgrades, better hitboxes, and more end-the-game oriented strats. Most of the games in older versions (1.04 - 3.0) seemed to me to be about expanding and holding real estate. These days both teams pressure but don't defend all too often.
Turrets and OCs are total aimbots, but the res is better spent dropping weapons or mines or going higher lifeforms. Two mine packs (20 res) are more effective protecting a phasegate than four turrets (50 res). Dropping two shotties (20 res) is more effective guarding a siege location than four turrets (40 res since you already have the TF for sieging). Higher lifeforms are more effective everywhere than chambers unless you have a skilled gorge for spit barrages and midcombat distractions/healing. A gorge can totally make the difference in a combat area even without chambers. Add in a MC in a corner for energy and an OC or two to dodge around and marines have a hell of a time unless theirs 4+ with a couple shotties.
People giving up depends on the server you're on. Many servers teams take forever to end a game that is obviously over and has been for some time. I've spent a good half an hour being spawn camped more than once. On most servers, if the team still has a chance everyone will keep trying. There are occasionally the few players that give up really quickly. Luckily they aren't the majority.
The players really aren't more elitist. There's just more sharply fined cliques. The competitive players are stereotyped into elitist ######s by everyone because of the actions of the few loud mouths (you guys know who you are). The pubbers hate people who are better than them or don't talk on their mic. The admins are abusive on most servers and very "picky" about who they choose to enforce the rules upon. People shout hacks at the good players just because they can't do what they see done and therefore believe its impossible. And people hijack threads to discuss completely unrelated topics because for some reason they can't find the "New Topic" button.
I assumed that at hive 1, there would be no hive armor bonus. Reading the 3.2 log again, there is hive armor at hive 1, just not at hive 2.
No, I think that marines received a couple things and aliens as well. The transition of the acid rocket and removal of spikes helped marines gain ground at hive 2 for instance. But then aliens now have access to the onos. It's far too immature to look at 3.2 and 1.04 and just say one side has it far better. So I'll let this one slide.
Defense was the best because you needed it for the higher lifeforms back then. But then again, I'm wondering why they also did not do movement/defense back then, dropping movement at hive 2.
You can defend your clanners, go ahead. Play on pubs, even though you whine about them. The only issue is when a couple of them join the same team every round. They know they are better than the server. They know they can swing the game as they please. But if you see 3 of your buddies on marines, do us a favor and join aliens. But they join marines. Aliens are spawncamped, map is marine capped, hive is electrocuted/mined.
WHY would you drop the first chamber in 1.0x based on higher life forms?! Honestly smood, it seems to me as though you never played those versions at all.
<!--QuoteBegin-Smood+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Smood)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Defense was the best because you needed it for the higher lifeforms back then. But then again, I'm wondering why they also did not do movement/defense back then, dropping movement at hive 2. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stopped reading. Wow. The reason defense was dropped first was because carapace was complete and utter balls awesome. Each level of carapace increased the armor the lifeform had as well as increased the amount of absorption per point of armor. Movement and sensory were not up to par with defense back then. Adrenaline was much slower to replenish your energy, celerity wasn't as fast, and silence only made your footsteps silent, not your attacks. Sensory had scent of fear, which worked the same (for some reason I want to say wounded marines only, but I'm probably wrong), hive sight or something, which allowed marines to light up as well with the alien flashlight, and then cloaking, which wasn't effective if you moved and never went to 100% cloak. Sensories also didn't have a cloaking field around them.
The reason defense was first was because it was the best chamber choice period. By hive two the game didn't matter because it was over. Umbra blocked 3/4 bullets and acid rocket was incredible. Go play on the 1.04 version, become a lerk at hive two, and take carapace. Go sit in marine spawn, umbra yourself and spike all the marines to death. You'll never die.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Carapace didn't change throughout the move from DC first to MC first. MC first started to appear as a strat by a couple of clans and gradually started to be seen as a very effective way of making use of free alien upgrades. The MC teleportation was a factor too, allowing the aliens to hedge their bets on which hive the marines would pressure first. DC first is still very effective and is re-emerging as a popular first chamber choice. I will always second a suggestion for DC first.
MCs first started to be used successfully by a couple of clans, one in NA and one in Europe before the introduction of free upgrades, mainly because of how it affected how lerks could be played.
<!--quoteo(post=1637631:date=Jul 6 2007, 08:18 AM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Jul 6 2007, 08:18 AM) [snapback]1637631[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Umbra blocked 3/4 bullets and acid rocket was incredible. Go play on the 1.04 version, become a lerk at hive two, and take carapace. Go sit in marine spawn, umbra yourself and spike all the marines to death. You'll never die. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just got a flashback of people laughing out loud on vent when one of my clanmaters( fattis ), back in the day would jump into a umbraing lerk and knife it dead. He did that alot actually. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
And yeah, the MC tactic (which i like to think my clan started on EU atleast) began to take an affect when the current lerk flight was introduced, with lerk bite. <3 TriggerHappy best lerk ever(im biased i know).
<!--quoteo(post=1637669:date=Jul 6 2007, 06:01 PM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tjosan @ Jul 6 2007, 06:01 PM) [snapback]1637669[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Is that the same triggerhappy who's face we put a shotgun to every time we played you? >_< <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> His awesomeness was minized by sucky teammates(rest of us) for hoping he would carry us in every round saying things like "just go in, youll take them!!". <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
PrefixÉirinn go BráchJoin Date: 2006-12-31Member: 59353Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1637246:date=Jul 3 2007, 04:29 PM:name=Golden)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Golden @ Jul 3 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]1637246[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The players really aren't more elitist. There's just more sharply fined cliques. The competitive players are stereotyped into elitist ######s by everyone because of the actions of the few loud mouths (you guys know who you are). The pubbers hate people who are better than them or don't talk on their mic. The admins are abusive on most servers and very "picky" about who they choose to enforce the rules upon. People shout hacks at the good players just because they can't do what they see done and therefore believe its impossible. And people hijack threads to discuss completely unrelated topics because for some reason they can't find the "New Topic" button. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Well, if you are going to talk about that, then...
+5 marine starting armor
Jps did not get stunned by stomp
heavies were not immune to gas
You could stack ocs
Recycle was added
Hive armor does effect early game. It could be the difference of a pistol shot or not.
most of all, the change from gorge pooled res to even distributed and rfk, which made charging even harder.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The hive armor change doesn't have any effect until the second hive is up. At that point its not the early game. Think before you type.
The alien buffs far outweigh the marine nerfs. Its human nature to look only for facts that support your case, so I'll forgive you for this one.
Defense used to be the best chamber pre-free upgrades. Since upgrades are free, early chambers actually help. Sensories and movements have higher utility upgrades than defence chambers. This is why they're usually dropped first. The only time I'd go defense is if I'm doing the bdrop strat.
Redemption is a pretty useless upgrade in my opinion. Carapace and regen are far more effective in keeping you alive since they always work. Having a low percent chance to be saved when you're below 20% health (think thats what it is) just doesn't cut it for me. Celerity or silence is definately the way to go for most lifeforms. Adrenaline is good as a gorge if you can't get an MC up nearby. If you can, then I'd go with celerity in order to be able to hit and run. I don't really enjoy cloaking, so I usually go focus or SoF. It's all preferential though, use whatever combinations you want. Don't be afraid to experiment.
Games are shorter because of free upgrades, better hitboxes, and more end-the-game oriented strats. Most of the games in older versions (1.04 - 3.0) seemed to me to be about expanding and holding real estate. These days both teams pressure but don't defend all too often.
Turrets and OCs are total aimbots, but the res is better spent dropping weapons or mines or going higher lifeforms. Two mine packs (20 res) are more effective protecting a phasegate than four turrets (50 res). Dropping two shotties (20 res) is more effective guarding a siege location than four turrets (40 res since you already have the TF for sieging). Higher lifeforms are more effective everywhere than chambers unless you have a skilled gorge for spit barrages and midcombat distractions/healing. A gorge can totally make the difference in a combat area even without chambers. Add in a MC in a corner for energy and an OC or two to dodge around and marines have a hell of a time unless theirs 4+ with a couple shotties.
People giving up depends on the server you're on. Many servers teams take forever to end a game that is obviously over and has been for some time. I've spent a good half an hour being spawn camped more than once. On most servers, if the team still has a chance everyone will keep trying. There are occasionally the few players that give up really quickly. Luckily they aren't the majority.
The players really aren't more elitist. There's just more sharply fined cliques. The competitive players are stereotyped into elitist ######s by everyone because of the actions of the few loud mouths (you guys know who you are). The pubbers hate people who are better than them or don't talk on their mic. The admins are abusive on most servers and very "picky" about who they choose to enforce the rules upon. People shout hacks at the good players just because they can't do what they see done and therefore believe its impossible. And people hijack threads to discuss completely unrelated topics because for some reason they can't find the "New Topic" button.
No, I think that marines received a couple things and aliens as well. The transition of the acid rocket and removal of spikes helped marines gain ground at hive 2 for instance. But then aliens now have access to the onos. It's far too immature to look at 3.2 and 1.04 and just say one side has it far better. So I'll let this one slide.
Defense was the best because you needed it for the higher lifeforms back then. But then again, I'm wondering why they also did not do movement/defense back then, dropping movement at hive 2.
You can defend your clanners, go ahead. Play on pubs, even though you whine about them. The only issue is when a couple of them join the same team every round. They know they are better than the server. They know they can swing the game as they please. But if you see 3 of your buddies on marines, do us a favor and join aliens. But they join marines. Aliens are spawncamped, map is marine capped, hive is electrocuted/mined.
People stack. Get over it.
edit: a lot of servers random the teams so forced stacking isnt even an issue. Tactical Gamer randoms the teams a lot maybe you should play there.
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Stopped reading. Wow. The reason defense was dropped first was because carapace was complete and utter balls awesome. Each level of carapace increased the armor the lifeform had as well as increased the amount of absorption per point of armor. Movement and sensory were not up to par with defense back then. Adrenaline was much slower to replenish your energy, celerity wasn't as fast, and silence only made your footsteps silent, not your attacks. Sensory had scent of fear, which worked the same (for some reason I want to say wounded marines only, but I'm probably wrong), hive sight or something, which allowed marines to light up as well with the alien flashlight, and then cloaking, which wasn't effective if you moved and never went to 100% cloak. Sensories also didn't have a cloaking field around them.
The reason defense was first was because it was the best chamber choice period. By hive two the game didn't matter because it was over. Umbra blocked 3/4 bullets and acid rocket was incredible. Go play on the 1.04 version, become a lerk at hive two, and take carapace. Go sit in marine spawn, umbra yourself and spike all the marines to death. You'll never die.
But that has nothing to do with 1.04.
Umbra blocked 3/4 bullets and acid rocket was incredible. Go play on the 1.04 version, become a lerk at hive two, and take carapace. Go sit in marine spawn, umbra yourself and spike all the marines to death. You'll never die.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just got a flashback of people laughing out loud on vent when one of my clanmaters( fattis ), back in the day would jump into a umbraing lerk and knife it dead. He did that alot actually. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
And yeah, the MC tactic (which i like to think my clan started on EU atleast) began to take an affect when the current lerk flight was introduced, with lerk bite. <3 TriggerHappy best lerk ever(im biased i know).
Is that the same triggerhappy who's face we put a shotgun to every time we played you? >_<
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His awesomeness was minized by sucky teammates(rest of us) for hoping he would carry us in every round saying things like "just go in, youll take them!!". <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
The players really aren't more elitist. There's just more sharply fined cliques. The competitive players are stereotyped into elitist ######s by everyone because of the actions of the few loud mouths (you guys know who you are). The pubbers hate people who are better than them or don't talk on their mic. The admins are abusive on most servers and very "picky" about who they choose to enforce the rules upon. People shout hacks at the good players just because they can't do what they see done and therefore believe its impossible. And people hijack threads to discuss completely unrelated topics because for some reason they can't find the "New Topic" button.
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I think I love you.