Don't know if anybody's mentioned it yet, but formatting is considered regular maintenance, and should be performed twice a year or so if you use your computer daily. In other words, you don't need to be having problems to do it.
Ah, that's less of an issue these days. It's still a good idea to format often, but now with Windows XP and so forth, we can reclaim lost memory better and we handle our registries more competently.
Back in the 98 days, though, the PC was bogged down so bad after about 6 months that you saw <i>drastic</i> increases in performance from a format. Don't get me wrong, I still advocate a format at least once a year!
This is true Rob. I just have such a good system for doing it I don't consider it much of an inconvenience.
As a matter of fact, if I do format every 6 months the worst problem I have is WindowsXP won't let me activate it automatically, and I have to call the damn 800 number! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad-fix.gif" />
Ah! fresh format, bloody beautiful. However, my damn creative drivers b0rked (despite backing them up), I got new drivers from their site but the included volume panel and a lot of features are all gone. This is a HP machine so I didn't get a creative cd, it all came included (with a lot of bs stuff). So currently my X-fi is barely working and neither can I manually download anything from creative as it is a bundled x-fi (not xtreme,fatal1ty, platinum etc).
EDIT: I apparently had made a backup and managed to find the installer for my x-fi \o/
<!--quoteo(post=1634468:date=Jun 19 2007, 06:04 AM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Jun 19 2007, 06:04 AM) [snapback]1634468[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Ah! fresh format, bloody beautiful. However, my damn creative drivers b0rked (despite backing them up), I got new drivers from their site but the included volume panel and a lot of features are all gone. This is a HP machine so I didn't get a creative cd, it all came included (with a lot of bs stuff). So currently my X-fi is barely working and neither can I manually download anything from creative as it is a bundled x-fi (not xtreme,fatal1ty, platinum etc).
EDIT: I apparently had made a backup and managed to find the installer for my x-fi \o/ <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hear you! If I wasn't a glutton for punishment, I'd buy a new, non-creative sound card.
"Welcome to the creative drivers install..."
"NO CREATIVE HARDWARE FOUND, ABORTING."
---
"Welcome to the creative drivers install..."
"Would you like to install digital sound?"
"No, my speakers are analog, thank you."
"NO CREATIVE HARDWARE FOUND, ABORTING."
---
"Welcome to the creative drivers install..."
"Would you like to install our package of worthless ###### that just hogs space on your drive and slows down your PC?"
AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
System is up and running. Does anyone know how I change what drive installations should suggest as default? It is kinda annoying with two partitions, that programs want to install to my windows partition.
<!--quoteo(post=1634129:date=Jun 18 2007, 01:37 AM:name=Depot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Depot @ Jun 18 2007, 01:37 AM) [snapback]1634129[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Don't know if anybody's mentioned it yet, but formatting is considered regular maintenance, and should be performed twice a year or so if you use your computer daily. In other words, you don't need to be having problems to do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> unless you don't know how to perform cleanup and proper maintenance you should never have to format any modern operating system. every operating system released in a year that doesn't pattern match 19XX provides enough tools to the user that you can easily bring it back to a state where it runs as well as (if not better than) the day you got it.
sven: if none of the listed drivers work, contact customer support (remember to include model numbers!) they're usually pretty quick and friendly when it comes to getting your hardware working.
<!--quoteo(post=1634493:date=Jun 19 2007, 03:12 PM:name=Abra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Abra @ Jun 19 2007, 03:12 PM) [snapback]1634493[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> System is up and running. Does anyone know how I change what drive installations should suggest as default? It is kinda annoying with two partitions, that programs want to install to my windows partition. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could try change the driver letters, perhaps that'll fool em.
TBH tho, I dont know if this might cause problems with whatever, anyone enlightened around?
<!--quoteo(post=1634494:date=Jun 19 2007, 09:15 AM:name=Black_Mage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black_Mage @ Jun 19 2007, 09:15 AM) [snapback]1634494[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> unless you don't know how to perform cleanup and proper maintenance you should never have to format any modern operating system. every operating system released in a year that doesn't pattern match 19XX provides enough tools to the user that you can easily bring it back to a state where it runs as well as (if not better than) the day you got it.
sven: if none of the listed drivers work, contact customer support (remember to include model numbers!) they're usually pretty quick and friendly when it comes to getting your hardware working. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course I know how to perform routine maintenance including cleanup. But all the maintenance in the world (including cleaning the registry) won't catch re: delete everything a complete (not quick) format will. If this was not the case performance wouldn't increase so dramatically.
When you format a disk, you erase all its files and prepare it as if it were a new, blank disk. Maintenance works but won't do this.
<!--quoteo(post=1634522:date=Jun 19 2007, 09:24 AM:name=Depot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Depot @ Jun 19 2007, 09:24 AM) [snapback]1634522[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Of course I know how to perform routine maintenance including cleanup. But all the maintenance in the world (including cleaning the registry) won't catch re: delete everything a complete (not quick) format will. If this was not the case performance wouldn't increase so dramatically.
When you format a disk, you erase all its files and prepare it as if it were a new, blank disk. Maintenance works but won't do this. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) as far as file deletion goes, a quick format is no different than a full format. (delete == remove from FAT. quick formats are generally regarded as 'bad form' since junk data can trick the drive controller into thinking that files trail off into places they shouldn't or causing miswrites and all sorts of other statistical improbabilities) 2) defragging a disk after removing unwanted files from the disk will reclaim all of the deallocated space. (and, depending on the filesystem and defragger, will shuffle files around so that files that look like they're related are placed near each other, reducing seek time) 3) deleting files does not make the computer go faster. 4) a fresh install of windows has system installation files between the boot sector and the windows system files (assuming you install to the primary partition) making it slower than a properly optimized disk. 5) windows prefetch is adaptive, a reinstall will force it to re-learn your startup procedure, reducing performance. 6) newer operating systems (vista) are even more adaptive, requiring a break-in period after installation to realize peak performance 7) two and a half years after installation, my copy of winXP runs faster than it ever has. 8) more mature OS installs have lower cache miss rates and more developed prefetch systems. more mature databases have lower cache miss rates. more mature pagefiles have lower retrieval times. more mature filesystems have lower seek times.
All I can say is, ya must have really had your system bogged down like a mofo in the beginning if it's running faster now. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
If you're afraid of formatting, continue to dodge it. It's only a minor inconvenience for me and certainly worth the little time that it takes.
<b>A reformat and reinstall is free.</b> Reinstalling and reformatting is the best way to start fresh with your system and eliminate any stubborn-to-remove programs, or spyware and viruses that might be causing a slowdown.
If you've got the budget for it, the safest way to do this is to simply buy a new hard drive. Install your new system there, and have your current one hooked up as secondary or slave ( or secondary-slave ). As you use your fresh OS, copy your old files over whenever you need them.
If poop hits the fans, boot from your old hard drive again.
If you've used the new OS long enough, and everything is running smoothly, then you can finally format your old drive to recover the space to do whatever.
<!--quoteo(post=1634535:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:27 AM:name=Depot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Depot @ Jun 19 2007, 10:27 AM) [snapback]1634535[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> [stuff] <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> let's make an analogy since you completely ignored the content of my previous post: telling me that my operating system will run better if i reset it constantly is like telling me my engine will run better if i keep replacing it with a stock. some things run better after you've worked on them for a while. it's not that hard to maintain a stable, quick and clean operating system <i>if you know what you're doing</i>.
also, the best way to run a spyware-free system is to never have had the spyware in the first place. certain peices of malware can infect your MBR causing the disk to be tainted for the rest of its service life. (i've never worked with the software in question but the spec sheet had some pretty interesting things written on it including "can survive multiple full disk formats and operating system reinstalls")
Let's say you don't really need to format until performance becomes a problem, and then only if you're otherwise unable to address same.
Myself, WinXP keeps having corrupted files. A repair/restore often works but usually creates additional issues. The last time I had to reinstall Windows two problems showed up that I can't eliminate, so I'm just going to install my new hdd and start from scratch.
<!--quoteo(post=1634525:date=Jun 19 2007, 10:53 AM:name=Black_Mage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black_Mage @ Jun 19 2007, 10:53 AM) [snapback]1634525[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> 1) as far as file deletion goes, a quick format is no different than a full format. (delete == remove from FAT. quick formats are generally regarded as 'bad form' since junk data can trick the drive controller into thinking that files trail off into places they shouldn't or causing miswrites and all sorts of other statistical improbabilities) 2) defragging a disk after removing unwanted files from the disk will reclaim all of the deallocated space. (and, depending on the filesystem and defragger, will shuffle files around so that files that look like they're related are placed near each other, reducing seek time) 3) deleting files does not make the computer go faster. 4) a fresh install of windows has system installation files between the boot sector and the windows system files (assuming you install to the primary partition) making it slower than a properly optimized disk. 5) windows prefetch is adaptive, a reinstall will force it to re-learn your startup procedure, reducing performance. 6) newer operating systems (vista) are even more adaptive, requiring a break-in period after installation to realize peak performance 7) two and a half years after installation, my copy of winXP runs faster than it ever has. 8) more mature OS installs have lower cache miss rates and more developed prefetch systems. more mature databases have lower cache miss rates. more mature pagefiles have lower retrieval times. more mature filesystems have lower seek times. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1) When you choose to run a regular format on a volume, files are removed from the volume that you are formatting and the hard disk is scanned for bad sectors. The scan for bad sectors is responsible for the majority of the time that it takes to format a volume.
<b>If you choose the Quick format option, format removes files from the partition, but does not scan the disk for bad sectors.</b> Only use this option if your hard disk has been previously formatted and you are sure that your hard disk is not damaged.
If you installed Windows XP on a partition that was formatted by using the Quick format option, you can also check your disk by using the chkdsk /r command after the installation of Windows XP is completed.
2) Regular defragging is considered good maintenance, but won't remove malware, spyware, viruses, or programs no longer used.
3) Deleting files will not improve performance. Formatting however removes much much more than "files".
4) Why install it to the primary partition?
5) Minimal effect, as is the timeframe it takes to adjust.
6) Wouldn't install Vista on YOUR computer, it's that bad. For the sake of argument let's stick to WinXP, the O/S of choice.
7) That's not very informative, nor is it good for comparison. It depends on what all is installed on your computer and what you use it for ie how many programs (and how many of these get updated regularly)
8) If you say so, ok.
Good point Rob. Also worth noting, most of us aren't in fear of creating backups.
AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
edited June 2007
Depot and black mage take it outside. I don't want another forum discussion in this thread.
Further; I don't know if it is too much to ask, but could a mod clean this up a bit? The idea was to get some fair ideas down for when formatting, not a discussion about whether or not to do it.
Assuming you are referring to the format and quick format options given by the windows xp install routine:
Quickformat will only delete the file index. This index consists of pointers, basically telling where a file begins, is interrupted, picked up gain etc.
Format will delete the file index and in addition overwrite nearly every byte on the harddrive with a set bit combination. (00 10 01 or 11) I am not sure how often the standard windows format overwrites and with which bit set, but thats not the point. The point is that the bad sector scan does only happen, if you choose to install windows. If you just go for the reformat no bad sector scan will be executed.
1) chkdisk 2) now you're telling me that my coffee machine won't make a margarita? this is madness! 3) yeah, re-OSing also removes any optimizations you may have performed 4) because the primary partition is right next to the MBR and other things needed at boot time 5) it takes up to two weeks to kick in. 6) looking at the direction modern operating systems are heading, adaptive self-optimization seems to be popular. 7) it's the real world.
<!--quoteo(post=1634806:date=Jun 20 2007, 11:18 AM:name=Black_Mage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black_Mage @ Jun 20 2007, 11:18 AM) [snapback]1634806[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> 1) chkdisk 2) now you're telling me that my coffee machine won't make a margarita? <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->this is madness!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> 3) yeah, re-OSing also removes any optimizations you may have performed 4) because the primary partition is right next to the MBR and other things needed at boot time 5) it takes up to two weeks to kick in. 6) looking at the direction modern operating systems are heading, adaptive self-optimization seems to be popular. 7) it's the real world. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Madness?
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(<i>I'm sorry, I just had to :/</i>)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Comments
Back in the 98 days, though, the PC was bogged down so bad after about 6 months that you saw <i>drastic</i> increases in performance from a format. Don't get me wrong, I still advocate a format at least once a year!
As a matter of fact, if I do format every 6 months the worst problem I have is WindowsXP won't let me activate it automatically, and I have to call the damn 800 number! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad-fix.gif" />
EDIT: I apparently had made a backup and managed to find the installer for my x-fi \o/
Ah! fresh format, bloody beautiful. However, my damn creative drivers b0rked (despite backing them up), I got new drivers from their site but the included volume panel and a lot of features are all gone. This is a HP machine so I didn't get a creative cd, it all came included (with a lot of bs stuff). So currently my X-fi is barely working and neither can I manually download anything from creative as it is a bundled x-fi (not xtreme,fatal1ty, platinum etc).
EDIT: I apparently had made a backup and managed to find the installer for my x-fi \o/
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hear you! If I wasn't a glutton for punishment, I'd buy a new, non-creative sound card.
"Welcome to the creative drivers install..."
"NO CREATIVE HARDWARE FOUND, ABORTING."
---
"Welcome to the creative drivers install..."
"Would you like to install digital sound?"
"No, my speakers are analog, thank you."
"NO CREATIVE HARDWARE FOUND, ABORTING."
---
"Welcome to the creative drivers install..."
"Would you like to install our package of worthless ###### that just hogs space on your drive and slows down your PC?"
"No, just the drivers, please."
"NO CREATIVE HARDWARE FOUND, ABORTING."
It is kinda annoying with two partitions, that programs want to install to my windows partition.
Don't know if anybody's mentioned it yet, but formatting is considered regular maintenance, and should be performed twice a year or so if you use your computer daily. In other words, you don't need to be having problems to do it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
unless you don't know how to perform cleanup and proper maintenance you should never have to format any modern operating system. every operating system released in a year that doesn't pattern match 19XX provides enough tools to the user that you can easily bring it back to a state where it runs as well as (if not better than) the day you got it.
sven: if none of the listed drivers work, contact customer support (remember to include model numbers!) they're usually pretty quick and friendly when it comes to getting your hardware working.
System is up and running. Does anyone know how I change what drive installations should suggest as default?
It is kinda annoying with two partitions, that programs want to install to my windows partition.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could try change the driver letters, perhaps that'll fool em.
TBH tho, I dont know if this might cause problems with whatever, anyone enlightened around?
unless you don't know how to perform cleanup and proper maintenance you should never have to format any modern operating system. every operating system released in a year that doesn't pattern match 19XX provides enough tools to the user that you can easily bring it back to a state where it runs as well as (if not better than) the day you got it.
sven: if none of the listed drivers work, contact customer support (remember to include model numbers!) they're usually pretty quick and friendly when it comes to getting your hardware working.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course I know how to perform routine maintenance including cleanup. But all the maintenance in the world (including cleaning the registry) won't catch re: delete everything a complete (not quick) format will. If this was not the case performance wouldn't increase so dramatically.
When you format a disk, you erase all its files and prepare it as if it were a new, blank disk. Maintenance works but won't do this.
Of course I know how to perform routine maintenance including cleanup. But all the maintenance in the world (including cleaning the registry) won't catch re: delete everything a complete (not quick) format will. If this was not the case performance wouldn't increase so dramatically.
When you format a disk, you erase all its files and prepare it as if it were a new, blank disk. Maintenance works but won't do this.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) as far as file deletion goes, a quick format is no different than a full format. (delete == remove from FAT. quick formats are generally regarded as 'bad form' since junk data can trick the drive controller into thinking that files trail off into places they shouldn't or causing miswrites and all sorts of other statistical improbabilities)
2) defragging a disk after removing unwanted files from the disk will reclaim all of the deallocated space. (and, depending on the filesystem and defragger, will shuffle files around so that files that look like they're related are placed near each other, reducing seek time)
3) deleting files does not make the computer go faster.
4) a fresh install of windows has system installation files between the boot sector and the windows system files (assuming you install to the primary partition) making it slower than a properly optimized disk.
5) windows prefetch is adaptive, a reinstall will force it to re-learn your startup procedure, reducing performance.
6) newer operating systems (vista) are even more adaptive, requiring a break-in period after installation to realize peak performance
7) two and a half years after installation, my copy of winXP runs faster than it ever has.
8) more mature OS installs have lower cache miss rates and more developed prefetch systems. more mature databases have lower cache miss rates. more mature pagefiles have lower retrieval times. more mature filesystems have lower seek times.
If you're afraid of formatting, continue to dodge it. It's only a minor inconvenience for me and certainly worth the little time that it takes.
<b>A reformat and reinstall is free.</b> Reinstalling and reformatting is the best way to start fresh with your system and eliminate any stubborn-to-remove programs, or spyware and viruses that might be causing a slowdown.
If poop hits the fans, boot from your old hard drive again.
If you've used the new OS long enough, and everything is running smoothly, then you can finally format your old drive to recover the space to do whatever.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" />
[stuff]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
let's make an analogy since you completely ignored the content of my previous post: telling me that my operating system will run better if i reset it constantly is like telling me my engine will run better if i keep replacing it with a stock. some things run better after you've worked on them for a while. it's not that hard to maintain a stable, quick and clean operating system <i>if you know what you're doing</i>.
also, the best way to run a spyware-free system is to never have had the spyware in the first place. certain peices of malware can infect your MBR causing the disk to be tainted for the rest of its service life. (i've never worked with the software in question but the spec sheet had some pretty interesting things written on it including "can survive multiple full disk formats and operating system reinstalls")
Myself, WinXP keeps having corrupted files. A repair/restore often works but usually creates additional issues. The last time I had to reinstall Windows two problems showed up that I can't eliminate, so I'm just going to install my new hdd and start from scratch.
1) as far as file deletion goes, a quick format is no different than a full format. (delete == remove from FAT. quick formats are generally regarded as 'bad form' since junk data can trick the drive controller into thinking that files trail off into places they shouldn't or causing miswrites and all sorts of other statistical improbabilities)
2) defragging a disk after removing unwanted files from the disk will reclaim all of the deallocated space. (and, depending on the filesystem and defragger, will shuffle files around so that files that look like they're related are placed near each other, reducing seek time)
3) deleting files does not make the computer go faster.
4) a fresh install of windows has system installation files between the boot sector and the windows system files (assuming you install to the primary partition) making it slower than a properly optimized disk.
5) windows prefetch is adaptive, a reinstall will force it to re-learn your startup procedure, reducing performance.
6) newer operating systems (vista) are even more adaptive, requiring a break-in period after installation to realize peak performance
7) two and a half years after installation, my copy of winXP runs faster than it ever has.
8) more mature OS installs have lower cache miss rates and more developed prefetch systems. more mature databases have lower cache miss rates. more mature pagefiles have lower retrieval times. more mature filesystems have lower seek times.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) When you choose to run a regular format on a volume, files are removed from the volume that you are formatting and the hard disk is scanned for bad sectors. The scan for bad sectors is responsible for the majority of the time that it takes to format a volume.
<b>If you choose the Quick format option, format removes files from the partition, but does not scan the disk for bad sectors.</b> Only use this option if your hard disk has been previously formatted and you are sure that your hard disk is not damaged.
If you installed Windows XP on a partition that was formatted by using the Quick format option, you can also check your disk by using the chkdsk /r command after the installation of Windows XP is completed.
2) Regular defragging is considered good maintenance, but won't remove malware, spyware, viruses, or programs no longer used.
3) Deleting files will not improve performance. Formatting however removes much much more than "files".
4) Why install it to the primary partition?
5) Minimal effect, as is the timeframe it takes to adjust.
6) Wouldn't install Vista on YOUR computer, it's that bad. For the sake of argument let's stick to WinXP, the O/S of choice.
7) That's not very informative, nor is it good for comparison. It depends on what all is installed on your computer and what you use it for ie how many programs (and how many of these get updated regularly)
8) If you say so, ok.
Good point Rob. Also worth noting, most of us aren't in fear of creating backups.
Further; I don't know if it is too much to ask, but could a mod clean this up a bit? The idea was to get some fair ideas down for when formatting, not a discussion about whether or not to do it.
Assuming you are referring to the format and quick format options given by the windows xp install routine:
Quickformat will only delete the file index. This index consists of pointers, basically telling where a file begins, is interrupted, picked up gain etc.
Format will delete the file index and in addition overwrite nearly every byte on the harddrive with a set bit combination. (00 10 01 or 11) I am not sure how often the standard windows format overwrites and with which bit set, but thats not the point. The point is that the bad sector scan does only happen, if you choose to install windows. If you just go for the reformat no bad sector scan will be executed.
2) now you're telling me that my coffee machine won't make a margarita? this is madness!
3) yeah, re-OSing also removes any optimizations you may have performed
4) because the primary partition is right next to the MBR and other things needed at boot time
5) it takes up to two weeks to kick in.
6) looking at the direction modern operating systems are heading, adaptive self-optimization seems to be popular.
7) it's the real world.
1) chkdisk
2) now you're telling me that my coffee machine won't make a margarita? <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->this is madness!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
3) yeah, re-OSing also removes any optimizations you may have performed
4) because the primary partition is right next to the MBR and other things needed at boot time
5) it takes up to two weeks to kick in.
6) looking at the direction modern operating systems are heading, adaptive self-optimization seems to be popular.
7) it's the real world.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Madness?
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(<i>I'm sorry, I just had to :/</i>)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->