The Siege Feels So Unfair :-(
MicroneisaD
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9161Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9161Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Some thoughts</div> I think the siege is a very unfair element. Maybe you should decrease health/power on alien structures in
return but something have to be done with the siege.
Its fully automated, shoots through walls and have a very long effective range. It just doesnt make sense, the marines was given guns and grenadelaunchers, why not take down alien defence like it is supposed to be done?
All they do now is find a room in the center, build sieges, lots of turrets, 2 factorys and then they leave the automated-super guns to destroy everything in a large area. Is that really fun? I dont know, maybe for marine players it is. To stand in a room and hear every little alien building being blowned away.
I like to take out alien structures with teammates, and guns, you know, those you have to use yourself?
As alien i feel there is no fun in being a gorge anymore, whats the meaning of putting up alot of defense when they will just destroy it from the room 3 miles away?? Its depressing.
I am pretty sure it wont be taken away, so i will suggest a idea i have come up with.
First of all, the effective firerange have to be reduced slightly. I think sieges should be a gun you should use to stop alien clog offence chambers just outside your outpost or door. Not the destroy-everything-on-half-map gun.
Ok the idea, the siege gun have to be operated by a marine to be able to shoot. By pressing Use key on it.
And thats not all, you should have to reload it also. So it will mean you have to build an ammo depot near, wich will maybe stop marines from putting those farking towers everywhere. So you have to stand near it, fire it with E, after a while run to nearest ammo depot, get siegegun ammo (energycells?? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
This will not make it the automated super-mega gun of the game but only the manualy driven super-mega gun.
What do you think?
No flaming please. And if you think my spelling sucks keep in mind that english is not my first language.
return but something have to be done with the siege.
Its fully automated, shoots through walls and have a very long effective range. It just doesnt make sense, the marines was given guns and grenadelaunchers, why not take down alien defence like it is supposed to be done?
All they do now is find a room in the center, build sieges, lots of turrets, 2 factorys and then they leave the automated-super guns to destroy everything in a large area. Is that really fun? I dont know, maybe for marine players it is. To stand in a room and hear every little alien building being blowned away.
I like to take out alien structures with teammates, and guns, you know, those you have to use yourself?
As alien i feel there is no fun in being a gorge anymore, whats the meaning of putting up alot of defense when they will just destroy it from the room 3 miles away?? Its depressing.
I am pretty sure it wont be taken away, so i will suggest a idea i have come up with.
First of all, the effective firerange have to be reduced slightly. I think sieges should be a gun you should use to stop alien clog offence chambers just outside your outpost or door. Not the destroy-everything-on-half-map gun.
Ok the idea, the siege gun have to be operated by a marine to be able to shoot. By pressing Use key on it.
And thats not all, you should have to reload it also. So it will mean you have to build an ammo depot near, wich will maybe stop marines from putting those farking towers everywhere. So you have to stand near it, fire it with E, after a while run to nearest ammo depot, get siegegun ammo (energycells?? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> )
This will not make it the automated super-mega gun of the game but only the manualy driven super-mega gun.
What do you think?
No flaming please. And if you think my spelling sucks keep in mind that english is not my first language.
Comments
why didn't you stop them when they only entered the room? It takes time to upgrade to seige. If they are building somewhere near you it's your job to know about it.
<u><b>As an alien you should know where every marine outpost/expansion is at all times</b></u>
Also what about xenocide? 800 dammage to marine structures and that's WITHOUT upgrading ANYTHING. Combined with bile bomb it can tear through a marine base just as fast as a seige can take out alien base.
BUUUTTTTT.....
It's difficult enough to get marines to follow simple orders on a pub servers as it is at the moment. How many would be willing to stand there for 1-2 mins doing nothing else but holding their use key ? Not many i'd bet. Simply wouldn't work for that reason.
In later game, their siege outposts are bigger and better equiped, but at that point you should have a few Fades and a Lerk and then it´s easy to take them out.
Remember that the Turret Factory is always the weakest link in a marine outpost, then you should go after the phase gate.
We did get beat by the marines on one match last night though. It was nice to see the pathetic meatpops win for once. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
even if marines do win and move on then any abandoned marine mini-base can be overrun by determined aliens very quickly leaving the area free again.
siege turrets will wipe things out rapidly and fades will wipe them out rapidly <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I really hate siege cannons grrr siege cannons are actually cheap, it's only the TF upgrade that is expensive... it's no problem putting down 2-3 siege cannons next to a hive, and it is EXTREMLY unlikely that you can take em down before they have blow anything within their range to bits. You go on about how easy it is to take out an outpost with lerk + fade,... well it aint easy at all if the outpost is backed up by a HA + GL marine and maybe another HA + HMG marine, especially if they have a phase gate in the base then it's downright impossible. (to take it out in time that is)
On certain maps one well fortified base with siege cannons in it can prevent aliens from building any resouce towers in 2-3 places wich basically screw em bigtime. One well placed (if it can take out 2 bases, sometimes they can) 15 RP cannon can take out 500 RP of alien structures easily. For example on nancy if the marines have mess hall they can take out atleast 2 resouce nozzle with siege cannons from that place + stop the aliens from setting up a base in mess hall itself. Thats 3 resouces under marine control from building siege in one area.
siege turrets will wipe things out rapidly and fades will wipe them out rapidly <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It takes a player to control a fade, there is no limit how many siege cannons there can be.
i do agree that some commanders abuse the system and just throw up siege and normal turrets in huge quantities. This should be prevented as it does not help the game in the slightest to have to try and take down 15 or 20 turrets in a small location like the gap between feedwater hive and atmos processing on ns_bast(?)
why didn't you stop them when they only entered the room? It takes time to upgrade to seige. If they are building somewhere near you it's your job to know about it.
<u><b>As an alien you should know where every marine outpost/expansion is at all times</b></u>
Also what about xenocide? 800 dammage to marine structures and that's WITHOUT upgrading ANYTHING. Combined with bile bomb it can tear through a marine base just as fast as a seige can take out alien base.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you didnt read the part where he said he preffers to play as gorge...
on some maps siege cannons can be placed on the other room just opposite of the hive only problem is to get to them you must run across half the map... sometimes trough the marines base and their turret farms aswell...
Tf= 25
T= 19x 4 = 76
TFupgrade= what 35
Siegeturret= 15, (I've seen it at 25? maybe I'm on drugs)
166 Rp.
Now lets break down HA marines.
Ha= 25
HMG=25
GL=33
Welder=10
so a HA+HMG+welder= 60.
HA+GL+Welder=78
Once again, the commander must be doing something right, and you must of **obscenity** up some where.
Now that I think of it!
this isn't including if the commander decides to place down a phse gate and a armory
about what percentage of games do you see marines winning?
about what percentage of even those games, few as they are, were won without relying heavily on siege
marines are screwed enough as it is, leave alone the only good thing they have left <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
And all fades have to do is acid rocket them or TF and all sieges are gone.
Last game I played where the Marines were actually good they used sieges. On Eclipse I think. We started in the Comp Core, then we expanded to Maintenance Acess. They started to siege that hive, but with teamwork we brought it down. Next they started to siege Comp Core, but with fades up, it was even easier to bring it down. Long story short, if you get all your aliens rushing the TF when they start a siege, you can take it out no problem at all.
Aliens still require SOME degree of teamwork to function. Although you can solo a few marines on your own as a skulk, once they start putting up sieges, your team had better pull together fast and take them down. Or it's good night.
I agree that the only thing that needs to be changed is that on certain maps a siege set up in the marine base should not hit a hive, I don't think that's cool.
What do you guys think of the "Siege Crawling Strategy"?
The biggest problem I have found with marines in general are the commanders that want to sit and fortify their base with 10000 leet turrets. Not only are turret usually ineffective at stopping the aliens (they are meant to slow them) they also cost heaps. I'd much rather have 2-3 turrets at base (and a couple of mines) and have 2, 3 or 4 resource towers (even undefended ones).
Once during my commanding games, (with a group of obedient soldiers) we built up an armoury and a turret factory and 2 turrets. Meanwhile I had 1-2 marines scout the hives, and then we rushed the main one. Needless to say destroying the hive set them back a fair bit, however they managed to get another first hive up and not soon after we had just about all the res pts on the map and tech galore. From here it just turned into the normal win with siege.
IMO, this is why siege seems overpowered. Marines 99% of the time use siege which requires a well timed attack (and some decent firepower) to destroy.
yeah its called HMG and peeking around corners swatting down O and D chambers liek there was no tomorrow...
good they have masses of O and D chambers less of your rounds will go to waste...
Just played a game where siege did NO damage to a small cluster of 2 def chambers and 2 offense chambers. 4 siege cannons, all firing on that position, no damage. Go fig.