More movement options for marines!
Haze
O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation
O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Climbing, boosting, crawling... (READ: NOT PRONE)</div>I believe that if NS gave more movement options to marines it would allow the mappers to make the maps more interesting and dynamic, as well as offer new and fun ways to navigate said maps.
<b>Boosting:</b>
We've all seen boosting in Half-Life already, where you jump on top of someone's head and help them into a higher place. But why not fully implement it with animations? Have the marines give their allies a hand by pushing them onto a higher ledge.
<b>Climbing:</b>
One of the most annoying things I find about Half-Life is the fact that unless you can completely clear a surface with a jump, you can't reach it. It means that my burly TSA marine can't climb over walls that are a mere seven feet tall. Why not? Why can't my marine jump in the air, grip the ledge and pull himself up? I'd really like to see this happen. Have it so that you can press and hold your use key (or some other 'grab' key) when you jump near a ledge, and your marine grabs on and pulls himself up. Again, it allows maps to be more dynamic and interesting, as well as offering new and fun ways to navigate them. This could also be implemented with ropes or stray electrical wires around the environment, which marine's could swing on ala-Tarzan to get to new places.
<b>Crawling:</b>
<i>I don't mean prone.</i> I don't want there to be a prone key in NS - it has no place in the game. Its too fast paced and laying on the ground really doesn't do much for you. But what about those really, really small vents? Ones that you can't stand crouched inside, but instead have to crawl into? Why not allow players to walk up to a vent opening, crouch down, hit their use key (or some other 'crawl' key) and then their marine lies on their stomach and begins to crawl into the vent. This would make vents even more alien friendly and less of marine territory (yay!), but also add some sexy suspense when you're inside a cramped vent - who is behind you? I think it would fit with NS's atmosphere <b>perfectly.</b> It also allows (again) mappers to make additional maps that are more unique than what we have now, and opens up new options to them.
Overall, these ideas are mainly to add a bit more excitement to marine movement in NS, as well as make maps even more awesome than they are now. Full of seven foot ledges to climb on, ten foot ledges to be boosted to, barely-big-enough vents to crawl into, ropes to swing from, and even more.
<b>Boosting:</b>
We've all seen boosting in Half-Life already, where you jump on top of someone's head and help them into a higher place. But why not fully implement it with animations? Have the marines give their allies a hand by pushing them onto a higher ledge.
<b>Climbing:</b>
One of the most annoying things I find about Half-Life is the fact that unless you can completely clear a surface with a jump, you can't reach it. It means that my burly TSA marine can't climb over walls that are a mere seven feet tall. Why not? Why can't my marine jump in the air, grip the ledge and pull himself up? I'd really like to see this happen. Have it so that you can press and hold your use key (or some other 'grab' key) when you jump near a ledge, and your marine grabs on and pulls himself up. Again, it allows maps to be more dynamic and interesting, as well as offering new and fun ways to navigate them. This could also be implemented with ropes or stray electrical wires around the environment, which marine's could swing on ala-Tarzan to get to new places.
<b>Crawling:</b>
<i>I don't mean prone.</i> I don't want there to be a prone key in NS - it has no place in the game. Its too fast paced and laying on the ground really doesn't do much for you. But what about those really, really small vents? Ones that you can't stand crouched inside, but instead have to crawl into? Why not allow players to walk up to a vent opening, crouch down, hit their use key (or some other 'crawl' key) and then their marine lies on their stomach and begins to crawl into the vent. This would make vents even more alien friendly and less of marine territory (yay!), but also add some sexy suspense when you're inside a cramped vent - who is behind you? I think it would fit with NS's atmosphere <b>perfectly.</b> It also allows (again) mappers to make additional maps that are more unique than what we have now, and opens up new options to them.
Overall, these ideas are mainly to add a bit more excitement to marine movement in NS, as well as make maps even more awesome than they are now. Full of seven foot ledges to climb on, ten foot ledges to be boosted to, barely-big-enough vents to crawl into, ropes to swing from, and even more.
Comments
Good post mate. Got me thinking. However
1 and 2) A big reason this hasn't been done is there are a lot of variables to consider. It would have to be a scripted sequence that can only play out given a certain set of circumstances. A light armor marine has no place boosting a heavy armor, and even then if a marine has a GL or HMG, his buddy is going to have issues boosting him up much. Both parties would have to be unable to shoot while this happens (at least the guy on the bottom would) which is fine by me.
1) Boosting - good idea, and I would love to see an animation for this. However, how do you make sure the animations play out smoothly going from walking to jumping/climbing to boosting? And how do you start the "boost" animation? What would be the trigger?
2) Climbing - another one I would love to have. It just requires, again, new animations that have to be scripted to work just right as well as map-based triggers (on source, maybe situational triggers). It would be hard to impliment, but well worth it.
3) Crawling. YES! YES YES DEAR GOD YES! This is so much more realistic than seeing the headless horseman crawling toward your cloaked aft in the vents carrying his deadly boomstick!
Crawling, how do we hunt out those last pesky vent camping aliens? What about JPs importance for clearing out hard to reach vents? Do they have to crawl too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> ? Vent networks would force a marine in just to be circled around and bit in the ###### without being able to do a ish about it.
(one of the devs feel free to correct me if implementing something like this actually wouldn't take much effort)
I would mix boosting and climbing into the same category as you need to be able to climb to be boosted. Good ideas but falls on the last one.
Crawling, how do we hunt out those last pesky vent camping aliens? What about JPs importance for clearing out hard to reach vents? Do they have to crawl too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> ? Vent networks would force a marine in just to be circled around and bit in the ###### without being able to do a ish about it.
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It's called team work, where another marine is behind him covering. If a marine is a alone in some vent, he deserves to die anyway.
It's called team work, where another marine is behind him covering. If a marine is a alone in some vent, he deserves to die anyway.
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It feels unecessary to waste 2 marines just to scout a vent, especially if we say it's a 6v6 game.
Also the last alien would die because of the counter, so thats a bit of a none issue, and JPs can go the long way without the vents damnit!
Boosting. marines boost eachother with hands to feet, but as more gets onto to boost, it gets top heavy, then u need to add more to the bottom, and with animation, also, make it so the gun gets holstered so its more real
Climbing. marine's can jump in the air, grip the ledge and pull himself up? I'd really like to see this happen. Have it so that you can press and tap( the faster u tap the,the faster you go up) your use key then crawl up, add an animation to it too(with hands in eye view and player model animation too), also something like what alyx did in that one c17 map to get on on that building
Crawling:
press crouch then you can crouch, again and you crawl(lower) then prone (lower)
The Human Ladder. when you boost a bunch of people and then theres a ledge, both boosting and climbing get combined, then you can make a ladder, with a bunch of marines grabbing a ledge, then another marine climbing down on him,then again and again, a marine then could climb up and the others too, also good for getting a team up a ledge 1 by 1
swinging/rope climbing. basicly grabbing a rope, climbing up it then swinging to grab a ledge or gain enoth momentome to let go and fall to a ledge( or on one)
human rope. very odd idea, marines grab a pipe on a ceiling, then can swing with up to 6 holding eachother then the bottom marine can let go and grab a ledge, then the next and so on till the team all is at the same area
wall benching. where you place both hand on a wall, then walk you're legs up another wall so u crawl up the wall and grab a ledge then climb up
wall running, hoping and jumping. you sprint on the floor, then jump and press strafe left or right then for a few seconds you run on the wall, ow you sprint to a wall then jump and you run up it for half a sec and can fall or press jump and backflip off it, or run to wall then jump and jump again to hop off
these are just ideas i randomly thought of
Everyone raises good points related to crawling, and (believe it or not) those are the exact points I wanted to achieve. A marine can't simply go into the vents, and they become a sort of safe haven for aliens. It would only be a last ditch effort to clear them out, only when absolutely necessary - it is the aliens territory, not a large, clumsy human to be jerking around in. When the last alien is alive, let him bounce around in the vent and die after 30 seconds of the ping of death.
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I see you never have been through a game were the last gorge has 60 res to pump out dcs and ocs in a vent just before the hive goes down to prolong the game for nothing else but annoyance.
wall running, hoping and jumping. you sprint on the floor, then jump and press strafe left or right then for a few seconds you run on the wall, ow you sprint to a wall then jump and you run up it for half a sec and can fall or press jump and backflip off it, or run to wall then jump and jump again to hop off
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So...like an alien wall jump for marines combined with the Matrix? Those are alien stunts, and are what make playing alien unique and fun. Marines shouldn't be able to flip over an alien that chases it by getting to a wall, and then open fire on it from behind as the dazed skulk stares at the marine's superior agility.
I see you never have been through a game were the last gorge has 60 res to pump out dcs and ocs in a vent just before the hive goes down to prolong the game for nothing else but annoyance.
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I play on a server where DCs shut down after all hives have been eliminated. I see no reason why in NS2 this cannot be the same case, theres no reason for it not to be.
<!--quoteo(post=1620758:date=Apr 13 2007, 02:42 PM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Apr 13 2007, 02:42 PM) [snapback]1620758[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Everyone raises good points related to crawling, and (believe it or not) those are the exact points I wanted to achieve. A marine can't simply go into the vents, and they become a sort of safe haven for aliens. It would only be a last ditch effort to clear them out, only when absolutely necessary - it is the aliens territory, not a large, clumsy human to be jerking around in. When the last alien is alive, let him bounce around in the vent and die after 30 seconds of the ping of death.
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Haze I actually agree with you on this one. You don't really need the casual play ping of death to be honest. They will have hardly any upgrades, you will have many upgrades. They will have just a few or one player, you will have a full team. If you can't crush them... honestly? You kind of suck as a team at coordination. This is partly why it is interesting to watch when you are a dead alien. Having a good map design helps too.
<!--quoteo(post=1620769:date=Apr 13 2007, 03:16 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Apr 13 2007, 03:16 PM) [snapback]1620769[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I see you never have been through a game were the last gorge has 60 res to pump out dcs and ocs in a vent just before the hive goes down to prolong the game for nothing else but annoyance.
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First, that's a lot of resources.
Second, you've clearly never seen a game where marines are smart enough to grenade launcher spam and/or use seiges to nail them hardcore.
Of course they only do it in vents that cannot be reached from the outside with GLs, siegeing works but it takes alot of time to setup.
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Oh please... Power-built seiges take like what? Definitely under 30 seconds if even that. Are you <i>that</i> impatient? And even then most of the time GLs will do the job just fine. Hell I've even see marines do a phasegate rush to the vent they are hiding in. Hilarious stuff actually. And let's not forget the new weapons which are just being invented. Flamethrowers? Or how about those dark energy balls? It's like doing a break in billards...
"Call it bob"
"Ok. Hmm. Gorge, upper right corner pocket."
*bing bing bing bing powwaa (gorge disintergrates) bing bing plooom!*
"Nice shot Bob!"
"Thanx buddy"
If it's <i>really</i> that hard, yes your team does suck at coordination. Jeeze, come to think of it, what does that say about the alien team then! ><
In any case let's get back on topic now -- back to ideas about movement options (can't help but think of ideas from the <i>Splinter Cell</i> series) for marines. This debate over how hard it could be theoretically for a weak marine team to flush out gorges who had 60 resoures they wasted on vent structures is just, well, stupid to debate on, no offense.
What about the ability to climb along ceiling pipes. For example, say there is a big pit you need to cross in a map but you notice there are some pipes running along above on the ceiling to the other side. You jump up and grab a hold. Of course be careful because now you have no weapons, as both of your hands are hanging onto the pipe. If a lerk does a flyby and bites your arm off, you go falling to your doom.
I do play public =(
On topic: Should it be dynamic (used anywhere with a possible ledge) or should it be map marked spots?
Dynamic might feel more fun because of the freedom while map marked would deny any abuse of it (a bit easier on the mapper if marines would get in a critical vent by stacking 3 marines on eachother for example or so)
Light marine boosting up heavy stuff: Make each boost take time, if the weight is heavier make it take longer to lift up.
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I cant imagine a single vanilla lift a HA into a vent.
I cant imagine a single vanilla lift a HA into a vent.
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That's because they shouldn't be allowed to go into vents.
<!--quoteo(post=1622468:date=Apr 22 2007, 02:48 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Apr 22 2007, 02:48 PM) [snapback]1622468[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
"If it's really that hard, yes your team does suck at coordination. Jeeze, come to think of it, what does that say about the alien team then! ><"
I do play public =(
On topic: Should it be dynamic (used anywhere with a possible ledge) or should it be map marked spots?
Dynamic might feel more fun because of the freedom while map marked would deny any abuse of it (a bit easier on the mapper if marines would get in a critical vent by stacking 3 marines on eachother for example or so)
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Dynamic. Less hassle for mappers and players alike.
Not trying to offend, I usually play public too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> , but even on public it shouldn't take <i>that</i> long.
<!--quoteo(post=1622468:date=Apr 22 2007, 03:48 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Apr 22 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]1622468[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On topic: Should it be dynamic (used anywhere with a possible ledge) or should it be map marked spots?
Dynamic might feel more fun because of the freedom while map marked would deny any abuse of it (a bit easier on the mapper if marines would get in a critical vent by stacking 3 marines on eachother for example or so)
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vote <!--coloro:#33CC00--><span style="color:#33CC00"><!--/coloro--><b>yes</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1625120:date=May 5 2007, 08:52 AM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ May 5 2007, 08:52 AM) [snapback]1625120[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1625083:date=May 4 2007, 11:07 PM:name=sanobrew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sanobrew @ May 4 2007, 11:07 PM) [snapback]1625083[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Light marine boosting up heavy stuff: Make each boost take time, if the weight is heavier make it take longer to lift up.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I cant imagine a single vanilla lift a HA into a vent.
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I agree with that as well. A Heavy Armor would be way, way too, well, heavy to lift. Unless the marines are built like World Championship Strongest Man competitors.