ok the mapping is solid, great brushwork! but so many things need tweaking before its even playable. at all.
for starters, brighten EVERYTHING up. every corrideor should be lighter. the 'light' ones at the moment are just dim. the drak corridoors are pitch black so you cant see a thing. this is good in places but not everywhere in the map. So heres my list of things that need fixing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
/ posted a ishload of pictures which dont really need up any more /
ooh thats it! yeah generally more lighting! fix any bugs where people get stuck, and a tad less red lighting. some places I got lost, like walking into a wall for 3 minuites vecause I could not see. I play with gamma on full. people with recommended gamma settings will be BLIND!
I hope all these crits dont sound to negative, its a fantastic map but you need to sort out these areas or it will never get on servers. Good luck and I cant wait for the final release! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tsa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::tsa::" border="0" alt="tsa.gif" />
LOL, well, those images get the point across. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Though, everything that you've posted looks MUCH darker than it does on my box... I wonder if the fact that I'm running an old version of NS has anything to do with that.
It'll take a little while, but I'll see what I can do.
yeah I suspected it might be differences between my pc and yours as it seemed to affect the whole level but the screenshots where darker than the real thing for me. I hope it helps, I really wanna see this map on a server someday soon :3 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tsa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::tsa::" border="0" alt="tsa.gif" />
Well Fearian has said it all. I will concur on it being WAY too dark. Sections like U bends can't have NO lights because you simply get lost. You need a massive amount more light in the entire map - I can't comment on the other aspects of the design because I couldn't see them.
I'll try hooking up a TV to my computer so that I can see if this is something that's starting with the fact that I'm using an LCD monitor now instead of a CRT. Things are much brighter with this new monitor, but I had no idea that it could've been that much.
I'll post more when I have some fixed implemented as well as after checking the situation with displays.
EDIT: I take it that the U bend on the left side (brighter one) was light enough? Or should I make it lighter as well?
Changed the temp glass thingy, getting closer to the needed detail level. Also adding rails and stairs so people who jump over the edge don't get stuck. <img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0086.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Adding some more lighting. <img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0087.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /> Removing some of the red lighting, and overall making some of the areas brighter. <img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0090.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Going to try and add some of the missing detail brushwork to the vents next as well as adding the entrances from the engine cores and plugging the one near the hive (or moving).
Very nice, I like a lot the red thing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
People still playing on CRT should have their cookies stolen <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Damn that was dark. Have you recently increased the brightness Shoot_me?
Also you seem to be cramming in more and more detail. Now for a combat map not so much of a problem, but do keep an eye on it. Also2: I like lots of detail <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Yeah, I'm cranking the brightness up on select point-lights while trying to keep some really dark corners here and there for hiding spots.
I'll try to have a new build ready some time this week.
Also, about the vent behind the hive:
I'll remove it. There are two vents (one in each engine cylinder) that I'll tie into the main trunk section. That way, if the aliens allow BOTH reactors to be started and the engines brought online, it'll completely block the vents from the hive (but leave the rest of the sections with the exception of the outer reactor doors open).
I'll also be filling the windows in on the reactor doors with null textured brushes (to look like windows) and tie the doors into the startup timer. So, when the reactor starts, the door shuts soon after. That, and due to r_speeds, I'm probably going to throw in a kill box at the base of each reactor room. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I was working with the tractor the other day. While making sure everything was working right I got a few ideas after checking the some of the fuel injection components. Better?
*runs downstairs to spare PC to check* <a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/?action=view¤t=co_engineroom3.flv" target="_blank"><img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/th_co_engineroom3.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
... BIG setback. My computer has been locking up randomly for a little while now. Still not quite sure as to the cause. But it has been happening when I use QuArK... ALOT. I'm still checking my HD for any and all backups made, but the last lockup for whatever reason corrupted the co_engineroom file. Can't even open it.
Odds of any recent backups is looking slim ATM since I was getting ready to back up the file in an hour or so.. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad-fix.gif" />
Holy $(#*#$ THANK GOD I'M USING QUARK! I dug up a .map file from the compiler's output directory! It'll be a pain to do any major brushwork editing since everything is no longer organized, but it's all there... well mostly.
One of the hundreds of changes that I almost lost. This is one of the five main engine ports (only two are shown in the map). The engines are off, but (once I add it in) both reactors are started, this area will be fatal to anything entering.. and will also push anyone in there into space. Also, please refrain from walking through the force field while the engine is off.
EDIT: Next paycheck, I'm going to get WinXP... backup what I want to keep, format EVERYTHING else, and re-install. I've been running on the same install of Win2k for 4+ years now.. I think it's about time.
The red column that you all see is part of the power distribution system that gets the power from the reactors to the engine cores. It’s one of those “always on you don’t want to risk shutting it down” type of systems (older design in the NS world?). This is powered by a different power generator that is on a separate circuit to the one used by the engines.
The engine ports are shown with the inner blast doors opened. The infestation occurred when the engines were undergoing maintenance. The infestation has prevented the engineers from remotely closing the blast doors or sealing any critical bulkheads. This is why the marines are called in; attempting to vent the kharaa into space would also result in venting just about everyone else in the back half of the ship into space. Currently, a series of force fields are holding the air in, and if the engines can be started, the heat out.
Love the backstory behind the technology. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Also: Just took the beta for a quick spin. Really like the style all around, though, a lot of really dark areas still! (And for reference, I know my old CRT was brighter, I can't turn up the brightness on my new(er) LCD without washing out the colours, I find.) Atmospherically, it's great, but blackness can make it hard on gameplay! And when you get the vent routing figured out, I hope you can make those look nicer! (Understandable leaving them square while it's WIP though)
Glad you didn't lose the source! (Reading about that reminded me to stick a .rmf of co_moira onto a cd!)
don't want to be picky, but I just couldn't see a thing in this map. lost my sense of direction since flashlight was my only source of light :P had to navigate with dev_overview and point flashlight to my feet so I knew where I was. so brighten it up! that or maybe I r eally should give a thought for finally buying an LCD monitor
Well, I was focusing on the hive area the most (is that area bright enough?) and decided to release a new beta after I nearly lost the source files to the map.
Also, dynamic bounce was disabled on the last compile. I just wanted to see what it looked like but forgot to switch bounce back on.. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Half-Life allowing, I'll add stuff to the ductwork. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Actually, the areas that are brighter do look like they've recieved the most attention thus far. The hive looks good in this regard, I'd maybe try to get a bit more of a bright white light on the floor under the hive (sort of like how you have it at the other end of the hive room from there) though if you turn dynbounce on, the light from the engine port thingies might do the trick too.
To the immediate exits of the hive, I like the columns of yellow dotted light thingies. It's a nice effect that I think you should use elsewhere though the map. Those areas though are otherwise really dark, and while I wouldn't overlap that yellow light too much, there is a lot of blackness that could use light.
And the "wing" areas where you can look outside and see some big gun looking things, the "lit" side seems okay, but the side with all the sparks is way, way to dark. Again, no dynbounc probably hurts this area, but having strictly flashing light could give a person a headache (again, great atmospherically, but not so much gameplay wise). I'd add a few other spots of light to the area. Also, the ladder out of there can't be climbed by skulks... sort a pain. If there was a flush wall or something to climb otherwise it wouldn't be a problem.
The automatically opening doors I also found I could break... I moved in and out of their range fast enough to cause them to close instead of opening when I approached them. I can't recall how trigger_presence works off the top of my head, but I do know that with a couple extra entities you can control the state of the door better. Have the entry state of the trigger_presence target a trigger_relay. Have the trigger relay then target the door but have the trigger_relay's "trigger state" set to "ON". This way when someone enters, it'll ONLY open the door. Then have the door on a timer so it shuts itself. I dunno, the limited logic capabilities of the halflife engine make it hard to do this stuff reliably.
The darker “wing” area is next on my list (the gun thingies are actually supposed to be maneuvering thrusters. =p Guns will be shown in the ready room). I’m thinking about adding some utility lights to that area using spot lights. That way, I can light up section of that segment without obliterating any skulk hiding spots.
Also, since the last compile, I’ve added lights to the vents in each wing area and used color values 255 128 128 instead of 255 0 0 which seems to help A LOT in illuminating the area.
Also, in the mentioned area: added some detail to that blank wall area near the ladder. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I loaded the map up in my NS install instead of the NSP... erm.. yeah... gamma and brightness were cranked all the way up on my NSP install for some reason... so, I can now see, or not see what the problem is, finally. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
So no final compile hmm <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Just jerking your chain here, so now you have to do some recompiles and play around with the lighting settings? To quote some cartoon from who the name escapes my mind (Eek the cat cavemen)
Off the top of my head, I still need to finish the ents to have the engines kick in when you start both reactors, add some extra brushwork to the vents, finish the ready room, find an mp3 to use in the ready room, and map in the some working cannons on the ready room.
Not a whole lot as far as brushwork goes, but I'm hoping that the overall lighting is going to be much closer to what is needed. Compiling right now. Should be ready in an hour or few. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Shown below is the ready room. It's a heavy transport ship designed for deep space rescue missions. Not exactly a TSA ship, but rather one provided by the company owning the research/scouting cruiser that you're being transported to.
Shown also are the cryogenics pods normally used for missions requiring extended travel times. They're designed to lower down when personnel enter and leave the pods. When in use or not in use, they're suspended from the center support structure to save on space.
make sure you fix all the places where players as marines can fall down and cant climb up again, some pipe areas and the generator things, if you havnt already!
Comments
ok the mapping is solid, great brushwork! but so many things need tweaking before its even playable. at all.
for starters, brighten EVERYTHING up. every corrideor should be lighter. the 'light' ones at the moment are just dim. the drak corridoors are pitch black so you cant see a thing. this is good in places but not everywhere in the map.
So heres my list of things that need fixing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
/ posted a ishload of pictures which dont really need up any more /
ooh thats it! yeah generally more lighting! fix any bugs where people get stuck, and a tad less red lighting. some places I got lost, like walking into a wall for 3 minuites vecause I could not see. I play with gamma on full. people with recommended gamma settings will be BLIND!
I hope all these crits dont sound to negative, its a fantastic map but you need to sort out these areas or it will never get on servers. Good luck and I cant wait for the final release! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tsa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::tsa::" border="0" alt="tsa.gif" />
Though, everything that you've posted looks MUCH darker than it does on my box... I wonder if the fact that I'm running an old version of NS has anything to do with that.
It'll take a little while, but I'll see what I can do.
I'll post more when I have some fixed implemented as well as after checking the situation with displays.
EDIT: I take it that the U bend on the left side (brighter one) was light enough? Or should I make it lighter as well?
Changed the temp glass thingy, getting closer to the needed detail level. Also adding rails and stairs so people who jump over the edge don't get stuck.
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0086.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Adding some more lighting.
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0087.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Removing some of the red lighting, and overall making some of the areas brighter.
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0090.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Going to try and add some of the missing detail brushwork to the vents next as well as adding the entrances from the engine cores and plugging the one near the hive (or moving).
Also you seem to be cramming in more and more detail. Now for a combat map not so much of a problem, but do keep an eye on it. Also2: I like lots of detail <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I'll try to have a new build ready some time this week.
Also, about the vent behind the hive:
I'll remove it. There are two vents (one in each engine cylinder) that I'll tie into the main trunk section. That way, if the aliens allow BOTH reactors to be started and the engines brought online, it'll completely block the vents from the hive (but leave the rest of the sections with the exception of the outer reactor doors open).
I'll also be filling the windows in on the reactor doors with null textured brushes (to look like windows) and tie the doors into the startup timer. So, when the reactor starts, the door shuts soon after. That, and due to r_speeds, I'm probably going to throw in a kill box at the base of each reactor room. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0000b.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0001b.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0002b.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
*runs downstairs to spare PC to check*
<a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/?action=view¤t=co_engineroom3.flv" target="_blank"><img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/th_co_engineroom3.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
and I do like your brushwork
Odds of any recent backups is looking slim ATM since I was getting ready to back up the file in an hour or so.. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad-fix.gif" />
I might finish this map after all...
Also:
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0003b.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
One of the hundreds of changes that I almost lost. This is one of the five main engine ports (only two are shown in the map). The engines are off, but (once I add it in) both reactors are started, this area will be fatal to anything entering.. and will also push anyone in there into space. Also, please refrain from walking through the force field while the engine is off.
EDIT: Next paycheck, I'm going to get WinXP... backup what I want to keep, format EVERYTHING else, and re-install. I've been running on the same install of Win2k for 4+ years now.. I think it's about time.
<a href="http://www.aybnetwork.com/co_engineroom_BETA2.zip" target="_blank">DOWNLOAD co_engineroom BETA2</a>
The red column that you all see is part of the power distribution system that gets the power from the reactors to the engine cores. It’s one of those “always on you don’t want to risk shutting it down” type of systems (older design in the NS world?). This is powered by a different power generator that is on a separate circuit to the one used by the engines.
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0004b.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0005b.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
The engine ports are shown with the inner blast doors opened. The infestation occurred when the engines were undergoing maintenance. The infestation has prevented the engineers from remotely closing the blast doors or sealing any critical bulkheads. This is why the marines are called in; attempting to vent the kharaa into space would also result in venting just about everyone else in the back half of the ship into space. Currently, a series of force fields are holding the air in, and if the engines can be started, the heat out.
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0006.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Power distribution regulator. If that thing goes, you’ll be limping home or to the nearest station on maneuvering thrusters only.
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0008b.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
EDIT: New ready room that I'm working on:
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/engine_room_readyroom0002.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/engine_room_readyroom0003.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Also: Just took the beta for a quick spin. Really like the style all around, though, a lot of really dark areas still! (And for reference, I know my old CRT was brighter, I can't turn up the brightness on my new(er) LCD without washing out the colours, I find.) Atmospherically, it's great, but blackness can make it hard on gameplay! And when you get the vent routing figured out, I hope you can make those look nicer! (Understandable leaving them square while it's WIP though)
Glad you didn't lose the source! (Reading about that reminded me to stick a .rmf of co_moira onto a cd!)
that or maybe I r eally should give a thought for finally buying an LCD monitor
Also, dynamic bounce was disabled on the last compile. I just wanted to see what it looked like but forgot to switch bounce back on.. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Half-Life allowing, I'll add stuff to the ductwork. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
To the immediate exits of the hive, I like the columns of yellow dotted light thingies. It's a nice effect that I think you should use elsewhere though the map. Those areas though are otherwise really dark, and while I wouldn't overlap that yellow light too much, there is a lot of blackness that could use light.
And the "wing" areas where you can look outside and see some big gun looking things, the "lit" side seems okay, but the side with all the sparks is way, way to dark. Again, no dynbounc probably hurts this area, but having strictly flashing light could give a person a headache (again, great atmospherically, but not so much gameplay wise). I'd add a few other spots of light to the area. Also, the ladder out of there can't be climbed by skulks... sort a pain. If there was a flush wall or something to climb otherwise it wouldn't be a problem.
The automatically opening doors I also found I could break... I moved in and out of their range fast enough to cause them to close instead of opening when I approached them. I can't recall how trigger_presence works off the top of my head, but I do know that with a couple extra entities you can control the state of the door better. Have the entry state of the trigger_presence target a trigger_relay. Have the trigger relay then target the door but have the trigger_relay's "trigger state" set to "ON". This way when someone enters, it'll ONLY open the door. Then have the door on a timer so it shuts itself. I dunno, the limited logic capabilities of the halflife engine make it hard to do this stuff reliably.
Also, since the last compile, I’ve added lights to the vents in each wing area and used color values 255 128 128 instead of 255 0 0 which seems to help A LOT in illuminating the area.
Also, in the mentioned area: added some detail to that blank wall area near the ladder. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
skulk climing issues with the ladder also fixed.
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/co_engineroom0015b.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Just jerking your chain here, so now you have to do some recompiles and play around with the lighting settings? To quote some cartoon from who the name escapes my mind (Eek the cat cavemen)
"When does the hurting stop!"
<a href="http://rapidshare.com/files/28135631/Depth_Charge.mp3.html" target="_blank">Depth Charge, from C&C</a>
<a href="http://rapidshare.com/files/28135704/Rain_in_the_Night.mp3.html" target="_blank">Rain in the Night, from C&C: Red Alert</a>
Hosted on Rapidshare.com FYI.
I'll try them out in the RR after work.
The first one sounds sort of like one of the songs I extracted from the original C&C source files long ago.
Updated:
<a href="http://www.aybnetwork.com/co_engineroom_BETA3.zip" target="_blank">BETA3</a>
Shown also are the cryogenics pods normally used for missions requiring extended travel times. They're designed to lower down when personnel enter and leave the pods. When in use or not in use, they're suspended from the center support structure to save on space.
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/engine_room_readyroom0005.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
<img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/yarrik71/engine_room_readyroom0006.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
make sure you fix all the places where players as marines can fall down and cant climb up again, some pipe areas and the generator things, if you havnt already!
keep up the good work!