That editor must require a monster computer; you're not only using in-game assets, but it needs to be prepared to load any available assets as well. It does look incredibly easy and cool though (road thing is cool, but the outside of those buildings looked unnecessarily reliant upon boxes...but then you see the inside and it's like, 'woot, pipe and realistic lighting!).
It really sucks how you need a monster computer to have remotely the same framerate as in the demo, but I think games shouldn't be limited by the average performance of current market computer, and instead it's the market that should follow the requirements. Obviously that's already how it is, the point being that complaining about crappy hardware is pretty redundant, as eventually everything becomes outdated.
<!--quoteo(post=1621765:date=Apr 18 2007, 07:07 PM:name=404NotFound)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(404NotFound @ Apr 18 2007, 07:07 PM) [snapback]1621765[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I love German engineering. All the extra back-end work to make the front-end silky smooth. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...<i>What?</i> Is that some kind of...Sexual innuendo or something?
<!--quoteo(post=1621767:date=Apr 18 2007, 08:09 PM:name=Omegaman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Omegaman @ Apr 18 2007, 08:09 PM) [snapback]1621767[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> ...<i>What?</i> Is that some kind of...Sexual innuendo or something? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Err.... no?
I'm just saying how most games have development tools that are very esoteric and clunked together to get the game out the door, but for some reason Crytek stuff always seems to be very well made, inside and out.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1621761:date=Apr 19 2007, 02:02 AM:name=Surge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Surge @ Apr 19 2007, 02:02 AM) [snapback]1621761[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Bah. The link won't load for me. Maybe YouTube is down. I'll post my thoughts once I get it working... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Same <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
It actually makes me sad. It's become so advanced and easy that you are no longer really <i>building</i> the level. It's all paint'n'place like an RTS editor and such. Plus the obvious reliance of everything moving to models created by other people.
<!--quoteo(post=1621837:date=Apr 18 2007, 11:46 PM:name=A_Boojum_Snark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(A_Boojum_Snark @ Apr 18 2007, 11:46 PM) [snapback]1621837[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It actually makes me sad. It's become so advanced and easy that you are no longer really <i>building</i> the level. It's all paint'n'place like an RTS editor and such. Plus the obvious reliance of everything moving to models created by other people. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it's not like it's built out of anything other than polygons (and voxels or something I think for the subtractive geometry in cliffs and caves). You can go in and do it the old fashioned way if you want.
I think the sad fact A boojum snark is trying to point out is level-designers and modelers are more or less starting to become each other. Especially as alot of what this fanstastic new engine looks like alot of models and simple click stuff. Hopefully there is a more technical side to explore aswell as the amazing visual abilities.
Just because most of the stuff ends up being made out of models doesn't mean level designers won't have anything to do. The most important things, like aesthetics, balance, performance, flow, and integration with the AI, sound, and other game elements are always going to be important, no matter how maps are made.
I was trying to make the opposite point that level-designers will have alot more to do as they now really need to learn modeling to progress their levels and make them more unique.
In my hunt for a game design job I've discovered that there is a marked difference between level designers and environment artists in the industry now. The environment artists are generally responsible for the actual look of levels, designing props and textures (not necessarily to a quality level, sometimes just enough to get the idea across for the more specialised artists to work from), and, well, the environment. Level designers are more focused on gameplay, scripting, and piecing together props / architecture such that they conform to the environment artist's work.
Since I don't have a job yet, I am not certain how this works exactly as I am sure level designers have creative freedom in their own rights, and environment artists have some gameplay design freedom...from what the guys at mapcore tell me, different companies expect different workflows from environment artists and level designers, and in some companies the difference between them is negligable. Naturally, the type of game, and the game engine, dictates a lot of how these roles are balanced. For example, a game like Quake4 might have an environment artist who designs the key features of a certain area of the game and then the level designers are free to create what they will using the environment artist's work as a guide; for a seperate game, the environment artist might put much more work into the environment at every stage of the way, once the level designer has worked on the basic layout/level features.
But there is definately a seperation of work requirements for 'level design' in the industry compared to 10 years ago; for games like Quake, Doom and Half-Life the level designers were probably environment artists themselves (definately for Quake and Doom), but with the huge overhead of model-prop requirements in games nowadays to keep them looking 'better' than the previous generation, the only solution other than having level designers spend twice as much time (and also requiring many more skills) is to split the workload amongst seperate specialising staff.
It's pretty disappointing for those who have so far been hobby-mappers, that they are finding their own creative freedom within level design being marred by pre-designed architecture and assets, but depending on the game, it isn't all so bad.
For Natural Selection 2 we are hoping to provide many props and materials which are somewhat ambiguous in their purpose, and also sets of props that can be strung together in creative ways, so when the NS2TR is available those using it won't feel restricted to using one prop for one purpose. Having said that, learning to model and texture is a huge bonus for new ideas. I think it is likely that at least one, and probably more, NS2 maps will have custom models designed specifically for that map; either designed/made by the mapper or else done by the NS2 staff once the map is deemed to be a great addition to the game.
Sorry, but the best map build editor ever was "Build" for Duke Nukem 3D. Those where the days. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" />
This looks so far ahead of current-gen that it makes me slightly sad for some reason. Logical next step I guess, there are already map editors that do most of the things shown. Just not all at once and improved.
...
I just hope the rest of the game lives up to the graphics.
That is an amazing piece of software, the only downsides I can see with it are having to learn how to make models if you want your map to look unique and having to buy a supercomputer to actually run the damn thing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
It makes me wonder what the ET:QW editor will be like...
<!--quoteo(post=1622568:date=Apr 23 2007, 06:21 AM:name=Kalessin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kalessin @ Apr 23 2007, 06:21 AM) [snapback]1622568[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It makes me wonder what the ET:QW editor will be like... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Obviously that's already how it is, the point being that complaining about crappy hardware is pretty redundant, as eventually everything becomes outdated.
I love German engineering. All the extra back-end work to make the front-end silky smooth.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...<i>What?</i> Is that some kind of...Sexual innuendo or something?
...<i>What?</i> Is that some kind of...Sexual innuendo or something?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Err.... no?
I'm just saying how most games have development tools that are very esoteric and clunked together to get the game out the door, but for some reason Crytek stuff always seems to be very well made, inside and out.
How dare YouTube fail...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, something must be up on the netz...
Bah. The link won't load for me. Maybe YouTube is down. I'll post my thoughts once I get it working...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
I wanna see this se*AHEM*x piece of software
... haha? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
It actually makes me sad. It's become so advanced and easy that you are no longer really <i>building</i> the level. It's all paint'n'place like an RTS editor and such. Plus the obvious reliance of everything moving to models created by other people.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it's not like it's built out of anything other than polygons (and voxels or something I think for the subtractive geometry in cliffs and caves). You can go in and do it the old fashioned way if you want.
Since I don't have a job yet, I am not certain how this works exactly as I am sure level designers have creative freedom in their own rights, and environment artists have some gameplay design freedom...from what the guys at mapcore tell me, different companies expect different workflows from environment artists and level designers, and in some companies the difference between them is negligable. Naturally, the type of game, and the game engine, dictates a lot of how these roles are balanced. For example, a game like Quake4 might have an environment artist who designs the key features of a certain area of the game and then the level designers are free to create what they will using the environment artist's work as a guide; for a seperate game, the environment artist might put much more work into the environment at every stage of the way, once the level designer has worked on the basic layout/level features.
But there is definately a seperation of work requirements for 'level design' in the industry compared to 10 years ago; for games like Quake, Doom and Half-Life the level designers were probably environment artists themselves (definately for Quake and Doom), but with the huge overhead of model-prop requirements in games nowadays to keep them looking 'better' than the previous generation, the only solution other than having level designers spend twice as much time (and also requiring many more skills) is to split the workload amongst seperate specialising staff.
It's pretty disappointing for those who have so far been hobby-mappers, that they are finding their own creative freedom within level design being marred by pre-designed architecture and assets, but depending on the game, it isn't all so bad.
For Natural Selection 2 we are hoping to provide many props and materials which are somewhat ambiguous in their purpose, and also sets of props that can be strung together in creative ways, so when the NS2TR is available those using it won't feel restricted to using one prop for one purpose. Having said that, learning to model and texture is a huge bonus for new ideas. I think it is likely that at least one, and probably more, NS2 maps will have custom models designed specifically for that map; either designed/made by the mapper or else done by the NS2 staff once the map is deemed to be a great addition to the game.
The Hexen engine was pretty fun too, as it had its own event scripting language so you could do mad crazy stuff in maps.
...
I just hope the rest of the game lives up to the graphics.
It makes me wonder what the ET:QW editor will be like...
It makes me wonder what the ET:QW editor will be like...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Radiant.