ns_machina
Merkaba
Digital Harmony Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
Digital Harmony Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester
<div class="IPBDescription">what do you think?</div>I haven't been following NS since 3.2 so I am still unsure how this map is received. I consider the map 'in my past' now but I like to check up on it and see how it is doing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
So then; do you like it? Do you dislike it? No matter your answer, I'd love to know why, and if you have any suggestions then if they are good enough (weighing time to implement against benefit) they may make their way into the next NS update <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Oh, and the secret room is a secret. It's so secret that you'll never find it.
So then; do you like it? Do you dislike it? No matter your answer, I'd love to know why, and if you have any suggestions then if they are good enough (weighing time to implement against benefit) they may make their way into the next NS update <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Oh, and the secret room is a secret. It's so secret that you'll never find it.
Comments
That being said, NS could use some more complicated maps to spice things up.
* atmosphere 10. Looks are freaking awsome. I got that old NS feeling again
* rine playability 7. (Enought corridors and places to shoot from. Good onos safe spots. etc
* kharaa playability. A swell 9. corners, darkness.. brilliant.
The names on the map and the shere aditions are so great. Ambient noice is done to a extent where its there to notice aswell as to ignore. The infestation (where ya can crawl in under a hive for example) is swell.
Both teams have a good chance to make it. Kharaa got enought darkness and corners and vents. Rines got plenty of PG en siege spots. Many names on the minimap make organising a raid much easier.
I think its currently the most brilliant map in the mapcycle and you did great.
So what I suggest is that you define the walls of the map with a white line (especially around the bottom hive vents. If you could make a larger minimap somehow, that would help.
Alot of people complain about the Marine Start because its a little hard for the marines to defend. I can't put my finger on what makes a good MS and what makes your MS not so great tho <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> .
Besides those 2 concerns, there is only 1, 3 letter word that can describe this map: "WOW". Beautiful map, plenty of interesting things to see, even after all this time. Its a great map overall, much better than the boring maps that we have now.
Great job, hope to see more!
Map navigation is what I perceive as the big flaw in machina; although every area is unique and so there's no chance of being lost through repetetivness, I think I went too far in the opposite direction - there are no visual guides that clearly line the major routes (other than the floor walkways). That, coupled with a layout that resembles a pile of twisted metal, comprimises the ability to learn and navigate the map easily. I suppose ns_hera didn't really have any guides either, but it was also a map that was not as connected as machina and had a more consistent style throughout (as well as clearly defined 'sections', ie maintenance, archiving and processing).
So in any future maps I make I will be keeping very much in mind that I should design the level on a 'road' basis; that the main routes should be clear and simple, or otherwise make it easier to tell how to move about the map.
but as already mentioned by previous posters, it's still hard to navigate through the map and imho the biggest flaw is the oversized marine start, which causes heavy fps drops at least for me and gives marines a hard time vs. fades/lerks especially in combination with the vents.
Moving the res tower and the nearby wall closer to the cc would maybe help to reduce overall size of marine start and making the vents weldable from the other side.
It just seems to big and... unnecessary. It takes a long time to memorize as opposed to tanith or even veil.
I don't like the middle spacey area. It's new, but it's pointless and annoying.
I wish the map were more streamlined, smaller and had vents that are simpler.
You could have some sort of radical cross-map ventilation system where aliens have mostly uninterrupted access to the 3 hives, although that may be cheesy. I always felt aliens could use another 'safe' node. Turning point and The Pit (pit moreso) are harder nodes to hold.
With turning point, marines have a vertical advantage to shoot the node, and any skulks coming from angel's\maus to defend it. The Pit node they can shoot from the elevated walkway from quite a distance, making it hard for aliens to get near them in time.
Possibly too many nodes too close to MS. If you count very close vicinity (and MS doesnt count), its 2 nodes. Slightly farther, and its 4. Most maps have 1 close, one/two a bit farther. So while Machina has 5 relatively easily cappable nodes, most maps have 3-4.
Eclipse has Stat, Tjunc and Triad;
Veil has Topo and West, then one/two of the outside nodes, depending on hive.
Tanith only really has double, and makes you work for everything else, but compensates by 'diving the map' with 5-5 nodes.
Lucid has Glare and Resid, then im not even sure.
See what i mean though? Rines seem to need to lose a node.
But aside from that, imo its the best ns map out.
just my opinion.
And it doesnt take me very long to learn it either...
It has some little problems (like weird textures, especially the monitors cut in the Barren), but this map has potential.
I like it, but it feels too... open in early minutes in Alien team. Marines could get Alien without die at some spots. I remember a game I had, I killed 8 skulks without die in the Central Node Descent. The map is way too complicated for newbies, but I enjoy huge ships <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
This map blown me away when I first played it, the 3D skybox is just awesome, and the hugeness of the map don't make it like veil/eclipse/tanith bleh bleh bleh.
Hehe, I see that you like huge evironments, no ? ^_^
I think this map could be better and better. I've written some things about your map in teh last thread about it (opinions and critisicms if I remember correctly), with some ideas you could get into the map.
So, finally, this map has great potential, and I'd be sad if the developers remove it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
PS : Sorry if i'm not explicit, but my English isn't as good as yours, but I hope I'm understandable ^_^
Also, the chances of the map being removed by developers is extremely small...I <i>am</i> a developer, for starters <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> The only reason it would be removed is if I ask for it to be (and there were moments when I was tempted to pull it out because of bad gameplay, but thankfully things worked out OK in the end).
I do think that its a strongly Marine-biased map even at 8v8. Because of the size I can't imagine attempting it with smaller teams and larger teams the Marines already hold a strong advantage... I definitely think the (somewhat late) change that opened up Circumn really gave the Marines a big boost since its another node they can hold most of the game.
As others have mentioned the Marines ability to hold many nodes, combined with the scale makes it JetPack paradise. I've had plenty of solid Alien wins on the map, but I think when teams are even the Marines are going to win the majority of the time based on how much res they can hold without much effort.
I used to have fps problems on the map before 3.2's official release, but those have apparently been fixed.
my main problem with the map right now is that i don't know it well enough yet, so i'm looking at my minimap half the time (which is a shame because the map is beautiful!)
The marine start at first seems pretty wide open, but I suspect that it actually might have too much cover for the aliens to use. I hate to say it, but lowering the res node platform and removing the pillars might be the best bet. My reasoning is that marines would like to have good line of sight to any critter in their base from any angle of the room. This might make the room "too big", like old versions of ms of ns_metal for example, so putting pillar like things near the exits might be better. The wide exit towards barren (particularly if you lowered that platform) might make the room seem "too open" as well. More tactically knowledgeable players may want to comment on this idea though.
Honestly though, my feeling is the games are pretty even so far, and so long as people keep playing it, I think the learning curve depression will be mitigated leaving a pretty well balanced map. All in all, while probably not as popular as de_dust...err...tanith, my experience has been that it's right there with maps like metal and lost on ye olde vote screen. Of course, I vote for it everytime it comes up!
And I've never so much as scrimed on it.
As the competitive scene is all but dead anyway, it's the pub experience that counts, and this map has great potential in my opinion.
Even now, months after 3.2 release, it's still in the "everybody still trying to learn their way around" stage. I recall a recent game on it when me and another player undertook an Indiana Jones-esque voyage that lead us underneath one of the hives where we almost managed to get a PG up. It was one of those cinematic moments of discovery and uncertainty that you can only have on a new map.
Once the map is known by enough players, I think it will become a favorite. But it has yet to reach that level in the pub sphere (or at least the pub sphere I know).
Yeah, I do love large environments : ]~ I just don't think a level feels so real unless it has a good mix of size scales, mostly just to put things in perspective. Like, if you lived in your house and all you could see were sky outside your windows, it wouldn't feel like a house; right? But give the outside a ground and things in the distance and foreground, then it starts having a greater presence in this virtual landscape.
Also, the chances of the map being removed by developers is extremely small...I <i>am</i> a developer, for starters <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> The only reason it would be removed is if I ask for it to be (and there were moments when I was tempted to pull it out because of bad gameplay, but thankfully things worked out OK in the end).
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Well you already know my feelings about this map. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
But I quoted the above because there's so very, very few mappers out there even in the professional industry who really pay attention to such immersive design attributes as entropy, subtle ambience, and perspective.
For aliens, you can always destroy a siege, because there a lots of vents.
I think the mpa is really good.