More 'Active' Commandermode abilities
SpaceJesus
Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29683Banned
Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29683Banned
<div class="IPBDescription">less boring upgrades please</div>Upgrades are cool and necessary and stuff, but they're boring as hell for commanders. Seriously, hoard res, click tech structure, click upgrade ..... wait 90s+ to get your upgrade.
I'd like to see more active commander abilities (eg med/ammopacks, obs scan etc) as opposed to passive abilities (high time/cost tech upgrades). Because basically - it's more fun. A good commander will be able to make use of the extra abilities to make more of an impact on the game than just spamming medpacks.
Because that's literally what you do as com, 80% of your time is spent hovering over your marines with the medpack key out, the other 20% is split between dropping structures, getting upgrades and listening for alien RTs/2nd hivedrop.
I'd also like to see a less linear tech tree for NS2, instead of having your advanced tech upgrades bottleneck at the armory, cut the upgrade tree down into smaller, cheaper upgrades - which will allow you to branch out the tech tree more and allow much more diverse strategies.
More earlygame strats can't be a bad thing.
I'd like to see more active commander abilities (eg med/ammopacks, obs scan etc) as opposed to passive abilities (high time/cost tech upgrades). Because basically - it's more fun. A good commander will be able to make use of the extra abilities to make more of an impact on the game than just spamming medpacks.
Because that's literally what you do as com, 80% of your time is spent hovering over your marines with the medpack key out, the other 20% is split between dropping structures, getting upgrades and listening for alien RTs/2nd hivedrop.
I'd also like to see a less linear tech tree for NS2, instead of having your advanced tech upgrades bottleneck at the armory, cut the upgrade tree down into smaller, cheaper upgrades - which will allow you to branch out the tech tree more and allow much more diverse strategies.
More earlygame strats can't be a bad thing.
Comments
Theres usually a fair bit for the comm to do tho: organize his marines, figure out a strategy, preempt meds, scan, survey for alien nodes.
Seriously, some of the best commanders since 3.0 just play the game like an RTS, they tell you exactly what to do, where to go, what to shoot, <b>all</b> the time. There shouldn't be a second where you don't know what the comm wants you to be doing.
But, further abilities could be pretty cool. Say, for 10 res (so its not cheap), a comm could do a <u>'Charge'</u>. It couldn't be placed where there are currently any players, and would do no damage; but it would 'fill an area' with a static sphere, only lasting maybe three seconds, and would perhaps require upgrading on the proto tech.
If it was balanced with high tech requirement, high cost, and low lifespan, something like that could turn out to be an awesome new ability.
The same concept could be used for a <u>temporary shield</u> (marines would be inside, can shoot out, but aliens cant get in... again for only like 3-5 seconds), <u>or</u> for a sphere that <u>slows that which is inside</u>, or anything.
So basically, if the model/animation/sounds were put in, you could use the same thing for a blocker, a shield, and/or a speed reducer.
Another idea could be a <u>personal phaser</u>. 'Phaser' meaning like the phase gates. It could either be something equipped on the marine (like a jetpack) to enable its use, or it could be used on anyone. Either way, it would require an upgrade, either after the AA, or on the proto.
I'd see it as costing 5-15 res, with a relatively small cooldown (5-15 seconds), and would only be for a distance around the marine's current position with a radius of... i dunno, not much, but enough to go from Chem rt to Acidic RT in tanith. If balanced in tech requirements, distance, and cost, it could be an awesome new ability. Not only for ninja'ing, but also for saving equipped marines in trouble, or just screwing with the aliens.
Another idea is a <u>grappling hook</u>. Its not a commander ability, but more of a new upgrade; tech it on probably the armory after the AA, hand them out for 5 res apiece, and they only get one use. Would be a great ninja tool, and a slight counter to alien's ability to use all architecture, without having to go all the way to jetpack.
Oh, and commanders already have far more 'active' abilities. Its called <u>Catpacks</u>. They are amazingly useful, horribly underused, and extremely potent when used properly. They obviously have their drawbacks (and hence ARE balanced), but overall they are phenomenal when properly used.
Further interactive abilities between commander and players could be fun too. I know the idea has sorta (?) been used before, but my take on <u>Nukes</u> would be more like Detpacks from TF. A player would be equipped with it, it could be expensive enough (20 res?), require 4 seconds to plant it, and then have a countdown of maybe 10 seconds.
In an attack on a hive, it would offer a new strategy besides siegeing or rushing; pushing in, killing the lifeforms, and defending the guy planted the nuke, and then defending the nuke itself. The nuke itself would perhaps have 1000 hp, and emit a small explosion when destroyed (rather than actually fully exploding). The full explosion, on the other hand, could do maybe just under the amount required to kill a hive, or 3/4s of a hive. As such, an entirely new way to take down a hive would be born, with much different gameplay. Suddenly spawncampers could be b****ed at for not bringing a nuke.
Another, more aesthetic addition to comm, could be to have <u>icons along the left side, for each marine</u>. Having one selected could even go into a <u>Picture-in-Picture of the marine's vision</u>; this should be relatively easy to do on Source, and would be an awesome, 'real future commander' effect. Seeing a marine in a firefight from above is one thing, but having both perspectives in view would be crazy.
Can you tell this is my first time to the NS2 suggestion forums? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
...and that i really enjoy commanding? hehe...
Quite the essay. Theres about 8 suggestions in there, i think.
And for the goddamn record, i've been playing NS for a very long time, been commanding 1 out of 3 games the entire time, was in CAL for over a year by starting my own team and practically joining a bunch of higher-ranking ones, and i've spent over a year building a massively ambitious NS map. I'm open to new approaches to strategy and tactics, and make a point of finding the pros and cons of them all. This led me to realize the true potential of catpacks. I do know the game, and I justify every position i make. Start justifying yours, and stop making things up in an attempt to fallaciously attack my arguments through ad hominem.
imo the fact that you're suggesting grappling hooks, nukes and personal teleporters just backs up my opinion that you really don't have a clue what you're talking about most of the time.
if you want to continue this feel free to PM me, otherwise get back on topic please.
I guess you're the type who, before there were Jetpacks, would have freaked out and called the guys an idiot for making up such a ridiculous marine ability?
So hey, I offered 5+ original ideas for more active commander abilities, with a good amount of theoretical balancing, and weighing of pros and cons. How many have you offered, seeing as how its your own thread?
It's like you're going to Valve and asking "lolz can we have a super-uber-gravity gun with nukes attached in HL3 please?".
If its safe to assume there is a commander, and he still has the ability to interact with his marines (duh?), then every suggestion i made is a potential addition.
So no, i'm not asking for a super-uber-gravity gun with nukes attached. Im putting forward ideas that are actually pretty balanced and thought out. They could be put into a version of the current NS, but it sounds like there will be next to no actual gameplay additions to HL1 NS again, though likely bugfixes and tweaks.
As such, they could be applied to NS2; since this is the I&S forums for NS2, and this thread is about ideas for expanding the commander's 'active' abilities, 'active' ability ideas were put forward.
I don't know why you're talking all this trash. Absolutely everything ive posted has been on-topic, or extremely close (extra upgrades arent exactly 'active abilities', but you did mention more tech). Why do you think that 'similar to ns' means NOT similar to ns?
Are you just mad because I put down your comment about commanding being boring? Because it is far from it, and you must be a horrible commander if you think so. A commander never has nothing to do.
And NEWS FLASH, try adding your own ideas here rather than attacking the people who do. This whole crap you're typing is turning ridiculously ironic, since this it was even you who made this thread.
If you're serious about what you just posted, then go back and edit your first message, saying: "DO NOT POST ACTUAL IDEAS. THERE IS NO NEED TO CONTINUE DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE WAYS OF DOING THIS. LOCK THIS PLEASE."
If you want to discuss specific suggestions for upgrades/abilites or "ACTUAL IDEAS" as you call them, feel free to post your own thread, I'd be delighted to provide feedback on them - but don't do it in this thread please.
e/ as for the "horrible commander" comment, evidently that's why I've brought a team who had never played competetive NS before, to being one of the strongest teams in ENSL Div3, in less than 6 weeks. Bravo sir. And yes, I do get bored when I com. Because it's easy.
The thread wasn't intended to generate "ACTUAL IDEAS" it was meant to discuss/suggest changes to the generic commander role and/or some of its basic tasks.
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I'd still like clarification on this. How do you suggest changes without offering... something that's new? The thread wasnt about changing the amount in a med pack. It was about giving the comm more active abilities. Taking one of my suggestions, where the comm could drop a temporary, area-of-effect shield; would that not be exactly the definition of a 'more active ability'?
I've come to the conclusion that SpaceJesus is afraid of new ideas... and that both of you like to argue (not that a constructive arguement is bad)...
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In SpaceJesus's defence, the whole point of the thread was that the commander right now consists of clicking research and hovering over marines (both of which are somewhat automatable), and he wanted to toss out the idea of adding more to the commander than that, and the ideas he got back were "more research and more hovering over marines waiting to drop a medpack" basically =\
And then he brought up catpacks for some reason
'Hovering over marines' is far from nothing. Placing and not placing a med means everything in TONS of battles. Same with cats. I brought up the 'shield spheres' etc cuz then the marine could very actively affect firefights.
How about this then. You know how RTs are placed? What if, like rt nodes, you had 'turret nodes', or other kinds of nodes. Turret nodes could be capped like an rt; a marine has to be nearby, the turret gets placed (probably on the ceiling), and then the marine marines it, or does the building on a console nearby on the floor.
Then, the comm actually clicks on the turret and becomes the turret. There would be no auto fire (or perhaps an added upgrade on the turret to give it minimal auto-fire). As such, the comm could literally start shooting in certain battles.
Is this something more akin to your original idea?
Imagine having all your CommTurrets in icons along the left; click on one, and a small window opens up, showing you the turret view; right-click on it to start using the turret, do all that, then right-click to get out of it and back into comm.
This is just an idea at how you could make it work. It would definitely take away from the comm's normal duties, which i dont agree with (comms should ALWAYS be busy, im really surprised anyone says otherwise), but this thread is about active comm abilities, so i'm tossing it out there.
<a href="http://www.tremors3movie.com/" target="_blank">Tremors</a>? (full trailers available there too, nice)
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No. I mean...the hives would burrow defensively when the comm shot off artillery. Aliens would remain on the surface.
Back on topic...The idea of taking over a turret would be kind of cool, but...just not worth it, really. Maybe instead of dropping the packs of mines for marines to place, the commander would simply place them himself, creating them via the nanogrid for X res.
Another modification to the current turrets would be a limited ammo supply. [backstory]Perhaps the reason why the turrets fire so slowly is because they have to conserve their ammo, so they shoot in bursts. [/backstory] The AI-controlled turrets would fire in the same way, but if a comm took control of a group of turrets, they would fire at "full speed", much like a chaingun (great for that annoying fade or onos trying to take down the TF). Of course, marines would need to service the turrets occasionally to reload them, for balance.
I also like the mine idea, but how would a comm place mines on walls if he only has a top down view?
Also, it would be cool if instead of taking over normal turrets, the comm could research turrets that were special, and were only active if the comm was controlling them.
I.E., at that research level 1, the "comm turret" could create a chaingun-type turret, essentially a LMG with an unlimited clip and slow turning speed. At higher levels, there could be a HMG turret, or a laser turret, or a GL-type turret, perhaps multiple turret control...
Maybe even a mobile tank that was remote controlled by the comm!
Maybe there could be two commanders, and two types of CCs - one for active abilities, such as controling turrets, etc, and the other for the "classic" NS comm'ing.