Something that shouldnt be silenced

SoulSteelSoulSteel Join Date: 2007-04-01 Member: 60544Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Balance</div>Now im probably not the only one thinking this escpecially the rest of us 2.0 alien lovers but ever since 3.0 i just cant stand to play ns any more. Its rediculous. The sg is so god like to the point the skulk is there by rendered as worthless. And what was the one thing to counter the sg? Redemption. And what happened to redemtion. It dosent work unless you escape. HOW ARE U SUPPOSE TO ESCAPE A SG?? i mean join in if any agrees with me but gameplay just isnt fair for the aliens without the upper lifeforms. And even the upper lifeforms have a hard time with the sg(except the onos which i agree is still to powerfull of a creature) but none the less it just isnt fun anymore to run around bite a guy then die instantly. Redemption was ment to counter the sg by getting you away and alive quickly so they cant fire off another round at you. but now the Redempt has been handicapped it just doesnt work anymore. And not only are the marines overpowered now they are also over armored. It takes a skulk 3X as long to kill a marine then it takes a marine to kill a skulk. Wheres the fun in this anymore? its all became a big marine overpower and the only way to combat it is with onos or fleeing tatics. Anyone else agree with me or am i just the only alien player on the forums?
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Comments

  • EmanonEmanon Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16254Members, Constellation
    edited April 2007
    Actually the SG is the counter to Redemption, as it is suppose to reduce the hp of the life form fast enough (1 shell) prior to redempting.

    If you encounter a SGer wait for others to help or go hit RTs.
  • IsamilIsamil Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23552Members, Constellation
    I fail to see how redemption could ever be considered a counter to the shotgun.
    Actually I think the question is, why would you ever get redemption as a skulk?

    How to deal with a shotgun: As skulk
    1. Ambush. And by ambush I mean find a spot that lets you get really close to a marine, preferably above or behind him.
    2. Come from behind when he's distracted
    3. Learn to dodge fire. Go around the marine, over the marine, whatever.
    4. Bunnyhop. Probably not going to work if you come straight at him.
    5. Use a distraction. <-this is important. A distraction can be-a fade, a gorge, another skulk.


    I would go through your post and point out everything that's wrong with it, but that would take too long.
  • ChocolateChocolate The Team Mascot Join Date: 2006-10-31 Member: 58123Members
    I kinda agree that the SG is a little to strong towards skulks, but I dont mind, skulks arent suppoded to come running into a marine right infront of him anyway <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
  • SoulSteelSoulSteel Join Date: 2007-04-01 Member: 60544Members
    well guys lets not deviate from the main topic. The marines are far overpowered and the new aliens are underpowered. It shouldnt take an alien longer to kill a marine. The marine (in 2.0) objective was to keep the aliens at gun range, and the alien objective was to get in close and attack. ever since 3.0 now the marines now have close AND long range abilities while the alien close range abilities have been reduced due to armor increases. Yes tatics do play a role but how hard is it to turn around and shoot 1 round into a skulk with an sg? not very. Now how hard is it to get in 4 bites to a dude with an sg while ur bites are well timed out and ur dodgeing close range sg shots.... yea... what im trying to say here is that ns has stripped the aliens of there prime ability and given it to the marines. While i do use skulk refrences alot that is because what creature do aliens usually spend most of there time in at bg? well duh its a skulk. So if marines have ADV at BG then how are the aliens going to get there higher forms so they stand a chance? I like 2.0 alot because it was well balanced. It was just as easy to shoot a skulk out but it wasent so unsusally hard to kill a marine. 2 bites did it in the last game now its like 4 at bg. Thats alot to ask of a skulk when it takes only 3 secs worth of fire to kill a skulk. O and if someone gets bored type a list of the balance chart like ( shotgun=redempt Onos=Jetpack HMG=Fade gl=oc chamber ect...
  • IsamilIsamil Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23552Members, Constellation
    I'm pretty sure that shotguns aren't new to 3.0...infact they got nerfed at some point when they added random spread.

    also, a skulk shouldn't be able to beat a shotgun. 10 res vs skulk, 10 res wins. Try adding a team.

    PS-paragraphs and spaces are cool!
  • PetcoPetco Join Date: 2003-07-27 Member: 18478Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1618275:date=Apr 1 2007, 08:05 PM:name=Chocolate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chocolate @ Apr 1 2007, 08:05 PM) [snapback]1618275[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    I kinda agree that the SG is a little to strong towards skulks, but I dont mind, skulks arent suppoded to come running into a marine right infront of him anyway <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Everything is strong against skulks.


    Skulks do not really upgrade at all, they will always be easy to kill and they will be easier to kill once you get weapons/armors upgrade.

    A vanilla marine will always be pretty useful, because vanilla marines can easily kill skulks and of course in teams take out even higher lifeforms.


    Skulks in teams get blasted from grenades and all die.
  • SmoodCrooznSmoodCroozn Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1618242:date=Apr 1 2007, 05:10 PM:name=Isamil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Isamil @ Apr 1 2007, 05:10 PM) [snapback]1618242[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    I fail to see how redemption could ever be considered a counter to the shotgun.
    Actually I think the question is, why would you ever get redemption as a skulk?

    How to deal with a shotgun: As skulk
    1. Ambush. And by ambush I mean find a spot that lets you get really close to a marine, preferably above or behind him.
    2. Come from behind when he's distracted
    3. Learn to dodge fire. Go around the marine, over the marine, whatever.
    4. Bunnyhop. Probably not going to work if you come straight at him.
    5. Use a distraction. <-this is important. A distraction can be-a fade, a gorge, another skulk.
    I would go through your post and point out everything that's wrong with it, but that would take too long.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    1. Laugh.
    2. Marines have these things called "ears".
    3. Tell me how dodging players like Makalevi goes. Oh and show me how to dodge a player who can actually fire a pistol.
    4. If you have enough room to bunnyhop such as veil, chances are the room is clear enough for them to pistol you. And if there isn't, well, you wouldn't be hopping anyway.
    5. Ha. ha. Let's see how long "another skulk" lasts as a distraction.

    I can skulk, but your suggestions are either a joke or you only play combat.
  • TrueVeritasTrueVeritas Join Date: 2006-10-20 Member: 58082Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1618311:date=Apr 2 2007, 07:14 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 2 2007, 07:14 AM) [snapback]1618311[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    1. Laugh.
    2. Marines have these things called "ears".
    3. Tell me how dodging players like Makalevi goes. Oh and show me how to dodge a player who can actually fire a pistol.
    4. If you have enough room to bunnyhop such as veil, chances are the room is clear enough for them to pistol you. And if there isn't, well, you wouldn't be hopping anyway.
    5. Ha. ha. Let's see how long "another skulk" lasts as a distraction.

    I can skulk, but your suggestions are either a joke or you only play combat.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Are you mentally challenged? Isamil is 100 percent correct. It hurts my brain to think there are still people like you on these forums.

    By the way, if all these suggestions are stupid, and you 'can skulk', tell us, wise smoodcroozn, how can we better our skulk?
  • SmoodCrooznSmoodCroozn Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1618313:date=Apr 2 2007, 12:26 AM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TrueVeritas @ Apr 2 2007, 12:26 AM) [snapback]1618313[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Are you mentally challenged? Isamil is 100 percent correct. It hurts my brain to think there are still people like you on these forums.

    By the way, if all these suggestions are stupid, and you 'can skulk', tell us, wise smoodcroozn, how can we better our skulk?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Perhaps you might be, since your the one with the brain getting hurt?

    I think this is helpful.<!--QuoteBegin-GoldenFox+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GoldenFox)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I sure hope you wrote this post before you read mine right above it.

    We all know you can't be everywhere at once. So you have to prioritize. Instead of wandering around the map wondering where the marines are, use your map. From your map, you should be able to tell where the marines are, where they're trying to go, and where your teammates aren't keeping an eye out. Get to where you'll be most effective before you're needed there. This is where what everyone else is saying comes in. Preventative measures are they best. But when you're not able to prevent something from happening you need to make a choice.

    Your first option is to try to get the marines out of that area by rushing in and killing them. Most often, you can't do this by yourself. So you need to communicate with your teammates and attack at the same time, not one after another. If this doesn't work the first try, you'll probably lose the node.

    Your second option is to force the marines to leave by attacking elsewhere on the map. Most notably their base. Base rushes are sometimes the best way to get marines out of important areas. This is effective even when marines have phase tech. It becomes less effective when they get motion, but it can still work.

    All of this comes from experience. That doesn't mean doing the same thing repeatedly no matter if it works or not. It means trying different things under different circumstances and evaluating their effectiveness. Once you do this enough, you can predict which tactic will be the most effective. Eventually, if you're uber, you can tell which tactic you're going to have to use before the game even starts, just by recognizing who is on the other team.

    So, in order to prevent games from ending in the first few minutes, a balance change is not necessary. Education of pub players would be the most effective means of solving this problem. When pub players refuse to listen to people who have more experience than they do, another issue arises. Educating public players become extremely difficult. That's the real issue here. An issue that I simply don't have a solution for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But you know it's like telling someone how to aim.
  • TrueVeritasTrueVeritas Join Date: 2006-10-20 Member: 58082Members
    I want to hear, in your own words, smoodcroozn, what you would do differently than what Isamil said.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    edited April 2007
    Skulks or sg:s haven't changed a bit in the latest versions, I believe. I can't even remember how things worked in 2.0, but sg had 10 shots back then, right? Skulk hp was almost the same.

    Once again clanning marines are still a bit underpowered at lower levels, I believe. Even I can gun down 3 bhopping skulks as long as they rush down a long hallway and I've got enought time to fire three times. Still its a pain to take out even a single rt with 2 lmg:s and a shotty if the alien team has even a bit of teamwork. Pubbing is different, but you might get you some idea how much potential early game aliens have. Most of the time para and spore would help a lot, but half of the server just keeps rushing long hallways. Of course I haven't seen any American servers, but I don't believe they're much better.
  • SmoodCrooznSmoodCroozn Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
    I would do exactly what SoulSteel said. If a guy with a shotgun is shanking my RT, building at my hive or shooting my teammates, I would fling myself at them, bite ravenously and hope they die.

    I hope you weren't expecting a fancy response. Like I said, just like aiming, see target, move crosshair over it and fire.
  • DuoGodOfDeathDuoGodOfDeath Join Date: 2002-08-01 Member: 1044Members
    This is how you beat Marines as a Skulk. Camp in random places where they usually don't look. Camp in places where you will get the upper hand over the Marine. Camp in a place where you'll at least get a parasite and a bite in and hopefully your teammate can get the last bite. Parasite a Marine and camp in some place a little distance away from where you parasited him originally and hope he comes near you. Bunny hop with silence and destroy 3-5 Marines because pubbers are deaf.

    My tactics usually tend to work. I have a few others I could list but most people can't even do the 1st one I listed.
  • UnderwhelmedUnderwhelmed DemoDetective #?&#33; Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58026Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    I can skulk, but your suggestions are either a joke or you only play combat.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=1618322:date=Apr 2 2007, 12:39 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 2 2007, 12:39 AM) [snapback]1618322[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    If a guy with a shotgun is shanking my RT, building at my hive or shooting my teammates, I would fling myself at them, bite ravenously and hope they die.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wow, I just had a moment of cognitive dissonance...
  • TrueVeritasTrueVeritas Join Date: 2006-10-20 Member: 58082Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1618322:date=Apr 2 2007, 07:39 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 2 2007, 07:39 AM) [snapback]1618322[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    If a guy with a shotgun is shanking my RT, building at my hive or shooting my teammates, I would fling myself at them, bite ravenously and hope they die.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Honestly, are you serious about that? If you aren't, I really can't detect the sarcasm. But REALLY, take a second here and look over Isamil's post, he's got skulking nailed down. Theres plenty of people that would be glad to help you improve your skill, please take a moment and consider it.
  • highhigh Join Date: 2006-11-20 Member: 58679Members
    edited April 2007
    Parasite is <!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->CLEARY<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> the skulk's counter to the marine's shotgun.
  • SpaceJesusSpaceJesus Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29683Banned
    <3 these threads. IBTL!
  • SoulSteelSoulSteel Join Date: 2007-04-01 Member: 60544Members
    edited April 2007
    <!--quoteo(post=1618297:date=Apr 2 2007, 05:31 AM:name=Petco)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petco @ Apr 2 2007, 05:31 AM) [snapback]1618297[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Everything is strong against skulks.
    Skulks do not really upgrade at all, they will always be easy to kill and they will be easier to kill once you get weapons/armors upgrade.

    A vanilla marine will always be pretty useful, because vanilla marines can easily kill skulks and of course in teams take out even higher lifeforms.
    Skulks in teams get blasted from grenades and all die.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    As this guy says skulks have no good abilities vs the rines. So if the rines have adv and the aliens cant get res towers bg (or points for you combat) then how are we suppose to fight back. The skulk is the basic unit and if the basic unit is crippled then all others will hard to obtain (unless ur a worthless res stacker and dont contribute any rts or chambers to the team)

    The thing is the aliens are suppose to excel at close range and the rines are suppose to be long range. Now that the sg is somehow long range and close range (i know ive been on BOTH sides of the gun and i dont like it) and also that the sg is an earlly addon to the rines, this really cripples the aliens forcing them to nothing but stealth tatics(which are easly removed by scan). Anyone else agree with me or am i the only alien player on the forum?

    <!--quoteo(post=1618242:date=Apr 2 2007, 12:10 AM:name=Isamil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Isamil @ Apr 2 2007, 12:10 AM) [snapback]1618242[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    I fail to see how redemption could ever be considered a counter to the shotgun.
    Actually I think the question is, why would you ever get redemption as a skulk?

    How to deal with a shotgun: As skulk
    1. Ambush. And by ambush I mean find a spot that lets you get really close to a marine, preferably above or behind him.
    2. Come from behind when he's distracted
    3. Learn to dodge fire. Go around the marine, over the marine, whatever.
    4. Bunnyhop. Probably not going to work if you come straight at him.
    5. Use a distraction. <-this is important. A distraction can be-a fade, a gorge, another skulk.
    I would go through your post and point out everything that's wrong with it, but that would take too long.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ok now to adress Ismails quote (and ish if ya know me then me calling you ish will tell you who i am)

    While ish may be right in some of his points ill go over all of them

    1.Yes ambush does work but Armor now prevents that. And ambush by word is defined by attack and quickly retreat. With the new armor ups this tatic will either get you killed or will get you no kills.

    2.Yes comming from behind will help but only a noob wont either hear a skulk or not turn around and spazz when hes is bit. And as i stated earlyer it takes only 3 secs of fire (or less depending on gun lvl) to kill a skulk and it takes an early game 4 bites to kill them. *yes there is parasite so then 3*

    3.Learn how to dodge fire... more like find someone who cant aim.. if u can survive getting close to a rine in 3.0 then he DOES deserve to die.

    4.Bunnyhop slows you down so this is a contradictory of 3. and yet again only people who cant aim cant hit a jumping skulk,

    5.Use a distraction. Yes there is the famous kill while reloading but now with the new supped up knife it dosent take long to pull it out and kill a skulk close range. (ive done it on both sides it works) Not only that but your "disctraction" will mostlikely die and feed the enemy. Which is a bad idea. And yes ish go through my type up and point out all of the mistakes id like to contradict them too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
  • MrMakaveliMrMakaveli Join Date: 2004-05-06 Member: 28509Members
    Just be happy the SG isn't as strong as it should be. If hitreg wasn't so garbage in this game 1 sg would win the game EVERY SINGLE TIME.
  • F4tManMGS2F4tManMGS2 Join Date: 2004-04-10 Member: 27842Members
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So if the rines have adv and the aliens cant get res towers bg (or points for you combat) then how are we suppose to fight back<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    you're supposed to lose if you don';t have res towers.

    there are good upgrades for skulk: focus, silence or celerity, and carapce.
  • TheAdjTheAdj He demanded a cool forum title of some type. Join Date: 2004-05-03 Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited April 2007
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1.Yes ambush does work but Armor now prevents that. And ambush by word is defined by attack and quickly retreat. With the new armor ups this tatic will either get you killed or will get you no kills.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Armor isn't something new that was introduced recently, its always been around, so saying "Armor now prevents that" is a bit pointless. Before armor 1, a parasite and 2 bites does the job, its that simple. Before the 7-8 minute mark or so, it is unlikely it will take more than 3 bites to kill a marine (barring medpacks). Ambushing is surprising the enemy, not attacking and running away (thats a raid). Ambushing is the primary method of attacking marines, as running in is fairly likely to get you instantly killed.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2.Yes comming from behind will help but only a noob wont either hear a skulk or not turn around and spazz when hes is bit. And as i stated earlyer it takes only 3 secs of fire (or less depending on gun lvl) to kill a skulk and it takes an early game 4 bites to kill them. *yes there is parasite so then 3*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Even if you were to just run up to a marine, its entirely likely they won't hear you (most people have tunnel vision and don't really pay attention to anything else). Using the +walk key is more intelligent, or get silence with MC chambers. Comparing firing time here is irrelevant (and your numbers are wrong entirely) so I won't bother talking about that. Ambushing and direction of attack are the way to kill marines as a skulk.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3.Learn how to dodge fire... more like find someone who cant aim.. if u can survive getting close to a rine in 3.0 then he DOES deserve to die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There are players in this game which are near invincible as skulk because they are extremely good at dodging fire. Running in straight lines is not dodging, neither is running straight up a wall. Watch some demos of people in the competitive section, it'll help you out in this department.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4.Bunnyhop slows you down so this is a contradictory of 3. and yet again only people who cant aim cant hit a jumping skulk,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Bunnyhopping is far faster than running, so you are doing it incorrectly or do not understand what bunnyhopping is. Jumping around while moving is not bunnyhopping (this is what most players do). Most public server players find it difficult to track a max speed bunnyhopping skulk, while a competitive player will probably kill you in about 20 bullets. Bhopping is normally used to speed movement around the map or for short bursts of speed, not a primary attack method (although it can work this way in certain instances or en masse).

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5.Use a distraction. Yes there is the famous kill while reloading but now with the new supped up knife it dosent take long to pull it out and kill a skulk close range. (ive done it on both sides it works) Not only that but your "disctraction" will mostlikely die and feed the enemy. Which is a bad idea. And yes ish go through my type up and point out all of the mistakes id like to contradict them too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Killing someone while they reload is not using a distraction, that's using situational advantage. Killing someone due to a distraction would be having a lerk fly around and get a marine's attention, then glide jump around the corner and kill him. The knife has not been changed in terms of lethality or ease of selection (lol) ever as far as I know, so I have no clue what you are talking about. It is far easier to lastinv to the pistol and drop a skulk with the pistol than it is to pull out a knife and somehow get 3-4 swipes on a skulk. Skulks are not meant to 1v1 marines and win in every instance, they're meant to delay marines until larger lifeforms appear. You seem to not understand this, nor understand most of the basic game numbers or mechanics. Before you say something as bold as "Post again so I can point out all your mistakes," please attempt to have the correct information.

    Also, from your original post, you state that the shotgun is better in 3.0. The shotgun in 2.0 DOMINATED skulks, you had to be rather bad at the game to not kill skulks with a shotgun in 2.0. The current 3.2 version is rather nerfed in comparison due to skulk hitbox changes from 2.0 to 3.0 and shotgun spread adjustments in 3.0.
  • GoldenGolden Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31169Members, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    Yay, another post to dissect.

    <!--quoteo(post=1618412:date=Apr 2 2007, 01:10 PM:name=SoulSteel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SoulSteel @ Apr 2 2007, 01:10 PM) [snapback]1618412[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    As this guy says skulks have no good abilities vs the rines. So if the rines have adv and the aliens cant get res towers bg (or points for you combat) then how are we suppose to fight back. The skulk is the basic unit and if the basic unit is crippled then all others will hard to obtain (unless ur a worthless res stacker and dont contribute any rts or chambers to the team)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Skulks are useful throughout the game as well. They don't really risk anything by rushing in. They get around the map fast, and, with parasite, give the whole alien team the equivalent of a wallhack. So don't tell me that skulks are crippled.


    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The thing is the aliens are suppose to excel at close range and the rines are suppose to be long range. Now that the sg is somehow long range and close range (i know ive been on BOTH sides of the gun and i dont like it) and also that the sg is an earlly addon to the rines, this really cripples the aliens forcing them to nothing but stealth tatics(which are easly removed by scan). Anyone else agree with me or am i the only alien player on the forum?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The shotgun is pretty bad at long range. It got nerfed in a previous version as well, 3.0 I think, with a randomized spray pattern. Before that you could shotty snipe from pretty much the same range as an lmg with full damage.

    I'm not sure where you're trying to go with mentioning the scans since they're very underused. Besides, scan covers such a small area that its not very hard to vacate the area and come back when it expires in a few seconds.


    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1.Yes ambush does work but Armor now prevents that. And ambush by word is defined by attack and quickly retreat. With the new armor ups this tatic will either get you killed or will get you no kills.

    2.Yes comming from behind will help but only a noob wont either hear a skulk or not turn around and spazz when hes is bit. And as i stated earlyer it takes only 3 secs of fire (or less depending on gun lvl) to kill a skulk and it takes an early game 4 bites to kill them. *yes there is parasite so then 3*

    3.Learn how to dodge fire... more like find someone who cant aim.. if u can survive getting close to a rine in 3.0 then he DOES deserve to die.

    4.Bunnyhop slows you down so this is a contradictory of 3. and yet again only people who cant aim cant hit a jumping skulk,

    5.Use a distraction. Yes there is the famous kill while reloading but now with the new supped up knife it dosent take long to pull it out and kill a skulk close range. (ive done it on both sides it works) Not only that but your "disctraction" will mostlikely die and feed the enemy. Which is a bad idea. And yes ish go through my type up and point out all of the mistakes id like to contradict them too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    First off, armor 0 is two bites and a parasite to kill. Armor 1 is three bites, so you should get your information straight. When Ishamil said to learn how to dodge fire, this means at close range. Its pretty easily accomplished by strafing around your target.

    How does bunnyhopping slow you down? Bunnyhopping is the fastest method of traveling for either side. Again, not sure where you're going here.

    Bite range is farther than knife range. You can back away and walk forward and bite, then back away again. I've no idea what you mean about the "new supped up knife" as I don't recall any knife changes since 2.0. If a gorge keeps moving and healspraying, they become an excellent distraction and have a fairly low risk of dying if the skulks act quick enough.
  • KainTSAKainTSA Join Date: 2005-05-30 Member: 52831Members, Constellation
    Bottom line is:

    Certain matchups aren't supposed to be fair. Onos versus 1 LMG marine isn't going to be an even matchup either but that doesn't mean we should nerf onos. As was said, skulk=free. Shotty=10 res.

    And skulks are useful throughout the game, even with teched up marines. You just have to change your tactics and upgrades as the game progresses. For example, focus skulk (with leap) is an AMAZING counter to JPs.
  • IsamilIsamil Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23552Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1618311:date=Apr 2 2007, 03:14 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Apr 2 2007, 03:14 AM) [snapback]1618311[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    1. Laugh.
    2. Marines have these things called "ears".
    3. Tell me how dodging players like Makalevi goes. Oh and show me how to dodge a player who can actually fire a pistol.
    4. If you have enough room to bunnyhop such as veil, chances are the room is clear enough for them to pistol you. And if there isn't, well, you wouldn't be hopping anyway.
    5. Ha. ha. Let's see how long "another skulk" lasts as a distraction.

    I can skulk, but your suggestions are either a joke or you only play combat.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    1.ambushing is worthless. we need to run at the marines because it's the only way we could ever get near them.
    2.aliens have this thing called walk. they also have this thing called silence. and they also have this think called cloaking. I would mention ambushes from behind but they're worthless.
    3. leap? A.Not everyone is Makalevi B. Dodging, combined with steps 1-5, might actually work.
    4.You don't need anywhere near veil size hallways to bunnyhop.
    5. well, if you ambush while using the other skulk, you might win.

    I played a lot of combat yesterday for TG's April Fools joke where they played only combat and seige. Otherwise, no, not really.

    PS-are you for real or are you just trolling?
  • MrMakaveliMrMakaveli Join Date: 2004-05-06 Member: 28509Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1618470:date=Apr 2 2007, 03:14 PM:name=Golden)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Golden @ Apr 2 2007, 03:14 PM) [snapback]1618470[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    I'm not sure where you're trying to go with mentioning the scans since they're very underused.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So true. I don't comm much, but almost every time I do, I end up getting 2-3 obs for scans even when aliens don't have SC. Scans are very powerful and I suggest you comms out there try to use them more.
  • LaggasaurusLaggasaurus Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22773Members, NS1 Playtester
    Scan on sg push from chem to acidic = win.
  • EmanonEmanon Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16254Members, Constellation
    edited April 2007
    Timing, anticipation and deception is everything, a good ambush spot is nothing if you drop at the wrong time or make too much noise getting there.


    <!--quoteo(post=1618330:date=Apr 2 2007, 03:56 AM:name=high)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(high @ Apr 2 2007, 03:56 AM) [snapback]1618330[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Parasite is <!--coloro:#CC0000--><span style="color:#CC0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->CLEARY<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> the skulk's counter to the marine's shotgun.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    A parasited shotguner is much easier to take down as their movements and direction will be known.

    <!--quoteo(post=1618445:date=Apr 2 2007, 03:22 PM:name=MrMakaveli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrMakaveli @ Apr 2 2007, 03:22 PM) [snapback]1618445[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Just be happy the SG isn't as strong as it should be. If hitreg wasn't so garbage in this game 1 sg would win the game EVERY SINGLE TIME.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Damn Mak, didnt know you had reg problems on every shot.....exaggeration is ok, to an extent.

    A scan when something needs to be built is key, this way everyone can build while not having to cover multiple entry ways. Makes for quick seigeing, too bad most players dont know this.
  • HarrowerHarrower Join Date: 2005-03-16 Member: 45478Members
    I've always felt that skulks should have abilities that screw with the marine's ability to fire in combat. This isn't because of balance, it's because of realism. If a skulk has your... leg in its jaws, you can't shoot it as well as you could across a room. Every time I see a skulk bhopping toward me or bropping on me from above, I think "man, I'm toast" and then "oh wait, it's ns, being bitten has no effect on my ability to fight".

    It just seems like skulks should have a form of grapple or disarm or even disable. Remember AvP? How the alien would tail swipe someone and it stunned them temporarily? Something like that, but more to do with its jaws.

    Just an opinion.
  • Rapier7Rapier7 Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
    I still say skulks are just weak in comparison to the vanilla marine in the vast majority of situations. It's not the shotgun's fault. HMGs rape skulks even harder.
  • ChocolateChocolate The Team Mascot Join Date: 2006-10-31 Member: 58123Members
    edited April 2007
    <!--quoteo(post=1618412:date=Apr 2 2007, 01:10 PM:name=SoulSteel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SoulSteel @ Apr 2 2007, 01:10 PM) [snapback]1618412[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    1.Yes ambush does work but Armor now prevents that. And ambush by word is defined by attack and quickly retreat. With the new armor ups this tatic will either get you killed or will get you no kills.

    2.Yes comming from behind will help but only a noob wont either hear a skulk or not turn around and spazz when hes is bit. And as i stated earlyer it takes only 3 secs of fire (or less depending on gun lvl) to kill a skulk and it takes an early game 4 bites to kill them. *yes there is parasite so then 3*

    3.Learn how to dodge fire... more like find someone who cant aim.. if u can survive getting close to a rine in 3.0 then he DOES deserve to die.

    4.Bunnyhop slows you down so this is a contradictory of 3. and yet again only people who cant aim cant hit a jumping skulk,

    5.Use a distraction. Yes there is the famous kill while reloading but now with the new supped up knife it dosent take long to pull it out and kill a skulk close range. (ive done it on both sides it works) Not only that but your "disctraction" will mostlikely die and feed the enemy. Which is a bad idea. And yes ish go through my type up and point out all of the mistakes id like to contradict them too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    First off, MUCH better than smoothcroozn's analysis <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    My opinion in general about Isamil's 5 points and these 5 in general:
    1. Ambush is VERY VERY effective. My skulking gets MANY times better with using ambush. The sole problem is the amour. Early game is no problem, but once A2 gets up or even A1 goes up, ambushing is MUCH harder. Skulks become nearly useless late game with HMG's/HA except for cannon fodder (heh).

    2. Coming from behind works VERY well, but it usually only works in conjuction with ambushing or with silence. This is still in the same category as ambushing.

    3. Dodging fire is beyond me in terms of skill requirements, so no comment.

    4. Same as #3

    5. This one is a good one and misinterpreted. Distraction doesnt mean the friend of your has to die, it just means that to WORK TOGETHER. If there is 2 skulks ambushing a marine, each skulk uses the other as a distraction to the marine. Even if you were to have your friend die as is misconceived, well that ain't so much of a problem.

    You will get the RFK from the marine which helps more the aliens than the marines. You also take that marine out of combat, which disables him from being able to kill 2 other aliens, putting up a surprise PG or getting more economy for the marines. Also, what takes a marine 45 seconds to get to a position only takes a skulk a fraction of that time, especially with use of vents.

    It's like a game of domino's, each action has a reaction and a re-reaction and a re-re-reaction.... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

    PS: This was more of a ramble than anything else, no prize winning essay here. I also say <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> to CAPSLOCK!
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