Even MORE CS style gameplay in NS2 than in Combat?
bassport
Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25656Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25656Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">After I saw the code snippet in the blog...</div>I was a bit shocked to see this code snippet posted on the blog:
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/blog/NS2-lua-armory.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Doesn't it mean that EVERYONE can buy weapons for himself and the commander can't do anything about it?! Where the f**** is this going?! Or am I reading the signs wrong?
<img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/blog/NS2-lua-armory.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
Doesn't it mean that EVERYONE can buy weapons for himself and the commander can't do anything about it?! Where the f**** is this going?! Or am I reading the signs wrong?
Comments
Calm down, I think that was an example script, or was it?
Well, I would prefer to have such options in a new combat mode in NS, no more popupmenu, but your armory counts 8-)
They should add an if-then statement that slaps you if you open the menu and then close it without buying anything, just for some laughs anyways.
The great thing about using scripts like this is that adding this feature is a 20 line code change that we can add/remove while we are play testing, without even needing everyone to reconnect to the server. Our hope is that the ability to iterate real fast with ideas like this will allow us to make the game a whole lot better.
Max
Just remember that anyone who shares the same view as the thread start will hate NS2 no matter what. For the same reason that CS1.6 players hate CS:S- the new version will be disliked because it isn't the old version.
Same can be said about being a skulk... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Not sure about the change, just depends how its handled. Dont think i'd like to see armys of hmg/shotty marines all the time once theyre available.
"loanpack plz comm kthx"
Joking aside, if the comm could restrict what the marines chose so you don't have people trying to buy hmg/gls when you're trying to shotgun rush a hive the system couldwork quite well. Usually it is better for a marine to have the gun he/she feels most comfortable with but not always. It could also prevent a lot of greifing, maybe even giving the comm the ability to lock out specific players.
giving every marine access to the community respool is a bad idea, it opens up for greifers to ruin the team, and ignorant people to do the same. if something like this were to be implemented, i think each marine should have their own little bit of res. maybe something like personal rfk, then instead of the commander dropping weapons he could drop respacks for those who join lategame and cant get a kill.
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It's a good idea. With this a little menu with the list of players could be added so the commander can just select which one he wants to hand out the res/health/ammo to. In the current NS such a menu would be more confusing because the commander would still need to know their location since weapons can only be given when they're near the armory. If it's just allocated res then that can be done anywhere and it would be up to the marines to get their ###### to the armory.
Please please please for the love of christ don't make guns buyable. Don't turn NS into Counterstrike with aliens. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
The great thing about using scripts like this is that adding this feature is a 20 line code change that we can add/remove while we are play testing, without even needing everyone to reconnect to the server. Our hope is that the ability to iterate real fast with ideas like this will allow us to make the game a whole lot better.
Max
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I'd just like to add a little quip about the scripting system....
It's bloody brilliant.
Even if a user never ever in a million years takes a look at it, it's still an example of my favorite method of application design.
I love breaking a problem down into many many tiny little parts, with the eventual outcome that you can do complex tasks with simple function calls.
I know it seems pretty obvious, but you don't know how many classmates I've seen hammering away at huge functions, if they even use functions at all.
Having taken courses in computer science from hardware design to assembler to high-level programming, it just amazes me the elegence of such a scripting language. How many layers of translation it goes through, how many trees of functions and subroutines even a single line of text can call.
Keeps a code monkey warm at night.
rifle, shotgun, flame, demo
Then the commander unlocks upgrades for those weapons during the round
^The above is more of a random rant than anything else so be nice about any contradictions/mistakes/lack of meaning etc.
Example: Comm left clicks on the armory, right clicks on shotgun, left clicks on player name (pop up menu or score board). That marine now has an allotment of one shotgun. The comm does it again and the marine now has an allotment of 2. Comm changes his mind and ctrl-clicks on the allotment number under the scoreboard, decreasing it.
The comm knows who the shotgun is going to and the marine can get it at his leisure, the comm still holds "the power".
I think you can probably trust us in that we're not going to make a CS-clone at this point...
And another great mod falls to the appearant need to please the huge crowd of twelve year old CS rambos.
Please please please for the love of christ don't make guns buyable. Don't turn NS into Counterstrike with aliens. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
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I have to disagree with you.
Why are all arguments against these changes as shallow as "I don't want this to turn into CS!" Can you even elaborate WHY it is that bad?
Just take a deep breath and think about this for a while. This IMPROVES teamplay on the marine side, as you will no longer be restricted to a master/slave relationship between marines and the commander. You will have to *gasp* coordinate with your team, do more than just blindly follow orders and shoot anything that moves, be smart about your resources and spend it at the same time the rest of your team does.
Besides forcing marines to think ahead and coordinate as much as the commander, if marines were to buy their own weapons you wouldn't see jackasses camping marine start demanding an HMG "because they are awesome".
I'm a full supporter of individual resources to each marine, much like the aliens have it now. It would also make an unified Resource Distribution System a possibility, which would in turn make the game much easier to balance, as both sides would get resources at the same pace. Plus, I'm tired of joining as a marine and feeling like an "ant".
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Without exclusive access to dropping stuff, i feel like the comm chair will become a glorified throne from which to yell at people. Why do people listen to the comm in the first place? Because he gets the team upgrades? Upgrades pretty much follow a set path in ns. Because he can give waypoints and order people around? but any marine with voicecomm can order people around. Medpacks are just a matter of listening to and fulfilling requests. This has more to do with hitting keys and clicking quickly than strategy. the commander is the one who decides when and where to drop structures and weapons. That is the only real reason anyone listens to the comm. Taking away the power to drop weapons leaves the comm with very little to do but get upgrades in the right order and drop an rt every time someone calls for it.
^The above is more of a random rant than anything else so be nice about any contradictions/mistakes/lack of meaning etc.
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I agree with you on some points, and while a few people only follows orders because they want to get their hands on a nice weapon, its best to let those silly marines go nuts and kill a few skulks than having stupid players camping the armory and spamming the team chat for a weapon. It is the lesser of two evils. The rambo is at least doing <b>something</b> for his team, while the camper is doing nothing.
I have a good feeling to where we are going with this. While it may be a disaster in the first couple of weeks, people will eventually "get real" and work with each other, not just play the blame game on the commander.
Have a little faith in them. They love this game more than their own souls, they won't screw it.
I like locallyunscene's idea though. Instead of dropping a shotty and praying that the player you indended it for is the one that actually gets it, you can specifically choose who to allow to use shotties. I don't think you'd want to make the comm able to remove the allotted shotty though or everyone would take it the instant it becomes available so that they don't get it taken away.
I think that system warrants serious consideration.
1) Remove weapon selection from the commander and award it to the marines.
2) Commander must research weapons taken for granted in regular NS.
3) For heavier equipment, there are only so many that can be "rented out" at once (insert griefing safety measure here?)
4) Allow the commander to control a broader technology tree, allowing him to focus on macro-strategies rather than micromanagement.
5) To bring the commander back to the game at hand, give him more control over the station's electronics and mechanics: doors, elevators, cranes, airlocks, ventilation systems, docking bays, and so on. This could interact with the dynamic infestation, allowing the commander more control over clean systems closer to the marine outpost. The commander would be almost a form of telekinesis for the marines: if they need a door shut to trap a fatty or obstruct some offense chambers, or a fan turned on to block a vent, he can deliver.
Just some ideas out there. They're not coherent or comprehensive enough to work their way into I&S, so they can stay here for now.
There are a lot of ways that it could be implemented to give the comm power.
Example: Comm left clicks on the armory, right clicks on shotgun, left clicks on player name (pop up menu or score board). That marine now has an allotment of one shotgun. The comm does it again and the marine now has an allotment of 2. Comm changes his mind and ctrl-clicks on the allotment number under the scoreboard, decreasing it.
The comm knows who the shotgun is going to and the marine can get it at his leisure, the comm still holds "the power".
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I was thinking the exact same thing as you. People need to stop thinking of this as a stripping of the commander's power, but instead making it more convenient to distribute weapons.
lol you are stupid, yes you can buy weapons...as commander you troll
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You didn't really read this thread, did you?
I'm not panic mongering... I just wrote what I thought.
And to be honest, I'm more uncomfortable than ever about this. I really hoped it would be all about testing things and that they didn't even assess the possibility of including this in the game.
I don't know about you, but giving out weapons and building structures are the only thing the commander really can do actively. <b>And hoping that the whole marine team will just act as a team and only buy guns if absolutely necessary is just purely naive</b>.
You didn't really read this thread, did you?
I'm not panic mongering... I just wrote what I thought.
And to be honest, I'm more uncomfortable than ever about this. I really hoped it would be all about testing things and that they didn't even assess the possibility of including this in the game.
I don't know about you, but giving out weapons and building structures are the only thing the commander really can do actively. <b>And hoping that the whole marine team will just act as a team and only buy guns if absolutely necessary is just purely naive</b>.
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And being completely against a system that hasn't even been tested or assesed yet isn't? The designers know what they're doing, remember this isn't NS:S it's NS2 - the core mechanics of the game may well alter, making it very difficult to comment on how something like this may pan out. Wait and see before you pass judgement, it may well not even make it into the game anyway!
Train of thought:
1) Remove weapon selection from the commander and award it to the marines.
2) Commander must research weapons taken for granted in regular NS.
3) For heavier equipment, there are only so many that can be "rented out" at once (insert griefing safety measure here?)
4) Allow the commander to control a broader technology tree, allowing him to focus on macro-strategies rather than micromanagement.
5) To bring the commander back to the game at hand, give him more control over the station's electronics and mechanics: doors, elevators, cranes, airlocks, ventilation systems, docking bays, and so on. This could interact with the dynamic infestation, allowing the commander more control over clean systems closer to the marine outpost. The commander would be almost a form of telekinesis for the marines: if they need a door shut to trap a fatty or obstruct some offense chambers, or a fan turned on to block a vent, he can deliver.
Just some ideas out there. They're not coherent or comprehensive enough to work their way into I&S, so they can stay here for now.
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this sounds interesting to me. i wouldnt mind trying it out at all.