Now the GM Volt is something I can get excited over.
A lot of people bought into the whole "GM killed the electric car" thing, but I really don't see it. The EV1 was a technological marvel. A lot of technologies from it's development are used today. Many many challenges were overcome, like how to heat/cool a car efficiently and run all the pneumatic/hydrolics without a continuously running vacuum system. It was a very neat vehicle.
But the thing costed. About $20k worth of batteries were stuffed into it. EVERYWHERE. The engine compartment, the trunk, where a traditional transmission tunnel would be... The thing was more or less a battery on wheels. Half the weight of the car came from the battiers (about 1200 lbs worth)
Also, I really don't think it's a cooincidence that they started to recall the cars at about the time that most Nimh batteries would start to go sour (about 10 years.) The charging cycles required to get the range they needed were probably not very good on the battery pack. Just look at current hybrids. They have a fraction of the batteries that the EV1 had, and they control the charge cycles of the battery pack very strictly to keep battery longevity, but even then they still wear out. Not a lot, many people are reporting 10years/150k+ miles, but that's with VERY gentle charging.
Another problem is that people are somewhat short sighted. They see a vehicle sitting in front of them that works and they wonder why they can't make a whole bunch for everybody. I don't think people realize what large amount of energy went into making the car in the first place.
Right now, probably less than 500k hybrids are made every year. Those hybrids have enough batteries to power the car for about a mile or so. Just that relatively small amount of battery power is currently putting battery production under severe stress. The production of nimh batteries is pretty much entirely spoken for these days, and that's just to supply hybrids.
Getting back to the Volt,
I really love the concept. 40 miles worth of batteries is doable. The cost of those batteries is probably still going to tip the scales at at least $5,000, but that might be made up for with the smaller engine.
It also creates a great proof of concept by making sure that there is no mechanical connection between wheels and engine, only electrical. This, I think, would really slipstream the idea of an electric car both into the American minds and into the infrastructure of production.
Beyond that, it also uses a neat concept. The small engine can cut on only when needed to charge the batteries. A gasoline engine that is tuned and tweaked to run at ONE RPM is loads more efficient than normal car engines that have to be able to run at a wide range of RPMs. That's most of the reason why hybrids work, they use a smaller engine at a more efficient power band in everyday driving, then use the electric motor as a booster/starter at the low and high ends.
For even more MPG fun, they should use a diesel engine.
Electric cars would be nice... but could the current power grid handle everyone plugging in their cars? I don't think you could build enough solar panels and wind mills to handle that load. And they're also going to be competing with all the other gadgets we all are buying and plugging in too!
Once you have that problem solved, then there's the thought of what happens when people (as they will) have accidents? Will we have to call in a HAZMAT team every time the batteries start leaking everywhere because of a wreck, defect, abuse, or neglect? If the chemicals in these batteries are toxic, what could you do about those people who like to stockpile every car he/she has owned their entire life out in their backyard... they're out there...
... I'd rather not even go into how you'd even attempt to get even a car dealer's mechanic to work on these things. Most people wouldn't even touch the current ones(you REALLY don't want to stage a hybrid gas/electric car incorrectly on a lift, if you clip the main conduit, *ZAP*). That, and I've seen people make honest mistakes when doing something as simple as buying tires for these things; you can't just slap on regular car tires, a lot of these cars are HEAVY, as in you have to buy special tires that have a higher load range to handle all those batteries, the motor, and the engine.
I really do like the thought of having an alternative to oil dependant cars, but unless batteries that can store MASSIVE amounts of electricity that are lightweight, cheap, durable, non-toxic, and can power not only the motor in the car, but all the gadgets that currently run off of the std internal combustion engine's alternator (which, in some cases pull more juice that even the car's alternator can put out) they can accelerate faster, have a higher top speed, and run on something other than gas or diesel, but that still won't make it practical. And if it isn't practical, it's not a good alternative.
Last question in this post: What about resell value? Will they have anything near the resell value of even my old truck. I’m mainly attributing this to the fact that you have people considering how much life is left in those costly batteries, the complexity of a car with two “power plants”, and lets face it, something that’s harder to work on, more so than even these new cars that are being put out that look like the orientation and location of engine components under the hood were decided by chimps, domestic and foreign cars alike.
<!--quoteo(post=1616962:date=Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM:name=Shoot_me)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shoot_me @ Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM) [snapback]1616962[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Electric cars would be nice... but could the current power grid handle everyone plugging in their cars? I don't think you could build enough solar panels and wind mills to handle that load. And they're also going to be competing with all the other gadgets we all are buying and plugging in too! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup, plenty.
If all cars on the road were instantly changed into electric cars Using offpeak electric generating capacity, 80% of the cars on the road could be accomidated by using nighttime charging.
Whats more, Using a smart electricity grid, Electric cars can be used to charge other electric cars.
More electric cars on the grid, potentially it could make the grid more stable than ever. <a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/17930/" target="_blank">http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/17930/</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1616962:date=Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM:name=Shoot_me)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shoot_me @ Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM) [snapback]1616962[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Once you have that problem solved, then there's the thought of what happens when people (as they will) have accidents? Will we have to call in a HAZMAT team every time the batteries start leaking everywhere? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, Lithium isn't considered to be toxic. And unlike the famous dell batteries, with different reactants besides cobalt, and different connectors, they can be safe even in 140° temperatures.
<!--quoteo(post=1616962:date=Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM:name=Shoot_me)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shoot_me @ Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM) [snapback]1616962[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> ... I'd rather not even go into how you'd even attempt to get even a car dealer's mechanic to work on these things. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sure the Prius is build like a swiss watch, but thats a gasoline car with electric support. Electric cars, or Electric cars with gasoline generators. Those are much less complex than existing cars. By something like a factor of 10x less moving parts.
There's no transmission No exhaust system No steering column No alternator
The motor would require almost no maintenence, since it's turned by magnetism, not little explosions.
Hell, potentially there could even be no drivetrain, and you'd just have 4 electric motors mounted at the wheels.
Sure it might require the knowledge of an electrician, rather than a conventional mechanic. But hell, we do have a lot of electricians.
<!--quoteo(post=1616962:date=Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM:name=Shoot_me)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shoot_me @ Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM) [snapback]1616962[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Last question in this post: What about resell value? Will they have anything near the resell value of even my old truck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well when they make the batteries mainstream, they are pulling for something like a 20-40 year lifespan on the batteries, if not longer. Also by the time the batteries do wear out, replacing them should be rather inexpensive.
As for the car itself, it'll need almost no maintence, very little vibration, heat, or friction to speak of. It should be in great condition for a long time.
Comments
The GM volt is in development
<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16503845/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16503845/</a>
Should have atleast a 40mile electric range
Backed up by a gasoline generator.
<img src="http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070106/070106_chevrolet_volt_hmed7p.hmedium.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
A lot of people bought into the whole "GM killed the electric car" thing, but I really don't see it. The EV1 was a technological marvel. A lot of technologies from it's development are used today. Many many challenges were overcome, like how to heat/cool a car efficiently and run all the pneumatic/hydrolics without a continuously running vacuum system. It was a very neat vehicle.
But the thing costed. About $20k worth of batteries were stuffed into it. EVERYWHERE. The engine compartment, the trunk, where a traditional transmission tunnel would be... The thing was more or less a battery on wheels. Half the weight of the car came from the battiers (about 1200 lbs worth)
Also, I really don't think it's a cooincidence that they started to recall the cars at about the time that most Nimh batteries would start to go sour (about 10 years.) The charging cycles required to get the range they needed were probably not very good on the battery pack. Just look at current hybrids. They have a fraction of the batteries that the EV1 had, and they control the charge cycles of the battery pack very strictly to keep battery longevity, but even then they still wear out. Not a lot, many people are reporting 10years/150k+ miles, but that's with VERY gentle charging.
Another problem is that people are somewhat short sighted. They see a vehicle sitting in front of them that works and they wonder why they can't make a whole bunch for everybody. I don't think people realize what large amount of energy went into making the car in the first place.
Right now, probably less than 500k hybrids are made every year. Those hybrids have enough batteries to power the car for about a mile or so. Just that relatively small amount of battery power is currently putting battery production under severe stress. The production of nimh batteries is pretty much entirely spoken for these days, and that's just to supply hybrids.
Getting back to the Volt,
I really love the concept. 40 miles worth of batteries is doable. The cost of those batteries is probably still going to tip the scales at at least $5,000, but that might be made up for with the smaller engine.
It also creates a great proof of concept by making sure that there is no mechanical connection between wheels and engine, only electrical. This, I think, would really slipstream the idea of an electric car both into the American minds and into the infrastructure of production.
Beyond that, it also uses a neat concept. The small engine can cut on only when needed to charge the batteries. A gasoline engine that is tuned and tweaked to run at ONE RPM is loads more efficient than normal car engines that have to be able to run at a wide range of RPMs. That's most of the reason why hybrids work, they use a smaller engine at a more efficient power band in everyday driving, then use the electric motor as a booster/starter at the low and high ends.
For even more MPG fun, they should use a diesel engine.
Once you have that problem solved, then there's the thought of what happens when people (as they will) have accidents? Will we have to call in a HAZMAT team every time the batteries start leaking everywhere because of a wreck, defect, abuse, or neglect? If the chemicals in these batteries are toxic, what could you do about those people who like to stockpile every car he/she has owned their entire life out in their backyard... they're out there...
... I'd rather not even go into how you'd even attempt to get even a car dealer's mechanic to work on these things. Most people wouldn't even touch the current ones(you REALLY don't want to stage a hybrid gas/electric car incorrectly on a lift, if you clip the main conduit, *ZAP*). That, and I've seen people make honest mistakes when doing something as simple as buying tires for these things; you can't just slap on regular car tires, a lot of these cars are HEAVY, as in you have to buy special tires that have a higher load range to handle all those batteries, the motor, and the engine.
I really do like the thought of having an alternative to oil dependant cars, but unless batteries that can store MASSIVE amounts of electricity that are lightweight, cheap, durable, non-toxic, and can power not only the motor in the car, but all the gadgets that currently run off of the std internal combustion engine's alternator (which, in some cases pull more juice that even the car's alternator can put out) they can accelerate faster, have a higher top speed, and run on something other than gas or diesel, but that still won't make it practical. And if it isn't practical, it's not a good alternative.
Last question in this post: What about resell value? Will they have anything near the resell value of even my old truck. I’m mainly attributing this to the fact that you have people considering how much life is left in those costly batteries, the complexity of a car with two “power plants”, and lets face it, something that’s harder to work on, more so than even these new cars that are being put out that look like the orientation and location of engine components under the hood were decided by chimps, domestic and foreign cars alike.
It's got style.
In my opinion, it's got the tech-heavy futuristic look that will make it a car to be seen in, and for more reasons than just what's under the hood.
I can safely say that even a full-gasoline version of the Volt, given the same stylings that the concept has, would be desirable.
Electric cars would be nice... but could the current power grid handle everyone plugging in their cars? I don't think you could build enough solar panels and wind mills to handle that load. And they're also going to be competing with all the other gadgets we all are buying and plugging in too!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup, plenty.
If all cars on the road were instantly changed into electric cars
Using offpeak electric generating capacity,
80% of the cars on the road could be accomidated by using nighttime charging.
Whats more,
Using a smart electricity grid,
Electric cars can be used to charge other electric cars.
More electric cars on the grid, potentially it could make the grid more stable than ever.
<a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/17930/" target="_blank">http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/17930/</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1616962:date=Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM:name=Shoot_me)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shoot_me @ Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM) [snapback]1616962[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Once you have that problem solved, then there's the thought of what happens when people (as they will) have accidents? Will we have to call in a HAZMAT team every time the batteries start leaking everywhere?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, Lithium isn't considered to be toxic. And unlike the famous dell batteries, with different reactants besides cobalt, and different connectors, they can be safe even in 140° temperatures.
<!--quoteo(post=1616962:date=Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM:name=Shoot_me)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shoot_me @ Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM) [snapback]1616962[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
... I'd rather not even go into how you'd even attempt to get even a car dealer's mechanic to work on these things.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure the Prius is build like a swiss watch, but thats a gasoline car with electric support.
Electric cars, or Electric cars with gasoline generators. Those are much less complex than existing cars.
By something like a factor of 10x less moving parts.
There's no transmission
No exhaust system
No steering column
No alternator
The motor would require almost no maintenence,
since it's turned by magnetism, not little explosions.
Hell, potentially there could even be no drivetrain,
and you'd just have 4 electric motors mounted at the wheels.
Sure it might require the knowledge of an electrician, rather than a conventional mechanic.
But hell, we do have a lot of electricians.
<!--quoteo(post=1616962:date=Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM:name=Shoot_me)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shoot_me @ Mar 26 2007, 06:45 AM) [snapback]1616962[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Last question in this post: What about resell value? Will they have anything near the resell value of even my old truck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well when they make the batteries mainstream, they are pulling for something like a 20-40 year lifespan on the batteries, if not longer. Also by the time the batteries do wear out, replacing them should be rather inexpensive.
As for the car itself, it'll need almost no maintence, very little vibration, heat, or friction to speak of.
It should be in great condition for a long time.