<!--quoteo(post=1614547:date=Mar 15 2007, 03:02 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 15 2007, 03:02 AM) [snapback]1614547[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> And I thought it was a team effort. Dang. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Teamwork is about doing your role. At the risk of sounding "elitist" or whatever term you people prefer, most of the time I can serve the team best by going fade. Anybody can drop a hive or chew down nodes or drop chambers. Not everybody can fade in a manner that will ensure the second hive going up. I can't keep track of how many times I've dropped a hive, only to see it die because the rest of the team couldn't prevent parasited marines from walking right in and setting up a PG. I'm more than happy to do something else if there's somebody else on the team who can step in and fill the role, but if not, forgive me for playing to win.
<!--quoteo(post=1614888:date=Mar 16 2007, 03:47 AM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Mar 16 2007, 03:47 AM) [snapback]1614888[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Teamwork is about doing your role. At the risk of sounding "elitist" or whatever term you people prefer, most of the time I can serve the team best by going fade. Anybody can drop a hive or chew down nodes or drop chambers. Not everybody can fade in a manner that will ensure the second hive going up. I can't keep track of how many times I've dropped a hive, only to see it die because the rest of the team couldn't prevent parasited marines from walking right in and setting up a PG. I'm more than happy to do something else if there's somebody else on the team who can step in and fill the role, but if not, forgive me for playing to win. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No, I'm not here to criticize you, but to show you what's inherently the problem.
RFK is a problem because it only rewards those who are skilled. Marines are fine with it, because even if you suck, you have someone else to get res for you. But as an alien, if you suck, you aren't going anywhere.
If there was a way to keep teams balanced, then RFK would help each team equally. At this moment, it's a feature designed for skilled players only.
As a dev has already mentioned, the 'res spikes' certain players get, are used to get an earlier hive, or get *good* lifeforms sooner/first. All aliens benefit from both of those, and even moreso if more and more people cap nodes.
<!--quoteo(post=1614626:date=Mar 15 2007, 11:31 AM:name=LoneShark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LoneShark @ Mar 15 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]1614626[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Ohhh, /giveres is a brilliant idea if you want 30 second fades! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately that's a very good point. Its hard to come up with a good system that won't be abused/exploited.
<!--quoteo(post=1614626:date=Mar 15 2007, 04:31 PM:name=LoneShark)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LoneShark @ Mar 15 2007, 04:31 PM) [snapback]1614626[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Ohhh, /giveres is a brilliant idea if you want 30 second fades! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The plugin can be set up so that you can't give resources to other aliens untill a certain preset time has been reached. (Set it to 140 seconds and you can't donate untill the 2:20 mark etc.)
<!--quoteo(post=1616046:date=Mar 21 2007, 10:07 AM:name=KainTSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KainTSA @ Mar 21 2007, 10:07 AM) [snapback]1616046[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Unfortunately that's a very good point. Its hard to come up with a good system that won't be abused/exploited. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There where solutions with 3.1.3 and RFK off. But only a limited group of players liked these solutions. Guess why.....
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Remove r4k. All res needs to come from RTs. Having no RFK makes RTs more important, and it makes suicide tactics much more viable. Massive skulk rushes and meat-grinder phase gate will no longer help the otehr team!
<!--quoteo(post=1615915:date=Mar 21 2007, 02:05 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Mar 21 2007, 02:05 AM) [snapback]1615915[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> RFK is a problem because it only rewards those who are skilled... as an alien, if you suck, you aren't going anywhere. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All aliens also start with 25 res, which is far more than the marines' equivalent. If there were only 4 marines, they would have '25 res each'. Sure, aliens need gorges to put everything up... but marines need to drop 20-40 res immediately just to <i>respawn</i>, then another 10 for the base beginning of the tech tree and for ammo, and then another 15 or 20 just to be able to start upgrades. This is not taking into account any res towers being dropped yet, so you're talking 45-70 of marines' starting res being put immediately into structures that themselves give no significant advantage (i wouldnt count scan or ammo as an advantage, compared to actually having an upgrade).
So really, marines start with about ~40 free res, most of which is used in the early game for res towers. Often a good chunk of it is also put into the initial upgrade.
But, back to the original point... all aliens begin with 25 res. If you think they 'arent going anywhere', well, worst case scenario, they wont go too far; but they began way ahead. Taking a 9 player alien team, capping the obligatory 2 nodes (3 nodes total is about the minimal amount you can have if you want to win), you still have 7 aliens with full starting res. If, say, one of those rt cappers waited for 5 res to drop a chamber, and another alien with starting res (so by 5 res later, 30) dropped two more chambers, voila. Alien team with 3 nodes and 3 chambers, and 5/9 of its players have full res (roughly 30 each by the 1:20 mark, assuming quick capping on those 2 rts).
From here, you can easily pick one for the hive, at least one for fade, one for lerk, and have two full-res aliens left over to either get more rts, OCs, or lifeforms. And this is *NOT* counting any RFK, and assuming *ONLY* 2 outside nodes have been capped.
That picture alone sounds like the beginnings of either a damn good game, or an alien win. There are always surprises that pop up in any plan, so you have to constantly adapt, which is why its great to have to many players in reserve with full res. But it mostly hinges on nodes being capped; 3 total is critical, any more and you're in the clear, economically.
In terms of RFK, no, aliens who do not get kills are <i>not</i> left behind. They have plenty to contribute to the team, even if they dont see the shallow benefits of going early lifeform. If people contribute in an appropriate way, the aliens always have a great chance of winning. This also includes people who consider themselves pro fades. If there are multiple pro fades, as there often is, at least one, if not many of you, must suck it up and realize that your team might need more nodes. If so, dont whine, just st.fu and cap them.
<!--quoteo(post=1616180:date=Mar 22 2007, 06:15 AM:name=Church)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Church @ Mar 22 2007, 06:15 AM) [snapback]1616180[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Remove r4k. All res needs to come from RTs. Having no RFK makes RTs more important, and it makes suicide tactics much more viable. Massive skulk rushes and meat-grinder phase gate will no longer help the otehr team! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I, agree to you there. The only way to make it a really Teamplay game. Then everybody is a member of the team and is important. One Pro can´t protect all RT'S. Thus every member of the team becomes an important one. He will have fun and feel not bad if he is killed. Or is held responsible, if the worst comes to the worst, for the fact that the game was lost because of him.
Comments
Gorging needs to be more interesting, but maintain its flavor of macro structure controller / "world-manager" support class.
I still favor gorges mutating marine structures into twisted metal/biological hybrid things. This idea is better used in ns2 though, I think.
Also the marines will not get as many rfks if skulks would stop running at them in straight lines down long hallways.
And I thought it was a team effort. Dang.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Teamwork is about doing your role. At the risk of sounding "elitist" or whatever term you people prefer, most of the time I can serve the team best by going fade. Anybody can drop a hive or chew down nodes or drop chambers. Not everybody can fade in a manner that will ensure the second hive going up. I can't keep track of how many times I've dropped a hive, only to see it die because the rest of the team couldn't prevent parasited marines from walking right in and setting up a PG. I'm more than happy to do something else if there's somebody else on the team who can step in and fill the role, but if not, forgive me for playing to win.
Teamwork is about doing your role. At the risk of sounding "elitist" or whatever term you people prefer, most of the time I can serve the team best by going fade. Anybody can drop a hive or chew down nodes or drop chambers. Not everybody can fade in a manner that will ensure the second hive going up. I can't keep track of how many times I've dropped a hive, only to see it die because the rest of the team couldn't prevent parasited marines from walking right in and setting up a PG. I'm more than happy to do something else if there's somebody else on the team who can step in and fill the role, but if not, forgive me for playing to win.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->No, I'm not here to criticize you, but to show you what's inherently the problem.
RFK is a problem because it only rewards those who are skilled. Marines are fine with it, because even if you suck, you have someone else to get res for you. But as an alien, if you suck, you aren't going anywhere.
If there was a way to keep teams balanced, then RFK would help each team equally. At this moment, it's a feature designed for skilled players only.
Ohhh, /giveres is a brilliant idea if you want 30 second fades!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately that's a very good point. Its hard to come up with a good system that won't be abused/exploited.
Ohhh, /giveres is a brilliant idea if you want 30 second fades!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The plugin can be set up so that you can't give resources to other aliens untill a certain preset time has been reached. (Set it to 140 seconds and you can't donate untill the 2:20 mark etc.)
Unfortunately that's a very good point. Its hard to come up with a good system that won't be abused/exploited.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There where solutions with 3.1.3 and RFK off. But only a limited group of players liked these solutions. Guess why.....
RFK is a problem because it only rewards those who are skilled... as an alien, if you suck, you aren't going anywhere.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All aliens also start with 25 res, which is far more than the marines' equivalent. If there were only 4 marines, they would have '25 res each'. Sure, aliens need gorges to put everything up... but marines need to drop 20-40 res immediately just to <i>respawn</i>, then another 10 for the base beginning of the tech tree and for ammo, and then another 15 or 20 just to be able to start upgrades. This is not taking into account any res towers being dropped yet, so you're talking 45-70 of marines' starting res being put immediately into structures that themselves give no significant advantage (i wouldnt count scan or ammo as an advantage, compared to actually having an upgrade).
So really, marines start with about ~40 free res, most of which is used in the early game for res towers. Often a good chunk of it is also put into the initial upgrade.
But, back to the original point... all aliens begin with 25 res. If you think they 'arent going anywhere', well, worst case scenario, they wont go too far; but they began way ahead. Taking a 9 player alien team, capping the obligatory 2 nodes (3 nodes total is about the minimal amount you can have if you want to win), you still have 7 aliens with full starting res. If, say, one of those rt cappers waited for 5 res to drop a chamber, and another alien with starting res (so by 5 res later, 30) dropped two more chambers, voila. Alien team with 3 nodes and 3 chambers, and 5/9 of its players have full res (roughly 30 each by the 1:20 mark, assuming quick capping on those 2 rts).
From here, you can easily pick one for the hive, at least one for fade, one for lerk, and have two full-res aliens left over to either get more rts, OCs, or lifeforms. And this is *NOT* counting any RFK, and assuming *ONLY* 2 outside nodes have been capped.
That picture alone sounds like the beginnings of either a damn good game, or an alien win. There are always surprises that pop up in any plan, so you have to constantly adapt, which is why its great to have to many players in reserve with full res. But it mostly hinges on nodes being capped; 3 total is critical, any more and you're in the clear, economically.
In terms of RFK, no, aliens who do not get kills are <i>not</i> left behind. They have plenty to contribute to the team, even if they dont see the shallow benefits of going early lifeform. If people contribute in an appropriate way, the aliens always have a great chance of winning. This also includes people who consider themselves pro fades. If there are multiple pro fades, as there often is, at least one, if not many of you, must suck it up and realize that your team might need more nodes. If so, dont whine, just st.fu and cap them.
Remove r4k. All res needs to come from RTs. Having no RFK makes RTs more important, and it makes suicide tactics much more viable. Massive skulk rushes and meat-grinder phase gate will no longer help the otehr team!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I, agree to you there. The only way to make it a really Teamplay game. Then everybody is a member of the team and is important. One Pro can´t protect all RT'S. Thus every member of the team becomes an important one. He will have fun and feel not bad if he is killed. Or is held responsible, if the worst comes to the worst, for the fact that the game was lost because of him.