Electric Car - Faster than a Ferrari
<div class="IPBDescription">250mile range. 250horsepower. 3.5hour recharge</div>A proof-of-concept that electric cars can be: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFVg_xEGYno" target="_blank">Powerful, practical, and sexy.</a>
Catch, is it's $90,000 retail.
<img src="http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/Tesla-Roadster.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
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Way it gets the range is by using a massive array of laptop batteries. (Lithium Ion)
The Prius and the old EV1 use NiMH (Nickel Metal Hydride Batteries)
Don't quite offer the punch of Lithium Ion.
Past Lithium, you have <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/business/yourmoney/11stream.html?ex=1331269200&en=f0413d12fe66dacb&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss" target="_blank">NanoLithium Batteries</a>,
and <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/03/10/nanotech-strikes-again-university-of-arizona-creates-new-capac/" target="_blank">Nano UltraCapacitors</a> being developed that plan to shatter existing limits.
Allowing for recharge speeds in minutes, with driving ranges well above those of conventional cars.
Inbetween there, you have plugin hybrids electric vehicles. (PHEV)
Which are essentially electric cars, with a backup gasoline generator for extended range.
Like the <a href="http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/08/news/companies/green_gm/index.htm?postversion=2007010815" target="_blank">upcoming GM Volt</a>.
If you want to really get into some gritty details on the Tesla for various stuff:
<a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/white_papers.php" target="_blank">Check their whitepaper</a>
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All the while, the generating capacity of cars nationwide is 20x larger than our electricity grid.
(About 29,000GWh versus 2,700GWh)
By borrowing some of that capacity, wind and solar could become just as reliable as coal or natural gas.
And <a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=17930" target="_blank">help stabalize the electricity grid</a>, saving billions in yearly generation costs.
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Tesla goes over pretty well <a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/blog1/?p=25" target="_blank">Why Electric is the superior choice</a> for the future.
Starting off with, that it's 3x more energy effecient than fuel cell cars.
Biomass in an electric power plant, or diesel generator is 2x as effecient than BioFuels.
But I think the best example was that <a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/pvethanol.gif" target="_blank">it takes about 32x less land to do solar than ethanol</a>.
Even the very best farm crops are only 1-2% effecient at converting sunlight into energy.
Solar electricity can be anywhere between 10-35% effecient. (<a href="http://www.sciencenews.org/scripts/printthis.asp?clip=%2Farticles%2F20060603%2Fclip%5Fbob8%2Easp" target="_blank">And double or triple that in the future</a>)
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Why are we wasting our time with Ethanol and Hydrogen?
Bring on the Electricity <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Catch, is it's $90,000 retail.
<img src="http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/Tesla-Roadster.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
_
Way it gets the range is by using a massive array of laptop batteries. (Lithium Ion)
The Prius and the old EV1 use NiMH (Nickel Metal Hydride Batteries)
Don't quite offer the punch of Lithium Ion.
Past Lithium, you have <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/business/yourmoney/11stream.html?ex=1331269200&en=f0413d12fe66dacb&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss" target="_blank">NanoLithium Batteries</a>,
and <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/03/10/nanotech-strikes-again-university-of-arizona-creates-new-capac/" target="_blank">Nano UltraCapacitors</a> being developed that plan to shatter existing limits.
Allowing for recharge speeds in minutes, with driving ranges well above those of conventional cars.
Inbetween there, you have plugin hybrids electric vehicles. (PHEV)
Which are essentially electric cars, with a backup gasoline generator for extended range.
Like the <a href="http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/08/news/companies/green_gm/index.htm?postversion=2007010815" target="_blank">upcoming GM Volt</a>.
If you want to really get into some gritty details on the Tesla for various stuff:
<a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/white_papers.php" target="_blank">Check their whitepaper</a>
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All the while, the generating capacity of cars nationwide is 20x larger than our electricity grid.
(About 29,000GWh versus 2,700GWh)
By borrowing some of that capacity, wind and solar could become just as reliable as coal or natural gas.
And <a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=17930" target="_blank">help stabalize the electricity grid</a>, saving billions in yearly generation costs.
_
Tesla goes over pretty well <a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/blog1/?p=25" target="_blank">Why Electric is the superior choice</a> for the future.
Starting off with, that it's 3x more energy effecient than fuel cell cars.
Biomass in an electric power plant, or diesel generator is 2x as effecient than BioFuels.
But I think the best example was that <a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/pvethanol.gif" target="_blank">it takes about 32x less land to do solar than ethanol</a>.
Even the very best farm crops are only 1-2% effecient at converting sunlight into energy.
Solar electricity can be anywhere between 10-35% effecient. (<a href="http://www.sciencenews.org/scripts/printthis.asp?clip=%2Farticles%2F20060603%2Fclip%5Fbob8%2Easp" target="_blank">And double or triple that in the future</a>)
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Why are we wasting our time with Ethanol and Hydrogen?
Bring on the Electricity <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Comments
I think my next car will be electric. I'll give it another 5 years before they have a consumer-level electric runabout.
--Scythe--
Where are the flying cars? I was promised flying cars.
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Considering all the problems there can be with driving in two dimensions, I would be scared to go outside if there were flying cars.
Considering all the problems there can be with driving in two dimensions, I would be scared to go outside if there were flying cars.
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Most of the 2d problems have to do with hitting things. Up in the air, the worst you can smash into is a bird. Or a plane. Or Superman!
I really wouldn't want "flying" cars. Maybe ones that hover, but that'd maybe be harded to do than flying cars?
Either way, electric cars sound nice, wish some alternative would come around soon to toss out the ol' combustion engine.
I'll stick to my 290hp premium fuel guzzling Lexus, no thanks. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
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Does yours accelerate to 0-60 in under 4 seconds?
Ferrari Enzo, 12 cylinder, 651hp, (0-60) <b>3.695sec</b>, $643,330
Peak horsepower isn't the only measure of speed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
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The trick is:
1. <a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/blog1/?p=50" target="_blank">Light Frame</a>
2. Instant Transmission (Theres only 2 gears, forwards and backwards)
3. <a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/performance.php" target="_blank">100% Torque off the starting line</a>
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As <a href="http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,71414-0.html" target="_blank">Wired Magazine puts it</a>:
<blockquote>"You see any cops?" Eberhard asks, shooting me a mischievous look. The car is vibrating, ready to launch. I'm the first journalist to get a ride.
He releases the brake and my head snaps back. One-one-thousand: I get a floating feeling, like going over the falls in a roller coaster. Two-one-thousand: The world tunnels, the trees blur. Three-one-thousand: We hit 60 miles per hour. Eberhard brakes. We're at a standstill again -- elapsed time, nine seconds. When potential buyers get a look at the vehicle this summer, it will be among the quickest production cars in the world. And, compared to other supercars like the Bugatti Veyron, Ferrari Enzo, and Lamborghini Diablo, it's a bargain. More intriguing: It has no combustion engine.</blockquote>
In air, stopping would have certain consequences.
I think flying cars should require a much harder to get drivers license.
Nice looking car though.
$90k though? I mean, cheaper than a $200k Ferrari, but I'm pretty sure that's above the average joe's yearly salarly...
Isn't manufacturing/disposing of all those batteries going to be just as harmful to the environment as a gas powered car would be? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Taken from <a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/faqs.php" target="_blank">their FAQ</a>:
<blockquote><b>Are there any toxic chemicals in the battery? </b>
All Lithium Ion batteries are classified by the federal government as non-hazardous waste and are safe for disposal in the normal municipal waste stream. These batteries, however, do contain valuable recyclable materials that make recycling a good idea.</blockquote>
<!--quoteo(post=1615380:date=Mar 18 2007, 06:49 PM:name=Athena)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Athena @ Mar 18 2007, 06:49 PM) [snapback]1615380[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
That is without a doubt the sexiest elec car I've ever seen.
$90k though? I mean, cheaper than a $200k Ferrari, but I'm pretty sure that's above the average joe's yearly salarly...
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Well assuming no changes in battery technology.
They've already chosen a manufacturing facility in New Mexico
to build their $40,000 Whitestar sedan.
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<a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/blog1/?p=8" target="_blank">As they describe it.</a>
<blockquote><b>So, in short, the master plan is:</b><ul><li>Build sports car </li><li>Use that money to build an affordable car </li><li>Use that money to build an even more affordable car </li><li>While doing above, also provide zero emission electric power generation options</li></ul></blockquote>
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Considering battery technology is taking off like a rocket using nanotech.
And they are increasing their economy of scale 10x with this new production facility
Chances are the 3rd gen Tesla will be hitting that $20,000 pricepoint.
So the end result is more power starting off, meaning more acceleration, but lower top speed.
weight/speed ratio
The car still looks pretty though and has power, so I like it!
Wait, faster than a Ferrari? According to Wiki, the Tesla Roadster's top speed is 130mph...
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Faster acceleration.
<!--quoteo(post=1615450:date=Mar 18 2007, 11:04 PM:name=Cxwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cxwf @ Mar 18 2007, 11:04 PM) [snapback]1615450[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Probably cause of that whole "no gear shifting" thing. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
So the end result is more power starting off, meaning more acceleration, but lower top speed.
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Well it's both.
Petroleum cars have a very narrow RPM where they get peak torque.
This car gets peak torque all the way up until about 85mph.
And there's no time wasted switching out gears and such.
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The top speed is usually not a limitation on the engine
But rather a limitation on the batteries, how much juice they can pump how fast.
And this is especially true, since the Tesla uses an inductive magnet, instead of a rare earth magnet.
So more juice, more wire turns, more magnetism.
And bigger and badder batteries are coming out which should allow that topspeed to clime even higher.
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It also might have something to do with a limitation to reduce wear and tear on the batteries.
AC Propulsion helped design the Tesla Roadster,
and their <a href="http://www.stefanoparis.com/piaev/acpropulsion/eBox/ebox.html" target="_blank">eBox car </a> is artificially limited to 90mph for this reason.
Somoene in the comments on the vid posted they are only good for 500 recharges and they cost $20,000 to replace but i wanted to see some sort of proof on that.
How long are the batteries good for and how much do they cost to replace.
Somoene in the comments on the vid posted they are only good for 500 recharges and they cost $20,000 to replace but i wanted to see some sort of proof on that.
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Actually he's about right.
Catch is, they would last for about 10 years.
And within the next 2 years battery tech is expected to make some huge leaps.
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So by the time it gets replaced, it certainly isn't going to cost $20,000
I'd be suprised if it costs $2,000
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AltairNano LithiumPolimyer batteries for instance are already out in small ammounts.
Those have 15000 recharges.
Not that such things aren't possible. It's just that so far i've yet to hear about any working prototypes with demonstratable longevity.
Until batteries that are as energy dense as LION and at least twice as durable as NIMH are more than just vaporware, an affordable electric car is a pipe dream.
Not that such things aren't possible. It's just that so far i've yet to hear about any working prototypes with demonstratable longevity.
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1. <a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/14/phoenix-motors-takes-order-for-75-electritrucks/" target="_blank">AltairNano has already begun selling a limited number of cars</a> with their batteries in them.
Offers the cars about 130 mile range, with a 10 minute rechage.
The car is a fullsized pickup put out by Phoenix Motors.
2. A123 Systems has signed up with General Motors to put their batteries inside the upcoming GM Volt Plugin Hybrid, and Saturn Vue Plugin Hybrid. <a href="http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/attachment_detail.asp?productID=14905" target="_blank">They've already sold a couple of their batteries</a> so far in the <a href="http://www.dewalt.com/36v/" target="_blank">Dewalt power tools 36volt series</a>. Says it offers 2000 cycles.
4x more than what Tesla offers on their sports car.
3. EEStor, an ultracapacitor company. They are rather secretive, but there's a lot of good hype about em:
A) Funded by Kliener Perkins venture capital. Same as what started Google, Ebay, Amazon.com
B) Chaired by former IBM exectives
C) The plan to have the batteries out sometime in 2007...
D) .... Inside a car manufactured by ZENN motors
E) They've already verified their chemicals and manufacturing facilities through a third part.
Whats also encouraging is that <a href="http://uanews.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/UANews.woa/3/wa/SRStoryDetails?ArticleID=13679" target="_blank">University of Arizona </a> has published information on this new tech.
"UltraCapacitors don't wear out like batteries and would last for the life of the vehicle and beyond."
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Not sure which one will win, but between NanoLithium and UltraCapacitors
One of em is gonna be a killer technology.
I fully see this stuff going retail in 2008.
If not sooner <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
So? Where could you legally drive faster than that? I would much rather accelerate faster and leave the rest of traffic dumbfounded at how I accelerated so fast? Plus that would kick major ###### for drifting to have that kind of torque.
I'd also like to say, if I went with an electric it would need to meet the following criteria:
-600 mile range between charges.
-Charges quickly, preferably less then an hour.
-Max speed of 90 miles an hour, runs comfortably and efficiently at 75.
-Battery charge isn't affected by below freezing temperatures. Electric/hybrid do absolutely horrible in cold climates.
So? Where could you legally drive faster than that? I would much rather accelerate faster and leave the rest of traffic dumbfounded at how I accelerated so fast? Plus that would kick major ###### for drifting to have that kind of torque.
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Did someone say <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GSX1300R" target="_blank">fast</a>?
And it's best to go by the simple rule "it's only illegal if a cop finds out."
-600 mile range between charges.
-Charges quickly, preferably less then an hour.
-Max speed of 90 miles an hour, runs comfortably and efficiently at 75.
-Battery charge isn't affected by below freezing temperatures. Electric/hybrid do absolutely horrible in cold climates.
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Well how about
-500 mile range between charges (300 is normal for gasoline cars)
-6 minute recharge (Or atmost less than 10 minutes)
-Max speed of 130 mph
-Battery temp isn't an issue until you reach -70°F
<!--quoteo(post=1615977:date=Mar 21 2007, 06:14 AM:name=digz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(digz @ Mar 21 2007, 06:14 AM) [snapback]1615977[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I see ethanol and biomass a better option in the states simply for the economy. Farmers here seem to need this.
I'd also like to say, if I went with an electric it would need to meet the following criteria:
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You would think. But sadly, you'd be wrong.
First off, <a href="http://www.teslamotors.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/pvethanol.gif" target="_blank">Ethanol just doesn't work.</a>
When you heard Brazil gained energy independance through Ethanol?
That was a lie. They gained it through <a href="http://new.api.org/aboutoilgas/sectors/segments/upload/Brazil_Energy_Independence.pdf" target="_blank">massive increases in domestic oil drilling</a>.
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Second off, Ethanol does not help out farmers.
1. The only benefit farmers get from ethanol prices is when the FOOD prices skyrocket.
Inbetween 2006-2007 the <a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/18173/" target="_blank">price of corn has doubled.</a>
This screws over everyone else, <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/mar2007/db20070316_016207.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story" target="_blank">particularly the livestock farmers</a>.
2. Any ethanol profits outside of a rise in commodity prices goes straight toward
<a href="http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2006/12/06/ADM/index.html" target="_blank">Archer Daniels Midland</a>. (ADM) Their basically the "middleman megalo corportation"
In order to get your product sold, you almost have to go through them.
And they <a href="http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-241.html" target="_blank">take their cut</a>. In short, <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/5/8/20270/89817" target="_blank">ADM gets rich</a>. Not the farmers. And family farms get pushed out by corporate farms.
Not to mention you'd also <a href="http://www.ewg.org/farm/progdetail.php?fips=00000&progcode=corn" target="_blank">be wasting taxpayer dollars</a>
3. On the other hand, ACTUALLY helping out real farmers.
<a href="http://www.benjerry.com/familyfarms/" target="_blank">Ben and Jerrys has a bunch of good ideas.</a>
4. However a really solid one is to have farmers
<a href="http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/renewable_energy_basics/farming-the-wind-wind-power-and-agriculture.html" target="_blank">Put up wind turbines on the farm.</a>
Wind Turbines don't block the sun, take up hardly any land, and there's clear open space for the wind to pass through.
And if the turbine falls over? Who cares, thats just a few lost cabbages.
5. Another useful thing to help ACTUAL farmers.
Is to have em start growing organic crops.
Not only do they get more money for their crop
<a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/07/06/financial/f121005D02.DTL" target="_blank">Oraganic foods are the only food crops showing massive growth in demand</a>
or <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a399fIxp9-E&mode=related&search=" target="_blank">this</a> one LOL
or there's <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXqYbNEiW0Y" target="_blank">this</a> electric car
or <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a399fIxp9-E&mode=related&search=" target="_blank">this</a> one LOL
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Those aren't cars. Those are go-carts ;D
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Here's some electric cars
<a href="http://www.stefanoparis.com/piaev/acpropulsion/eBox/2006.08.18eBox/eBoxFirstPeekMov.html" target="_blank">eBox Video with bad 80's music)</a> (Heh, it's kinda boxy)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHQ4cEr5Wao" target="_blank">Long video featuring the RAV4 EV, the EV1, and more</a>
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The Tesla is still cooler though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
If they can indeed recharge it and keep the car under 20,000 I'd be interested.
If I wanted raw speed I'd still stick with gasoline.
I'd beg to differ. Many a hybrid/electric owners in the Chicago land area would certainly disagree with you.