no, i disagree with gorge being the big winner on alien teams skulks are actually expendable cannonfodder that can delay marines for so long higher life forms can hit and run. fades rely on skulks more than ever now to take the attention away from them.
gorges gets sieged out and killed instantly. spit does next to nothing with armor 2 or 3. they cant strip armor, and rarely gets support from lerks anymore. all they are are fat healingstations that die on the sight of a marine, or god forbid jetpacker.
ive said a million times gorge bilebomb should strip armor.but meh.
>>out of the 50 odd games i've played since the new version got released roughly 11 were alien wins. >>thats a 32 slot server.
And there's the problem. The devs are aware of the problems with large servers, but THIS patch does not address that particular problem. Try playing on an 8v8 server instead of a 16 vs 16 server.
<!--quoteo(post=1612092:date=Mar 7 2007, 03:07 AM:name=Lofung)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lofung @ Mar 7 2007, 03:07 AM) [snapback]1612092[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i conclude that with or without 3.2, the ns community is dead by <i>that</i> post. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1612090:date=Mar 7 2007, 09:02 AM:name=the_x5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_x5 @ Mar 7 2007, 09:02 AM) [snapback]1612090[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It is good to have numbers. It might be interesting if we could scores recorded for several servers and records of how many wins/losses for the teams. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> allright,i will screenshot every game for 50 games you can draw the maths.hmmk ? because i ###### hate statistics (i failed it at school and im proud of it) anyway. i will screenshot the end results for 50 games. not the scoreboard but the aliens/marines win the game! (i will screenshot the scoreboard for my own purposes)
and for the record. the only 2 18slot servers i know about are so full that i cant get on them when i get home from work. besides i prefer g4b2s anytime over the other 2 18slot servers i have in my favorites.....
Pebbler, the hell are you talking about? That was a 44 minute game! It was AWESOME! We had those two hives for soooo long, and made like 6 attempts on the third as well as Marine Start. Each time we lost either of those objectives by a hair. How is that NOT balanced?! Just because we lost in the end?
The kill count doesnt matter and you should know that. A player who goes 0/10 but kills that pg or AA pulls his weight just as much as a player who goes 50/0, not only because of his direct actions but even from distracting the rines for his fellow aliens to smite them.
And again, I played on G4B2S for like 4 hours tonight, and had an absolute blast. And aliens won what, 2 pr 3/6 rounds? Actually more if you count the two quickies (<5 mins).
Erm. I think it's just possible it might be unbalanced when everyone on the aliens side has a negative score except for you stix who was most likely lerk/fade/skulk/fade, while everyone on marine team has a positive score, including the new guys.
I mean the guy closest to you is 23-67, I'm guessing the other people who were there as long just rage quit?
Better yet for combat do a few: after first 60 seconds, after first shotgun appears, after first fade or jetpacker appears, and end of game.
And for NS maps: do a few screen shots of the score board AND mini map at the same time for that number of games on multiple servers. If I have locational and structure data for NS maps that'll help even more.
If you have good data then that makes the difference. If you put all the 100-200 images or so as jpegs in a zip folder and send it to me I'll put it in excel and let the computer crunch some serious averages.
Giving my spiel again, (which I doubt Flayra will read but thats ok)
3.2 is balanced for 6v6-8v8
For a 24-30 player server its almost impossible for aliens to win. In fact out of about 30 games, I have seen aliens win twice. One of those wins involved a marine joke relocation.
3.1 in the 24-30 player matches, sulks were just road blocks on the way to higher life forms. Honestly lerks and fades were over powered. But the 2/3 over powered higher life forms kept the aliens in the game.
When Lerks and fades were nerfed and denied hive armor they were just as easy to kill as sulks. Now the pretty much run over the aliens.
When people said they wanted longer games, I think they meant longer more interesting games. Not games where it takes a long time to kill the team thats dead in the water.
Perhaps I am wrong, but I think people are nostaligic for the territorial control and gritty action of versions 1 and 2. I personally miss throwing my sulk body at a invading marine team, and as a marine pushing violently into a hive to greet it with a mass of explosions.
Basically move in an area, lock it down with turrets, move up lock taht down so forth. That was the game play I enjoyed. Felt more strategic than random ninja phase gates and eletrifying res nodes on top of them.
Right now turrets seem like a waste of time to most decent commanders, just res in the way of upgrades. Its much better to just drop a shotgun or 2.
My suggestions
Scale sulk bite damage on server size Scale turret damage for server size (to counter the sulks) put bile bomb earlier in the game (to improve team work and deal with the turrets) reduce gorge armor (this will help with gorge rushes as well) increase marine res flow increase cost and time on most upgrades by a small factor. eliminate the res bonus for alien kills.
At the very least on a base level make sulks strong, turrets stronger to compensate, and put bile in earlier.
Its really annoying being worthless 3 minutes into the game (armor 1) as a sulk. After motion tracking, its like your being hunted down like a dog. As a marine its almost always somewhat entertaining trying to fend off a rushing little monster, even if you die so why not balance the game that direction?
Point being there needs to be a further step beyond res ajustments to help out large servers and in general to make the game intense again.
<!--quoteo(post=1612107:date=Mar 7 2007, 08:37 AM:name=Priestly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Priestly @ Mar 7 2007, 08:37 AM) [snapback]1612107[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Erm. I think it's just possible it might be unbalanced when everyone on the aliens side has a negative score except for you stix who was most likely lerk/fade/skulk/fade, while everyone on marine team has a positive score, including the new guys.
I mean the guy closest to you is 23-67, I'm guessing the other people who were there as long just rage quit? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How many games have you played in NS where the aliens have a negative score and still win? The answer is MANY. Sure, sometimes you can totally dominate the rines and get 2:1 ratios for the aliens, but thats not a balanced game (and most of that score comes from the end-game mashing that rines get, when aliens take their time ending it).
Ive always seen a balanced game of NS being the marines with a higher ratio, a few good higher life forms with decent ratios and then the other aliens having a range of ratios going from over 1:1 down to the poor guys who get 3/30 (but who still love it).
Also keep in mind that we damn near won that game. That alone supports my argument here.
Oh, and look at the difference between the team's ratios. Thats a difference of 100:200. So a good few aliens (possible the 3 missing from the full team) had left with 1:2 ratios, which is better than half of the team and smoothes it out at least a bit.
And yes, i was skulk/lerk/fade/onos/fade. We also had a ton of other higher life forms, far far more than i went through since i didnt die as often.
OMG ALIENS WON?! Now doesnt that look like a screenshot from any old 3.1 game where aliens won? The usual top alien with good ratio, the many aliens and marines with varying ratios, and overall just a balanced outcome? Keep in mind too that it was a very quick finish, so the usual end-game rockage of marines didnt offer the usual boost in kills for the aliens.
the only time an alien victory comes up is when the marines have a crap commander or send the aliens a win. it was nearly this way in 3.1 and is definitely this way in 3.2
i don't care what the game is balanced for as long as it is balanced for the most amount of players and is balanced to bring in new players. right now neither of those factors is anywhere near being considered.
by most amount of players i mean effects the most people. obviously 15 8v8 servers are more important than 4 15v15 servers. especially since half those servers are extralevels combat. the problem is is that there are no 8v8 or 6v6 or 5v5 servers. the majority of full servers are above 10v10. they have a larger impact. the problem with the devs now is that they don't take that into consideration.
and also to the stixnstonz victory not only were the no good marines there was no good commander.
Lol, stix wern't you a donator like a month ago and for the last few months? But seriously if you're a donator normally you've been playing the game a while and can understand basic orders. I would say all the donators there have been around ns for years.
As for the marine side....ish I see asdf, a smurf, and moor, it looks like the rest are newbs and their comm ragequit sometime during the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1611882:date=Mar 6 2007, 10:42 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flayra @ Mar 6 2007, 10:42 PM) [snapback]1611882[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> As always, we ask that you not judge patches until you've played them for a few weeks. It always takes this amount of time for people to adapt their playing styles and even changes that seem horribly unbalanced at first often come around.
We've been doing this awhile, and with any significant change we hear "NS is dead", "gg", etc. So please be patient and withhold judgment for a bit! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
my comments are not specifically regarding 3.2 and you know that. frankly i don't really care what direction you take the NS franchise. what i'm tellling you is that not only are you not gaining a player base you are neglecting and ###### off the ones you have.
i mean it's fine and dandy to create a game dedicated to competitive play but when that community dies or if you want to actually grow a community large enough to make you money you need to change your approach.
i will warn you that right now the only (or majority of) people making posts are fanboys who love the game regardless of how crappy it really is. i would have posted more beforehand but what i've generally seen and experienced is a general disconcern for anything anyone has to say. the ideas and suggestions forums are ignored (and rightfully so i think because most ideas there are awful) and most balance suggestions are brought up by marine stackers or your playtesters who are largely ignorant of the actual community of players. the playtesters know nothing of either public or competitive ns and the changelogs show this.
i don't know what your goal is but if gaining players is anywhere near that goal, you are not doing that. there are simply too many server variants and too much frustration to be had playing kharraa.
<!--quoteo(post=1612111:date=Mar 7 2007, 03:55 AM:name=Canonfodder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Canonfodder @ Mar 7 2007, 03:55 AM) [snapback]1612111[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> For a 24-30 player server its almost impossible for aliens to win. In fact out of about 30 games, I have seen aliens win twice. One of those wins involved a marine joke relocation. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had the time to play about 15 games sor far. About half won by aliens and this on 20 or more players servers.
Cmon everytime a new version is released it is the same story. Have fun with the game, and don't say Fade is weak when all Fades in game have an impressive kill ratio score.
<!--quoteo(post=1612084:date=Mar 7 2007, 02:47 AM:name=ThePebbler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ThePebbler @ Mar 7 2007, 02:47 AM) [snapback]1612084[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I don't know what you guys are talking about 3.2 is completly balanced.
O WAI.... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you have a ping of two (2) and still cant kill marines that cant even get a 1:1 score?
If you seriously want to convince people, stop exaggerating things. If you just want to rant, go ahead.
<!--quoteo(post=1611892:date=Mar 6 2007, 11:22 PM:name=kiddo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kiddo @ Mar 6 2007, 11:22 PM) [snapback]1611892[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> people have been commenting about 3.2 beta1-2 throughout its testing. But once it went final no changes that people said went into play. Almost nothing about fade, lerk, hive armour, marines reduced jp costs..ect The point I'm trying to make is, you saying play it and comment then? I so agree with this, but you must of read the forums throughout the beta progress, and almost everyone who tried 3.2 beta said this would happen, and it wasn't a good idea what you are doing to the aliens. Meanwhile, you release final release with no changes, few small changes but nothing major people really were having a problem with. This is really stressful, I'm serious. I always been playing aliens, but this new patch simply forces to stack marines.
Many are saying when you stop focusing on balancing it on small servers and think on the large scale, things might change. While I understand its a lot harder to balance it for large servers, you must also realize if you want your game to be played by a lot of people, not just small servers or selected clans...something must be done. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have seen people complaining about the fade, the lerk, the jp and so on. On the other hand I've seen a lot of people expressing clearly that they like the changes very much. I think there was first some complaints about the blink and the lerk. After a few weeks only a few guys still complaining about them. The rest seemed to be fine with the game and discussed about the slight balance tweaks with the jp and ect. I can't recall seeing any posts on the big server balance. If there were any, they weren't really discussed about. Now, should the devs listen to the few guys ranting about the blink or be happy with the version most people seem to think as the best ns version for years?
That's how I see it.
Think you could post some links to the threads where the large server balance was discussed during the beta? If necessary, I can post some links that have positive feedback with the betas.
Edit: I was referring to the beta-time balance discussion in these forums. My bad for not expressing myself clear though.
Pretty much most of the threads created since 3.2 final was released on the guns servers under the natural selection sub-forum seem to be discussing it in one manner or another. Since guns is the largest server (32 slots)currently you might want to give that a shot to take a look at discussions, polls, etc.
<!--quoteo(post=1611927:date=Mar 6 2007, 07:48 PM:name=Ansjovis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ansjovis @ Mar 6 2007, 07:48 PM) [snapback]1611927[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> w t f are you on about, i still go 40-3 as fade on public, my clan still win most alien rounds and lose most marine rounds (althoug 3.2 is indeed a bit more balanced, especially for mid/lowskilled clans)
also, complaining about poor balance in 12vs12 is retarded, you might as well whine about siegemaps being unbalanced <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The funny thing is I went off to a server playing siege maps and they say 3.2 has ruined siege maps <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> so Devs have done a good thing then!
I m nearly enjoying 3.2 as much as 2.01d so good work!
<!--quoteo(post=1612154:date=Mar 7 2007, 07:16 AM:name=Shockwave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shockwave @ Mar 7 2007, 07:16 AM) [snapback]1612154[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <i>EDIT: I have no idea why I wasted electrons on this troll.</i>
- Shockwave <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I m not trolling! hope you re going regs as going to beat you down! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited March 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1612189:date=Mar 7 2007, 04:07 PM:name=Finawin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Finawin @ Mar 7 2007, 04:07 PM) [snapback]1612189[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The fanboyism here is astounding.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The sweeping generalisations to dismiss any opinion other than your own is equally astounding, I assure you.
If you think we don't play NS, (which I also assure you, we do) then prove it. Bring the statistics from unmodified servers. If the servers are all modified, ask yourself why, formulate a theory & prove it. Otherwise, what are you doing apart from trolling?
The irony of public players posting that the game is purely balanced for the competitive minority, on the same forum we've seen competitive players complaining about NS being 'dumbed down' and horrendously imbalanced at competitive level because of concessions for Publics is actually more comedic than anything.
The same answer to you that was given to them: Prove it.
Comments
skulks are actually
expendable cannonfodder that can delay marines for so long higher life forms can hit and run.
fades rely on skulks more than ever now to take the attention away from them.
gorges gets sieged out and killed instantly.
spit does next to nothing with armor 2 or 3.
they cant strip armor, and rarely gets support from lerks anymore.
all they are are fat healingstations that die on the sight of a marine, or god forbid jetpacker.
ive said a million times gorge bilebomb should strip armor.but meh.
>>thats a 32 slot server.
And there's the problem. The devs are aware of the problems with large servers, but THIS patch does not address that particular problem. Try playing on an 8v8 server instead of a 16 vs 16 server.
<img src="http://xs513.xs.to/xs513/07103/BALANCING.JPG" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
O WAI....
i conclude that with or without 3.2, the ns community is dead by <i>that</i> post.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which one?
It is good to have numbers. It might be interesting if we could scores recorded for several servers and records of how many wins/losses for the teams.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
allright,i will screenshot every game for 50 games
you can draw the maths.hmmk ?
because i ###### hate statistics (i failed it at school and im proud of it)
anyway. i will screenshot the end results for 50 games.
not the scoreboard but the aliens/marines win the game! (i will screenshot the scoreboard for my own purposes)
and for the record.
the only 2 18slot servers i know about are so full that i cant get on them when i get home from work.
besides i prefer g4b2s anytime over the other 2 18slot servers i have in my favorites.....
The kill count doesnt matter and you should know that. A player who goes 0/10 but kills that pg or AA pulls his weight just as much as a player who goes 50/0, not only because of his direct actions but even from distracting the rines for his fellow aliens to smite them.
And again, I played on G4B2S for like 4 hours tonight, and had an absolute blast. And aliens won what, 2 pr 3/6 rounds? Actually more if you count the two quickies (<5 mins).
I mean the guy closest to you is 23-67, I'm guessing the other people who were there as long just rage quit?
Better yet for combat do a few: after first 60 seconds, after first shotgun appears, after first fade or jetpacker appears, and end of game.
And for NS maps: do a few screen shots of the score board AND mini map at the same time for that number of games on multiple servers. If I have locational and structure data for NS maps that'll help even more.
If you have good data then that makes the difference. If you put all the 100-200 images or so as jpegs in a zip folder and send it to me I'll put it in excel and let the computer crunch some serious averages.
3.2 is balanced for 6v6-8v8
For a 24-30 player server its almost impossible for aliens to win. In fact out of about 30 games, I have seen aliens win twice. One of those wins involved a marine joke relocation.
3.1 in the 24-30 player matches, sulks were just road blocks on the way to higher life forms. Honestly lerks and fades were over powered. But the 2/3 over powered higher life forms kept the aliens in the game.
When Lerks and fades were nerfed and denied hive armor they were just as easy to kill as sulks. Now the pretty much run over the aliens.
When people said they wanted longer games, I think they meant longer more interesting games. Not games where it takes a long time to kill the team thats dead in the water.
Perhaps I am wrong, but I think people are nostaligic for the territorial control and gritty action of versions 1 and 2. I personally miss throwing my sulk body at a invading marine team, and as a marine pushing violently into a hive to greet it with a mass of explosions.
Basically move in an area, lock it down with turrets, move up lock taht down so forth. That was the game play I enjoyed. Felt more strategic than random ninja phase gates and eletrifying res nodes on top of them.
Right now turrets seem like a waste of time to most decent commanders, just res in the way of upgrades. Its much better to just drop a shotgun or 2.
My suggestions
Scale sulk bite damage on server size
Scale turret damage for server size (to counter the sulks)
put bile bomb earlier in the game (to improve team work and deal with the turrets)
reduce gorge armor (this will help with gorge rushes as well)
increase marine res flow
increase cost and time on most upgrades by a small factor.
eliminate the res bonus for alien kills.
At the very least on a base level make sulks strong, turrets stronger to compensate, and put bile in earlier.
Its really annoying being worthless 3 minutes into the game (armor 1) as a sulk. After motion tracking, its like your being hunted down like a dog. As a marine its almost always somewhat entertaining trying to fend off a rushing little monster, even if you die so why not balance the game that direction?
Point being there needs to be a further step beyond res ajustments to help out large servers and in general to make the game intense again.
Erm. I think it's just possible it might be unbalanced when everyone on the aliens side has a negative score except for you stix who was most likely lerk/fade/skulk/fade, while everyone on marine team has a positive score, including the new guys.
I mean the guy closest to you is 23-67, I'm guessing the other people who were there as long just rage quit?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How many games have you played in NS where the aliens have a negative score and still win? The answer is MANY. Sure, sometimes you can totally dominate the rines and get 2:1 ratios for the aliens, but thats not a balanced game (and most of that score comes from the end-game mashing that rines get, when aliens take their time ending it).
Ive always seen a balanced game of NS being the marines with a higher ratio, a few good higher life forms with decent ratios and then the other aliens having a range of ratios going from over 1:1 down to the poor guys who get 3/30 (but who still love it).
Also keep in mind that we damn near won that game. That alone supports my argument here.
Oh, and look at the difference between the team's ratios. Thats a difference of 100:200. So a good few aliens (possible the 3 missing from the full team) had left with 1:2 ratios, which is better than half of the team and smoothes it out at least a bit.
And yes, i was skulk/lerk/fade/onos/fade. We also had a ton of other higher life forms, far far more than i went through since i didnt die as often.
<img src="http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5787/nshera0013oc1.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
OMG ALIENS WON?! Now doesnt that look like a screenshot from any old 3.1 game where aliens won? The usual top alien with good ratio, the many aliens and marines with varying ratios, and overall just a balanced outcome? Keep in mind too that it was a very quick finish, so the usual end-game rockage of marines didnt offer the usual boost in kills for the aliens.
Icon....Icon...Icon Stack HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, yeah.
that happens alot on g4b2s.
remember that game yesterday?
where we went through 4 comms, all horrible and we STILL won?
now THATS overpowered...
NS_ayumi i believe it was.
the only time an alien victory comes up is when the marines have a crap commander or send the aliens a win. it was nearly this way in 3.1 and is definitely this way in 3.2
i don't care what the game is balanced for as long as it is balanced for the most amount of players and is balanced to bring in new players. right now neither of those factors is anywhere near being considered.
by most amount of players i mean effects the most people. obviously 15 8v8 servers are more important than 4 15v15 servers. especially since half those servers are extralevels combat. the problem is is that there are no 8v8 or 6v6 or 5v5 servers. the majority of full servers are above 10v10. they have a larger impact. the problem with the devs now is that they don't take that into consideration.
and also to the stixnstonz victory not only were the no good marines there was no good commander.
As for the marine side....ish I see asdf, a smurf, and moor, it looks like the rest are newbs and their comm ragequit sometime during the game.
As always, we ask that you not judge patches until you've played them for a few weeks. It always takes this amount of time for people to adapt their playing styles and even changes that seem horribly unbalanced at first often come around.
We've been doing this awhile, and with any significant change we hear "NS is dead", "gg", etc. So please be patient and withhold judgment for a bit!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
my comments are not specifically regarding 3.2 and you know that. frankly i don't really care what direction you take the NS franchise. what i'm tellling you is that not only are you not gaining a player base you are neglecting and ###### off the ones you have.
i mean it's fine and dandy to create a game dedicated to competitive play but when that community dies or if you want to actually grow a community large enough to make you money you need to change your approach.
i will warn you that right now the only (or majority of) people making posts are fanboys who love the game regardless of how crappy it really is. i would have posted more beforehand but what i've generally seen and experienced is a general disconcern for anything anyone has to say. the ideas and suggestions forums are ignored (and rightfully so i think because most ideas there are awful) and most balance suggestions are brought up by marine stackers or your playtesters who are largely ignorant of the actual community of players. the playtesters know nothing of either public or competitive ns and the changelogs show this.
i don't know what your goal is but if gaining players is anywhere near that goal, you are not doing that. there are simply too many server variants and too much frustration to be had playing kharraa.
For a 24-30 player server its almost impossible for aliens to win. In fact out of about 30 games, I have seen aliens win twice. One of those wins involved a marine joke relocation. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had the time to play about 15 games sor far. About half won by aliens and this on 20 or more players servers.
Cmon everytime a new version is released it is the same story. Have fun with the game, and don't say Fade is weak when all Fades in game have an impressive kill ratio score.
I don't know what you guys are talking about 3.2 is completly balanced.
O WAI....
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you have a ping of two (2) and still cant kill marines that cant even get a 1:1 score?
[the list]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you seriously want to convince people, stop exaggerating things. If you just want to rant, go ahead.
<!--quoteo(post=1611892:date=Mar 6 2007, 11:22 PM:name=kiddo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kiddo @ Mar 6 2007, 11:22 PM) [snapback]1611892[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
people have been commenting about 3.2 beta1-2 throughout its testing. But once it went final no changes that people said went into play. Almost nothing about fade, lerk, hive armour, marines reduced jp costs..ect The point I'm trying to make is, you saying play it and comment then? I so agree with this, but you must of read the forums throughout the beta progress, and almost everyone who tried 3.2 beta said this would happen, and it wasn't a good idea what you are doing to the aliens. Meanwhile, you release final release with no changes, few small changes but nothing major people really were having a problem with. This is really stressful, I'm serious. I always been playing aliens, but this new patch simply forces to stack marines.
Many are saying when you stop focusing on balancing it on small servers and think on the large scale, things might change. While I understand its a lot harder to balance it for large servers, you must also realize if you want your game to be played by a lot of people, not just small servers or selected clans...something must be done.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have seen people complaining about the fade, the lerk, the jp and so on. On the other hand I've seen a lot of people expressing clearly that they like the changes very much. I think there was first some complaints about the blink and the lerk. After a few weeks only a few guys still complaining about them. The rest seemed to be fine with the game and discussed about the slight balance tweaks with the jp and ect. I can't recall seeing any posts on the big server balance. If there were any, they weren't really discussed about. Now, should the devs listen to the few guys ranting about the blink or be happy with the version most people seem to think as the best ns version for years?
That's how I see it.
Think you could post some links to the threads where the large server balance was discussed during the beta? If necessary, I can post some links that have positive feedback with the betas.
Edit: I was referring to the beta-time balance discussion in these forums. My bad for not expressing myself clear though.
<a href="http://forums.guns4back2school.com/index.php?showforum=12" target="_blank">Guns Forums</a>
w t f are you on about, i still go 40-3 as fade on public, my clan still win most alien rounds and lose most marine rounds (althoug 3.2 is indeed a bit more balanced, especially for mid/lowskilled clans)
also, complaining about poor balance in 12vs12 is retarded, you might as well whine about siegemaps being unbalanced
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The funny thing is I went off to a server playing siege maps and they say 3.2 has ruined siege maps <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> so Devs have done a good thing then!
I m nearly enjoying 3.2 as much as 2.01d so good work!
- Shockwave
<i>EDIT: I have no idea why I wasted electrons on this troll.</i>
- Shockwave
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I m not trolling! hope you re going regs as going to beat you down! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
The sweeping generalisations to dismiss any opinion other than your own is equally astounding, I assure you.
If you think we don't play NS, (which I also assure you, we do) then prove it. Bring the statistics from unmodified servers. If the servers are all modified, ask yourself why, formulate a theory & prove it. Otherwise, what are you doing apart from trolling?
The irony of public players posting that the game is purely balanced for the competitive minority, on the same forum we've seen competitive players complaining about NS being 'dumbed down' and horrendously imbalanced at competitive level because of concessions for Publics is actually more comedic than anything.
The same answer to you that was given to them: Prove it.
- Shockwave