3.2 final = gg ns
commofdoom
Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58205Members
Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58205Members
<div class="IPBDescription">rethink ns 3.2 or let it die</div>--another patch full of marine upgrades and kharaa nerfs
--another patch seemingly intended to make playing the aliens a chore
kharaa are weak and expensive
marines are powerful and cheap
skulks are useless once mt or hmgs are out. no ambushing/3 bullet kills
onos can't go anywhere once jps are out and that counter now only costs 25 res per marine. (imbalance?)
lerks now sit in vents and pray that don't get grenaded
fades now pray the rambo marine doesn't have a shotgun
onos hope they don't meet an hmg
marines get better as the game goes on regardless of map control
kharaa get better only with map control and sacrificial teamwork
kharaa are expected to sit in one spot in wait for marines to come
marines go somewhere and do something
kharaa take strategy preplanning and good action
marines take being alive (look down hallway shoot)
the skill gap between playing the two races is too great
it takes at least 1 second to kill a marine
it takes at most 1 second to kill any alien
only certain spots are good for aliens to kill marines
every spot is good for marines to kill aliens
grenades are cheap, effective, decloak kharaa in a huge radius, damage them in a huge radius, and are almost always 1 hit kills
kharaa get 1 hit kills with focus and this is only as long as marines aren't upgraded (which is about 2 minutes). after that its hit them 5 times, die and hope someone else gets them. or wait around for lerks to come and take some of their armor away meanwhile letting the marines take the objective.
--another patch set to balance a gameplay that has an extremely small player base (ansl) who aren't even good at 6v6
--another patch totally ignorant of 95% of the community
--another patch seemingly intended to destroy the community (2.0 combat being another example)
too many types of servers
too little attention payed to ones that people go to (there are like 4 9v9 to 6v6 servers with people in them and maybe 60 ansl players)
absolutely no concern for picking up players and decreasing the learning curve
kharaa are never fun for noobs. they lose and die a stupid amount.
we liked 3.1 to a degree. massive gameplay changes were not necessary to show that you were alive.
--another patch seemingly intended to destroy large classic pub servers
res structure still not fixed nor do any devs seem to care
they seemed more concerned with balancing combat, a mode intended to teach people classic but instead teaches them nothing but how to stat###### on marines and do things as kharaa that they can't do in classic.
combat is detraining not training. not to mention most combat players hate standard combat anyway.
--another patch increasing the level of cooperation from aliens and making marines as easy as picking your butt.
marines get PGs, beacon, commander, free automatic upgrades (all of these regardless of personal performance)
kharaa get one guy desperately attempting to get his team to take any objective or drop a structure
no incentive to drop chambers (other than you'll die in 2 seconds as fade, lerk or onos anyway)
rfk punishes a punishment. not only do skulks die in half a second the marine team gets res too. yay!
at least this patch answers the question we have all had for a while (are the devs more concerned with making a teamplay oriented game or a twitch based game to appease the cs players)
the answer is half of ns is a teamplay game because kharaa need to use it to have a prayer. the other half is a skeet shooting game.
--another patch seemingly intended to make playing the aliens a chore
kharaa are weak and expensive
marines are powerful and cheap
skulks are useless once mt or hmgs are out. no ambushing/3 bullet kills
onos can't go anywhere once jps are out and that counter now only costs 25 res per marine. (imbalance?)
lerks now sit in vents and pray that don't get grenaded
fades now pray the rambo marine doesn't have a shotgun
onos hope they don't meet an hmg
marines get better as the game goes on regardless of map control
kharaa get better only with map control and sacrificial teamwork
kharaa are expected to sit in one spot in wait for marines to come
marines go somewhere and do something
kharaa take strategy preplanning and good action
marines take being alive (look down hallway shoot)
the skill gap between playing the two races is too great
it takes at least 1 second to kill a marine
it takes at most 1 second to kill any alien
only certain spots are good for aliens to kill marines
every spot is good for marines to kill aliens
grenades are cheap, effective, decloak kharaa in a huge radius, damage them in a huge radius, and are almost always 1 hit kills
kharaa get 1 hit kills with focus and this is only as long as marines aren't upgraded (which is about 2 minutes). after that its hit them 5 times, die and hope someone else gets them. or wait around for lerks to come and take some of their armor away meanwhile letting the marines take the objective.
--another patch set to balance a gameplay that has an extremely small player base (ansl) who aren't even good at 6v6
--another patch totally ignorant of 95% of the community
--another patch seemingly intended to destroy the community (2.0 combat being another example)
too many types of servers
too little attention payed to ones that people go to (there are like 4 9v9 to 6v6 servers with people in them and maybe 60 ansl players)
absolutely no concern for picking up players and decreasing the learning curve
kharaa are never fun for noobs. they lose and die a stupid amount.
we liked 3.1 to a degree. massive gameplay changes were not necessary to show that you were alive.
--another patch seemingly intended to destroy large classic pub servers
res structure still not fixed nor do any devs seem to care
they seemed more concerned with balancing combat, a mode intended to teach people classic but instead teaches them nothing but how to stat###### on marines and do things as kharaa that they can't do in classic.
combat is detraining not training. not to mention most combat players hate standard combat anyway.
--another patch increasing the level of cooperation from aliens and making marines as easy as picking your butt.
marines get PGs, beacon, commander, free automatic upgrades (all of these regardless of personal performance)
kharaa get one guy desperately attempting to get his team to take any objective or drop a structure
no incentive to drop chambers (other than you'll die in 2 seconds as fade, lerk or onos anyway)
rfk punishes a punishment. not only do skulks die in half a second the marine team gets res too. yay!
at least this patch answers the question we have all had for a while (are the devs more concerned with making a teamplay oriented game or a twitch based game to appease the cs players)
the answer is half of ns is a teamplay game because kharaa need to use it to have a prayer. the other half is a skeet shooting game.
Comments
But dude, grab you're flame-suit, i hear <i>them</i> coming! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
The Onos thing needs to be thought more wide than narrow. You have to remember Marines need an IP -> Armory -> Advanced Armory -> Arms Lab -> Obs -> Proto Lab -> Upgrade to JP -> then finally dropping the stuff. And I don't feel like counting numbers so I'll throw a random one out to a probable 300 res or more just to get up to jetpacks and all the other goodies like Armor/Weapon upgrades. Dropping RTs ect ect ect and a few more ect.
We've been doing this awhile, and with any significant change we hear "NS is dead", "gg", etc. So please be patient and withhold judgment for a bit!
out of the 50 odd games i've played since the new version got released roughly 11 were alien wins.
thats a 32 slot server.
surprisingly, skulks are the ones that rack up the most kills now.
i dunno,its as usual not the end of NS.
But for big servers it might be a severe blow.
As always, we ask that you not judge patches until you've played them for a few weeks. It always takes this amount of time for people to adapt their playing styles and even changes that seem horribly unbalanced at first often come around.
We've been doing this awhile, and with any significant change we hear "NS is dead", "gg", etc. So please be patient and withhold judgment for a bit!
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people have been commenting about 3.2 beta1-2 throughout its testing. But once it went final no changes that people said went into play. Almost nothing about fade, lerk, hive armour, marines reduced jp costs..ect The point I'm trying to make is, you saying play it and comment then? I so agree with this, but you must of read the forums throughout the beta progress, and almost everyone who tried 3.2 beta said this would happen, and it wasn't a good idea what you are doing to the aliens. Meanwhile, you release final release with no changes, few small changes but nothing major people really were having a problem with. This is really stressful, I'm serious. I always been playing aliens, but this new patch simply forces to stack marines.
Many are saying when you stop focusing on balancing it on small servers and think on the large scale, things might change. While I understand its a lot harder to balance it for large servers, you must also realize if you want your game to be played by a lot of people, not just small servers or selected clans...something must be done.
Lowering JP cost after damned near neutering alien's middle game was a bad design choice.
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hey, something I agree with
<!--quoteo(post=1611866:date=Mar 6 2007, 04:53 PM:name=commofdoom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(commofdoom @ Mar 6 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]1611866[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
--another patch full of marine upgrades and kharaa nerfs
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another? the last patch was full of alien upgrades
<!--quoteo(post=1611866:date=Mar 6 2007, 04:53 PM:name=commofdoom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(commofdoom @ Mar 6 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]1611866[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
--another patch seemingly intended to make playing the aliens a chore
kharaa are weak and expensive
marines are powerful and cheap
skulks are useless once mt or hmgs are out. no ambushing/3 bullet kills
onos can't go anywhere once jps are out and that counter now only costs 25 res per marine. (imbalance?)
lerks now sit in vents and pray that don't get grenaded
fades now pray the rambo marine doesn't have a shotgun
onos hope they don't meet an hmg
marines get better as the game goes on regardless of map control
kharaa get better only with map control and sacrificial teamwork
kharaa are expected to sit in one spot in wait for marines to come
marines go somewhere and do something
kharaa take strategy preplanning and good action
marines take being alive (look down hallway shoot)
the skill gap between playing the two races is too great
it takes at least 1 second to kill a marine
it takes at most 1 second to kill any alien
only certain spots are good for aliens to kill marines
every spot is good for marines to kill aliens
grenades are cheap, effective, decloak kharaa in a huge radius, damage them in a huge radius, and are almost always 1 hit kills
kharaa get 1 hit kills with focus and this is only as long as marines aren't upgraded (which is about 2 minutes). after that its hit them 5 times, die and hope someone else gets them. or wait around for lerks to come and take some of their armor away meanwhile letting the marines take the objective.
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how to cry, most of these have nothing to do with 3.2.
<!--quoteo(post=1611866:date=Mar 6 2007, 04:53 PM:name=commofdoom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(commofdoom @ Mar 6 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]1611866[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
--another patch set to balance a gameplay that has an extremely small player base (ansl) who aren't even good at 6v6
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lol?
<!--quoteo(post=1611866:date=Mar 6 2007, 04:53 PM:name=commofdoom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(commofdoom @ Mar 6 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]1611866[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
--another patch totally ignorant of 95% of the community
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guns must be 95%
also, complaining about poor balance in 12vs12 is retarded, you might as well whine about siegemaps being unbalanced
This new patch as kill the aliens out right. From the Fade murdering, DC non-healing, and the 2nd hive murder, and not to memtion the marines over abused cheap res gathering and equipment cost. Aliens are dead. Period!
On a side note, did the marines get anything taken or made worst for them, besides the ghost structures? Or did the devs just say make them gods!
--another post by 30 man public champion to whine about new patch when he has played it only four days
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Agreed.
I mean come on. Give it a few weeks. Then come back to us and "whine" about it. The game is good as it is now. Since there wasn't much feedback from 3.2 beta 2, it meant to the developers that the game is balanced as it is.
I'm calling this thread as flamebait. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
No it will be the same story, weeks from now, the aliens are murdered. They don't have a prayer now.
--another patch set to balance a gameplay that has an extremely small player base (ansl) who aren't even good at 6v6<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol?
Seriously now, I've won most of the games that I've played in both the beta and the final version. Interestingly enough, I've played more on aliens then marines. I've noticed that aliens is much more difficult now, which is a good thing considering they were easy street in 3.1.
Why don't you go gather some actual data and repost in an organized fashion rather than a huge list of jumbled-up and confusing bullets. Then you might not get flamed and actually get a discussion going.
Best version ever. Can it be better? Always. But right now, best. And this is ain't coming from no pub allstar nor an CAL/ANSL/Whatever player by any means.
If all of this was so terrible, WHY DIDN'T YOU COMPLAIN WHILE IT WAS STILL IN BETA INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR FINAL? You only had 3-4 freakin months.
/me runs outside and kicks a puppy.
Now I have only been playing in the big severs 20+ people plus. And it just seems to be a hick of alot harder for the aliens then the rines now. Now I don't know about the lower populated severs. That maybe balanced.
And don't get me wrong, aliens can still win some maps, note must CO and Classic Ns maps, but if you play any seige maps, or just slighty rine side maps, then the aliens are boned.
Didn't get much beta time in, do to school and real life needs.
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--fonto:Arial Black--><span style="font-family:Arial Black"><!--/fonto-->SOMEBODY CALL FOR AN EXTERMINATOR?<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
this just got released last friday guys, seriously. a lot of us (CPL-ns players) pub as much as we play competitively, also. trust me, we can't bare pubbing getting any worse, let's work together here.
The movement bind is very natural once you get used to it. While the normal weapon slot is admitably slow, +movement is much faster and seems only slightly slower.
Besides, I just got out of 20 classic games, and 14 out of them were alien wins.
Jetpacks also seem overpowered for their cost.
But at the end of the day, fades and lerks still do their jobs. It was a good business move for Flayra to dumb down A) fading B) lerking C) aiming at fades and lerks, because (given the environment of tfc halo and counterstrike) shooting alien lifeforms is comparatively very hard.
I'd still like a hud_fastswitch style command to give me back my old fade. It would add depth to the game, something 3.2 damaged with the hive armor change and the way the skill ceilings fell on fade and lerk.
Really though, you can't balance pubs without segregating good players from bad. This is why console games are so immensely popular, they partition by demographic by default. When you play smash bros you play with your kid brother or your neighbor. They probably have no idea how to wavedash and don't need it. They have a good bead on things.
As long as high caliber players are shoved in with noobs and pubstars, the problems people are (erroneously) blaming on balance will continue.
With every new patch, a post comes along like this. However, a few weeks later they no longer come up because people actually notice that the changes were for the better. If you spend more time reading the changelog then play the game, then chances are you will complain.
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Actually, with each new patch release, statistically less people play NS overall.
Sorry that a lot of people are not satisfied.
90% of the problems you mention weren't even changes made in 3.2.
don't even talk about >18 player servers . . . the entire game is nowhere near capable of balancing 16v16. Any change in balance you perceive between 3.1 and 3.2 is most likely the flaws of your server size manifesting themselves in new ways because the game mechanics have changed slightly. That or the conditioning of the players . . . . aliens had an easy time winning in 3.1, so a lot of pub aliens arent used to being dilligent about dropping hives and protecting rts, etc. Now that it matters they are getting slaugtered for their laziness(what ive witnessed in regular ~18 player pubs). Bottom line is that the root of all your problems is the 32 player limit. These maps were not designed for anywhere near that many players, hence why the marines seem to be everywhere at once. with 6-8 players on the marine team, even with a phase gate everywhere on the map its impossible for enough marines to be at every place that matters at the same time. with 16 marines, its completely possible (and easy). I could go on for hours about why 32 player servers totally break this game, but frankly I have better things to do.
simple solutoin would be to turn ff on, then the marines will actually have to think about where they shoot. a few ff bullets take a whole extra bite off most marines.
--another post by 30 man public champion to whine about new patch when he has played it only four days
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hmm post count matters as to how much i know about anything?
nearly all of my points are not 3.2 specific.
this is not my first ns forums name.
And why does it matter if you get xxxxx-0 scores on pubs still? The average pubber isn't getting your score. The average pubber has always sucked hard and it hasn't gotten better with 3.2.
edit: lol at the post below
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
Agreed.
I mean come on. Give it a few weeks. Then come back to us and "whine" about it. The game is good as it is now. Since there wasn't much feedback from 3.2 beta 2, it meant to the developers that the game is balanced as it is.
I'm calling this thread as flamebait. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
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I agree with you in turn. That's the only purpose of this thread. And in fact whenever I play on aliens with a team that communicates and responds well as aliens we USUALLY win. We even had a game with a two hive lockdown, but with great communication on our team, people actually goign gorge and droping non-OC chambers, and some marines deciding they could rambo with shotguns we ended up mauling them horrible.
Resources, teamwork, and communication win games; quiters, res ######s, and rambos loose games So don't tell me it's totally balanced towards marines now...
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" /> <-- The best asset to the alien team, seriously
GORGE POWER FTW!!!
I personally like 3.2, and honestly, NS never will be balanced. who the hell cares though, just play and have fun.
hmm post count matters as to how much i know about anything?
nearly all of my points are not 3.2 specific.
this is not my first ns forums name.
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and i care because? your post count could be one ###### million and you'd still be a g4b2s champ
w t f are you on about, i still go 40-3 as fade on public, my clan still win most alien rounds and lose most marine rounds (althoug 3.2 is indeed a bit more balanced, especially for mid/lowskilled clans)
also, complaining about poor balance in 12vs12 is retarded, you might as well whine about siegemaps being unbalanced
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Yes indeed. They didn't have 100:1 kill ratio anymore so they think Fade is weak now.... but a single good fade can own alone a group of marines.
Fade is fine.... the games i played (in big servers) were ok and aliens won often.