Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
edited March 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1610822:date=Mar 2 2007, 10:43 PM:name=Mantrid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mantrid @ Mar 2 2007, 10:43 PM) [snapback]1610822[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> No offense to you guys, but I don't really understand the point of primarily playing a Heavy in a cyberpunk game with a fairly heavy emphasis on Cyberspace. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To shoot people with the fricken' laser.
Heavies are very good for the last line of defense.
<!--quoteo(post=1610609:date=Mar 2 2007, 07:33 AM:name=Chocolate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Chocolate @ Mar 2 2007, 07:33 AM) [snapback]1610609[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Well, actually there is one.... I don't own HL2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />. I want to play this game tho <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HL2 is on sale right now for 22.45$. Also, from what I understand if you get HL2: Deathmatch(10$), you can run Dystopia.
<!--quoteo(post=1610809:date=Mar 2 2007, 10:04 PM:name=Private_Coleman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Private_Coleman @ Mar 2 2007, 10:04 PM) [snapback]1610809[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I use heavy + ion cannon + thermals, leg boosters.
If you wallstrafe with leg boosters you go about 3x faster. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
edited March 2007
Not without leg boosters. I don't know if it's a bug or a feature. Either way it's not a bad thing in my opinion in terms of it being an "exploit". Being against a wall severely limits your directional choices when someone comes round a corner and wants you dead. PS: You have to be holding down sprint for it to work, obviously.
Dystopia, well... what can I say. It really has potential, but it has a long way to go. I just hope that the developers release frequent updates, and are willing to make changes akin to the scale of 1.04 -> 3.2 NS. Right now, it's easy to learn (perhaps with the exception of some elements of cyberspace) and easy to master (if you can aim and count to three, then you're up there with the best). The reason Q3 and CS are so popular is because the are exactly the opposite - easy to learn, difficult to master.
Oh, and the map design really lets the game down. Too linear. Too many choke points. I need freedom!
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1611323:date=Mar 4 2007, 05:52 PM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JJJ1 @ Mar 4 2007, 05:52 PM) [snapback]1611323[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Dystopia, well... what can I say. It really has potential, but it has a long way to go. I just hope that the developers release frequent updates, and are willing to make changes akin to the scale of 1.04 -> 3.2 NS. Right now, it's easy to learn (perhaps with the exception of some elements of cyberspace) and easy to master (if you can aim and count to three, then you're up there with the best). The reason Q3 and CS are so popular is because the are exactly the opposite - easy to learn, difficult to master.
Oh, and the map design really lets the game down. Too linear. Too many choke points. I need freedom! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The learning curve does flatten out a lot, but I like the linear map design. It depends what you go for, but sometimes I really like games where the combat is very focused in a few areas. To me it feels like team fortress classic, but a lot less silly.
I also like the linear design, and I like chokepoints for the most part, but some things need reworking. The first objective of Silo is the devil himself.
You know on second thought, my biggest issue with the game (and I won't really be playing it on any frequent basis until this is changed) is the attack/defend gameplay. Attacking is fun. Defending isn't. It's just 20 minutes of stopping some people entering a room. If you could regain your objectives and win the game by some OTHER means than camping for 20 minutes then it'd be a lot more fun.
By the way, someone said that Dystopia and CS had nothing in common. That's not true. The Dystopia gameplay is basically the same as CS, except instead of working in several short rounds, it just has one long round with wave respawns. Dystopia's attack/defend gameplay is effectively the same as CS de_, though with Dystopia there is only one objective to attack or defend at any point in time, whereas in CS there is two. And that, to me, makes a huge difference. Maybe this comes down to map design. I don't know how much power mappers have over the game, but I'd like to see multiple objectives to defend at the same time, and multiple routes to each objective (avoiding choke points). And perhaps a means for both corps and punks to win by achieving their objectives, but I think given more objectives to defend, and more interesting means of defending them, that may not be necessary.
moultanoCreator of ns_shiva.Join Date: 2002-12-14Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1611391:date=Mar 4 2007, 09:16 PM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JJJ1 @ Mar 4 2007, 09:16 PM) [snapback]1611391[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You know on second thought, my biggest issue with the game (and I won't really be playing it on any frequent basis until this is changed) is the attack/defend gameplay. Attacking is fun. Defending isn't. It's just 20 minutes of stopping some people entering a room. If you could regain your objectives and win the game by some OTHER means than camping for 20 minutes then it'd be a lot more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally, I enjoy camping, but that may just be me. There are a few maps that allow you to regain objectives, but it is usually very hard. You have to sneak passed their frontlines to get to a deck that will let you.
Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
<!--quoteo(post=1611398:date=Mar 4 2007, 09:43 PM:name=moultano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moultano @ Mar 4 2007, 09:43 PM) [snapback]1611398[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Personally, I enjoy camping, but that may just be me. There are a few maps that allow you to regain objectives, but it is usually very hard. You have to sneak passed their frontlines to get to a deck that will let you. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's also IMO the most fun aspect :>
It's very satisfying for example, stopping the missile launch in Silo with only seconds left on the counter by shutting down base power.
Yeah, they've all got basic implants in their heads. Stuff that allows you to see the health, armour and energy of teammates, for example. And is apparently really vulnerable to EMP, despite the immense design shortcoming this is.
lolfighter, EVERYTHING is vulnerable to EMP in the future, despite how easy it is to shield them. Don't you remember the Matrix? Super advanced robots apparently don't include EMP shielding.
The purpose of the heavy is force application. If you put a heavy and another class in a small room, the heavy will almost allways win. A light, to be effective, must sneak up on the enemy. He is not too effective if the enemy sees him coming. Even if you know a heavy is coming, he has twice as much health as you and his weapons do lots of damage - you will be hard pressed to out-DPS him. A heavy with is presented with one single enemy after another will be able to tear through them one at a time with minimum effort.
The problem is that when faced with 2 or more people at the same time, the heavy suffers. On the other hand, a light tends to do much better in situations like this - especally if he has the upper hand.
My suggestion: use either leg boosters or sound supressor on your heavies. These implants cover your two most important flaws. You are noisy and slow. With leg boosters, you can outrun most people at close range and make good use of your close-range weapons. With sound supressor, you are not only masked from SWT, but this allows you to sneak up on people - somthing your normally noisy stompy heavy feet don't usually allow.
Overall, the key to being a good heavy is to be agressive, and be accurate.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
<!--quoteo(post=1611831:date=Mar 6 2007, 11:06 AM:name=Redford)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Redford @ Mar 6 2007, 11:06 AM) [snapback]1611831[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Overall, the key to being a good heavy is to be agressive, and be accurate. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I must expand this point. The key to almost all the class/weapon combinations in Dystopia is to be aggressive. For example, I often receive both the Soft Tissue AND Frag Mastah awards in the same round. How? I'm aggressive.
Grab a medium, grab an AR, grab leg boosters (and anything else). Run at a cluster of enemies. Jump over their heads while pummeling them with AR rounds. Switch to Katana when AR is empty. Slice the weakened opponents. Die from all of the rest of the enemy team behind you...
It's fun, and it works rather well.
++BONUS ROUND++
Toss a frag grenade at the enemy before you leg jump, this way you soften them up and may score a kill or two with the AR. Which is extremely useful as it alloys you to concentrate on the remaining enemies and/or avoid taking damage.
if the game had better maps it would improve significantly. Right now pretty much all of them are just lots of gray corridors and rooms to chokepoints that play out exactly the same every time, and the game is boring and stale after playing it for a bit.
It would be nice if there was a map with multiple objectives where you have to achieve one to move on, for example taking out some object, getting to a hacking point, or forcing your way through. This way there will be 3 ways to go, each depending on the strengths and weaknesses of teams. And then the next objectives could be split, so the game would be a lot more dynamic.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
About that Mr. Mojo.
The three new maps have considerably more detailed Cyberspace environments, with puzzles and maneuvers that are just simply not needed on the other cyberspace maps.
They really really got cyberspace right on the new maps, and I think it's only a matter of time before some of that magic gets given to singleplayer by map makers, AND cyberspace on all new maps should hopefully be just as complex and innovative as it is on the new maps.
Cyberspace is awesome, but I wish there were things like items you could pick up. Like, you jack in, and the punks have to navigate through cyberspace to grab a file from the corps and bring it back to their server.
And I always picture that the cyberspace in the game is just what corporate networks look like, and that the public cyberspace would look like Second Life sort of, with people building things, and I think it'd be cool if you would have to go from the blocky private networks to the rich internet and back again. Theres a lot of potential there, I think.
And I really want a map that focuses almost exclusively on Cyberspace.
<!--quoteo(post=1612094:date=Mar 7 2007, 12:12 AM:name=Mantrid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mantrid @ Mar 7 2007, 12:12 AM) [snapback]1612094[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> and that the public cyberspace would look like Second Life sort of, with <b><u>giant sentient schlongs</u></b> building things, <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
No offense to you guys, but I don't really understand the point of primarily playing a Heavy in a cyberpunk game with a fairly heavy emphasis on Cyberspace.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To shoot people with the fricken' laser.
Heavies are very good for the last line of defense.
PS: Heavies have the coolest taunts.
Well, actually there is one.... I don't own HL2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />. I want to play this game tho <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
HL2 is on sale right now for 22.45$. Also, from what I understand if you get HL2: Deathmatch(10$), you can run Dystopia.
I use heavy + ion cannon + thermals, leg boosters.
If you wallstrafe with leg boosters you go about 3x faster. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wallstrafing still works in source?
PS: You have to be holding down sprint for it to work, obviously.
Oh, and the map design really lets the game down. Too linear. Too many choke points. I need freedom!
Dystopia, well... what can I say. It really has potential, but it has a long way to go. I just hope that the developers release frequent updates, and are willing to make changes akin to the scale of 1.04 -> 3.2 NS. Right now, it's easy to learn (perhaps with the exception of some elements of cyberspace) and easy to master (if you can aim and count to three, then you're up there with the best). The reason Q3 and CS are so popular is because the are exactly the opposite - easy to learn, difficult to master.
Oh, and the map design really lets the game down. Too linear. Too many choke points. I need freedom!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The learning curve does flatten out a lot, but I like the linear map design. It depends what you go for, but sometimes I really like games where the combat is very focused in a few areas. To me it feels like team fortress classic, but a lot less silly.
By the way, someone said that Dystopia and CS had nothing in common. That's not true. The Dystopia gameplay is basically the same as CS, except instead of working in several short rounds, it just has one long round with wave respawns. Dystopia's attack/defend gameplay is effectively the same as CS de_, though with Dystopia there is only one objective to attack or defend at any point in time, whereas in CS there is two. And that, to me, makes a huge difference. Maybe this comes down to map design. I don't know how much power mappers have over the game, but I'd like to see multiple objectives to defend at the same time, and multiple routes to each objective (avoiding choke points). And perhaps a means for both corps and punks to win by achieving their objectives, but I think given more objectives to defend, and more interesting means of defending them, that may not be necessary.
You know on second thought, my biggest issue with the game (and I won't really be playing it on any frequent basis until this is changed) is the attack/defend gameplay. Attacking is fun. Defending isn't. It's just 20 minutes of stopping some people entering a room. If you could regain your objectives and win the game by some OTHER means than camping for 20 minutes then it'd be a lot more fun.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally, I enjoy camping, but that may just be me. There are a few maps that allow you to regain objectives, but it is usually very hard. You have to sneak passed their frontlines to get to a deck that will let you.
Personally, I enjoy camping, but that may just be me. There are a few maps that allow you to regain objectives, but it is usually very hard. You have to sneak passed their frontlines to get to a deck that will let you.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's also IMO the most fun aspect :>
It's very satisfying for example, stopping the missile launch in Silo with only seconds left on the counter by shutting down base power.
"10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 *Pzzzzzw ... WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP!*"
:D
get heavy damage as a heavy and your screen gets all ###### up!
It's one of the most awesome mods I have ever played Thank you Dystopia team!
lol
get heavy damage as a heavy and your screen gets all ###### up!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?
You probably got hit by an EMP grenade.
good ol'Burt Gummer and his concussion grenades sound more likely, but...
forget the above I need a new hdd for this game/mod so, well haven't played it. I'll have a look sometime I think...
Turrets have EMP shielding.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are turrets unaffected by EMP yet everyone else is? I have only one word of explanation.
Nanites.
I swear to god. Nanites.
The problem is that when faced with 2 or more people at the same time, the heavy suffers. On the other hand, a light tends to do much better in situations like this - especally if he has the upper hand.
My suggestion: use either leg boosters or sound supressor on your heavies. These implants cover your two most important flaws. You are noisy and slow. With leg boosters, you can outrun most people at close range and make good use of your close-range weapons. With sound supressor, you are not only masked from SWT, but this allows you to sneak up on people - somthing your normally noisy stompy heavy feet don't usually allow.
Overall, the key to being a good heavy is to be agressive, and be accurate.
Overall, the key to being a good heavy is to be agressive, and be accurate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I must expand this point. The key to almost all the class/weapon combinations in Dystopia is to be aggressive. For example, I often receive both the Soft Tissue AND Frag Mastah awards in the same round. How? I'm aggressive.
Grab a medium, grab an AR, grab leg boosters (and anything else). Run at a cluster of enemies. Jump over their heads while pummeling them with AR rounds. Switch to Katana when AR is empty. Slice the weakened opponents. Die from all of the rest of the enemy team behind you...
It's fun, and it works rather well.
++BONUS ROUND++
Toss a frag grenade at the enemy before you leg jump, this way you soften them up and may score a kill or two with the AR. Which is extremely useful as it alloys you to concentrate on the remaining enemies and/or avoid taking damage.
It would be nice if there was a map with multiple objectives where you have to achieve one to move on, for example taking out some object, getting to a hacking point, or forcing your way through. This way there will be 3 ways to go, each depending on the strengths and weaknesses of teams. And then the next objectives could be split, so the game would be a lot more dynamic.
The three new maps have considerably more detailed Cyberspace environments, with puzzles and maneuvers that are just simply not needed on the other cyberspace maps.
They really really got cyberspace right on the new maps, and I think it's only a matter of time before some of that magic gets given to singleplayer by map makers, AND cyberspace on all new maps should hopefully be just as complex and innovative as it is on the new maps.
And I always picture that the cyberspace in the game is just what corporate networks look like, and that the public cyberspace would look like Second Life sort of, with people building things, and I think it'd be cool if you would have to go from the blocky private networks to the rich internet and back again. Theres a lot of potential there, I think.
And I really want a map that focuses almost exclusively on Cyberspace.
and that the public cyberspace would look like Second Life sort of, with <b><u>giant sentient schlongs</u></b> building things,
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fixed.