<!--quoteo(post=1599884:date=Jan 18 2007, 01:02 PM:name=Merkaba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merkaba @ Jan 18 2007, 01:02 PM) [snapback]1599884[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> How about the long story? Are there particular problem spots? Just <i>what exactly</i> do you mean? I get the impression that competetive players feel the map is beyond saving so don't even bother explaining <i>why</i> and <i>what</i> the problems are. This, frankly, makes me livid. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As a fade you're whipping around incredibly difficult to control. If there are pit's of death on a map that basically means fades are completely and totally inviable in that area because there is a MASSIVE chance that they will accidentally fall into the POD. Being that fades are generally the determining factor in competitive play, if the map can accidentally kill them then it ruins the whole game.
The pits are part of what makes this map so cool, don't remove them. The fact is that even if you were to somehow reach a balance point that allowed the pits killing fades to not skew the map balance it still wouldn't be generic competitive play, and for that reason alone it would be unlikely to catch on. Even to reach that point we'd need to do ALOT of playtesting and rethinking. I haven't even had a change to have a match on machina yet.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1599862:date=Jan 18 2007, 03:56 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Jan 18 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]1599862[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Long story short, the pit's of death make fading a luck game rather then a skill game. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is more skill than luck involved in avoiding a pit of death. Assuming luck is evenly distributed, your assumption would manifest with the best and worst fades dying in there to equal degrees. I'm not disputing that pits of death are shunned by competitive ns, but your analysis doesn't make sense to me.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited January 2007
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's cruel and unusual punishment to kill the RT right as you drop it in Circumn. I worked damn hard to get there as a gorge, dropping structures in the pit itself, and finally building a tower big enough. I even fended off an onos trying to charge me off of my tower into the pit; but he knows who won that battle.
I demand that Circumn be a legit RT that no one can build.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was that onos, and the marines have to weld into that wallway to gain access to the node. In previous versions of the map it was an open node, so any skulk that went gorge or marine with a JP could get in there and build a virtually inaccessible node.
Now that we are on that note, I died twice in that same game as an onos (once was my own fault in the aforementioned example), and the other was as a fade holding my breath trying to cross the circumm pit. I would rather see something like a electrical pit that hurts you slowly but doesn't fall into a hole and kill your lifeform.
I've seen JPs and other fades die there as well in previous games trying to get to arrival and departure. Long story short, I would make it so that you die slowly down there (or kill the player in some other fashion), instead of falling into a pit that's very, very hard to blink out of. Although, it could just force fades to be more careful, as I recall a previous version already had a "slow death" pit beneath circumm.
Although I do like the giant crater south pit, even if it means I have to be more careful with my fade. Although I have fallen into it a number of times, I'm able to get back on the platform metabolizing and blink at the same time without much difficulty.
Hmm I might be able to make it easier to blink out of the Circumn pit without changing the way it works. I didn't like the slow-burn in that previous machina because, as a ground bound marine falling into it, it was incredibly boring waiting to die. I suppose a ladder could be introduced to let yourself out, but if I can just make it easier to not get caught on objects when blinking across the gap there then I hope that's enough.
Currently, all the white lights on the ceiling in there are unclipped, ie, they can block the players movement. This is fixed in the next version. I will also clip the area underneath the marine-side entrance, so there is no way for a fade to get caught and end up using its blink to no avail.
What I was hoping to find out about the blinking and crater pit was if there was a certain point where it is easy to die accidently - I had in mind covering up some of the gaps at the side of the walkway with a grating instead of it all being open. Would that be a use? So, ACSII art to the rescue, here is the current design:
....| |..| |.......| |..| |.. , where dots are the rail and |'s define the circular...things
And instead:
E..| |..| |EE..EE| |..| |.. , where the Es are grates that cover the whole span from floor to ceiling.
I have fixed the problems with the airlock door at Snakes Head - now it pushes players out of the way of the closing door; this should cut down the amount of deaths there dramatically.
Question: Regarding the vent in the marine start (the one that goes from one end of the room to the other in the floor) - should it stay or should it go? Is it useful? Or pointless?
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited January 2007
<!--quoteo(post=1600032:date=Jan 18 2007, 09:08 PM:name=Merkaba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merkaba @ Jan 18 2007, 09:08 PM) [snapback]1600032[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I have fixed the problems with the airlock door at Snakes Head - now it pushes players out of the way of the closing door; this should cut down the amount of deaths there dramatically. Question: Regarding the vent in the marine start (the one that goes from one end of the room to the other in the floor) - should it stay or should it go? Is it useful? Or pointless? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the marine start vent personally. It's useful for getting from one side to the other of marines start with minimal fire flying at you, that and its good to gas from until they get nades. Also hiding out there as skulk until everybody leaves base.
Righto. I am just looking for things to remove y'see - I have reached the maximum allowed number of faces in the map and I still have the readyroom to do :[ *sigh* So I am juggling faces around, adding, removing, while trying to clear up enough for the readyroom. It's a pain in the ######...I've reached the stage where I just can't add any more now, and am limited to editing what is already there. Thankfully it happened pretty much at the same time that I declared all the visuals in the map 99.999% complete.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited January 2007
I don't know about that. I think the readyroom should really look beautiful as an intro to playing the map. I've always imagined a really unique looking RR for that map, if its going to be technically possible. Something that people would say 'wow' when they see it.
This doesn't necessarily mean that it needs to be HUGE, but even if you have to make it relatively small, really make it stand out in some fashion to set it apart from all the other NS maps to make it one of a kind like ns_machina currently does from all the stock ns maps.
If push comes to shove:
1) Remove the vent in marine start 2) Remove the small box platform with a ladder leading up to it in The Pit. 3) Remove the small purple room in imine falls (I've never used it personally, since I've never found northern shell to be a part of the map that sees a lot of action. 4) Remove imine falls entirely except for the exit that leads to turning point (?) 5) Remove a few of the pillars in marine start that aren't needed. 6) Simplify circumm 7) Remove some of the extra brushwork in that long drop under the 'rotating lift' by marine start, although it does look pretty. 8) Just remove angel's grave hive and call it good <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />. But seriously, I always though that deep cut in the ground looked awkward, and I didn't use imine falls when in that hive very much at all.
Hope that gives you some ideas. I'd hate to see the huge pit get decapitated, but if it could be edited and still retain that feeling it currently has, that may be an option. Don't get rid of the 'landing pad' at the bottom of the gorge slide, that's way to fun. Only if you added a weldable door that closed.
As the Crater plays a great role in the map athmosphere, make the readyroom a large deep crater, which has one bridge above that. The both ends of the bridge would lead to a drop into the pit, respecting Frontiersman start and Kharaa start. In the middle of the pit, there would be small portals of some kind to lead into spectator mode and random team.
Thanks Garo, but the readyroom has been decided apon for a long time - it's just taken me a long time to getting around to making it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I am posting for a reason though. The door in Arrival & Departure is proving to be somewhat of a nuisance, and with some recent changes the map just won't compile unless I delete it altogether (to free up faces).
So, my question is, does anyone mind if I delete this door? It's the big heavy one with 2 bars that slide across it. It serves as a somewhat useful gate to protect the node in A&D, but ultimately it isn't necessary. I could keep the door in if I were to simplify it somewhat, but I would rather just remove it altogether.
I need a good reason to keep it in, or else it is gone.
I like that door. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> But as you said, it isn't really necessary.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited January 2007
Agreed, the door is nice but isn't completely necessary. As long as its just not a big square hole in that part (maybe add some nice trim) it should look fine.
You're really maxed out on faces? Could you give us the specs of the map? Nexus has just under 8k brushes, and i hit the max faces a bunch of times... when it was never actually max faces. It always covered a leak (that decided to not show up as a leak), or too_many_dynamic_lights whatever, or missing texture errors, etc. Whats your clips/leafs etc at?
Just played 2p on Tac. Looking damn good man. But, 12 nodes is way too many, especially with so many around rine start. My suggestion would be to actually lose the Arrival node; there are still 4 very close to MS. Most maps only have 1 easy node for marines, then 1-2 harder ones, then the rest are tough. So 2-3 nodes for rines. You have 2 easy and 2 harder. Just too much, especially considering the 12 count already.
1.the pit and the ms are way SO BIG that it causes lag sometimes when there are a lot of structures and players in it.. 2.i like the creative idea of making a big rubbish bin(!?) in the middle of the map. however, the big hole in the crater is very annoying for the most of the time as it is very alien biased. skulks and lerk lame around it easily. although sometimes people falling down accidentally may be fun and can make others laugh. so i suggest fixing it a bit
<!--quoteo(post=1596522:date=Jan 9 2007, 01:42 AM:name=Garo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Garo @ Jan 9 2007, 01:42 AM) [snapback]1596522[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I think ns_machina is about to become one of the very best ns maps out there. I know that some people dont like the layout, but I love the overall complexity of the map. Many levels, small places and big halls, literally thousands of good skulk ambush positions, strange vents which ends nowhere and many places where you can fall into your death, if you are not carefull. Me so like <3 <3
machina is the extract opposite to maps like veil and eclipse, which are basically just straight halls without any structural details.
Keep up the good work =)
- Garo <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen to that Garo! I agree with you. Some slight texture edits. Even some of the harshest critics like some of the whinny ******s from several servers have nothing bad to say about it. (they NEVER have anything positive to say so believe me this is good)
<!--quoteo(post=1608843:date=Feb 23 2007, 04:12 PM:name=Lofung)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lofung @ Feb 23 2007, 04:12 PM) [snapback]1608843[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> 1.the pit and the ms are way SO BIG that it causes lag sometimes when there are a lot of structures and players in it.. 2.i like the creative idea of making a big rubbish bin(!?) in the middle of the map. however, the big hole in the crater is very annoying for the most of the time as it is very alien biased. skulks and lerk lame around it easily. although sometimes people falling down accidentally may be fun and can make others laugh. so i suggest fixing it a bit <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For one, Lofung, sorry m8 but no. You usually play marines and reading though your post history you always thing aliens are overpowered. Tell me one thing you think aliens are weak in. And lag in the pit and MS? Upgrade your system dude, wow... How old is the HL engine now? If it's your broadband ISP unfortunately that can't be helped and I'm sorry if that's the case. But why don't you visit Best Buy and get some memory and/or a new graphics card. You might just solve your problem.
Secondly, crater reminds me of the part in The Empire Stikes Back where Luke is confronting Vader in the Cloud City repulsorlift core. Which is why I tend to do the "No Luke. <i>I</i> am your father!" in that area. (hey that's a good easter egg idea!) I think outside of some tiny texture adjustments and maybe some fog and/or new custom textures this is the best NS map I've seen in a long time.
And third, I would like to know if you have plans to port this map to source for NS2. I think you should. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Thanks for the kind words x5 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
If I were to port this to Source, it wouldn't be a straight port but probably a spiritual succesor. Machina is just one possible ship of many that belong to the mysterious colony, and is a simple mining ship to boot. A Source map would most likely be the Next Step, whatever that means...
One idea I had some time ago was a similar idea, but instead of being an asteroid mining ship....it would be a <i>planet</i> mining ship. A giant <b>tower</b> of a spaceship the size of a city that lands, digs itself into the ground, sucks the local area of resources and then blasts it's way back into space. Kinda like the Machina ship's big daddy; whilst the machina ship is a tick, this would be a leech.
You would get some cool visuals - not only would you have the same organic style on the inside (with more specular maps and a more 'fleshy' feeling to the environment), but you would also be able to look out of a viewport and see the planets surface stretch away miles beneath you.
I imagine a great number of these things leeching onto the side of a planet at all its possible resource points, sucking it dry, and then moving off together as a swarm to dump their quarry and find the next planet to render inert.
And what would be the benefit of a large cylinderical ship like this? Why, a huge freakin-###### circular pit in its centre of course!
Kinda like <a href="http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nsmachinaabyss02ll5.jpg" target="_blank">this early machina shot</a>, but a lot better.
That was going to be the original Crater, but for some reason I decided it wasn't huge enough <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> (I think the circular corridor bugged me)
ChocolateThe Team MascotJoin Date: 2006-10-31Member: 58123Members
edited March 2007
This map is SOOO beautiful that the dev team should pay you for such a beautiful map! (not a bad buisness, i might add <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />).
I havent really read all of the posts, but just to make sure, I personally think the minimap is a little cramped. Its hard to decipher where the vent entrances are or how to get from point A to point B. Ive always had problems with complex maps, because I've got a tiny brain <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />. The map itself is a little cramped and a little too open for my likings, but its not much of a problem. I'll eventually learn the locations of the map, just not any time soon <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
Besides that, LOVE THE MAP! I love the Ready Room too, its beautiful! I'll never be able to match up to this maps beautifulness ever.... oh well <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> .
Keep up the good work!
BTW: When I first started playing this map in Beta 1, I thought "Yeah right, this can't be the HL 1 engine", "Am I playing the right game?!?!?! The map is Beautiful!!!" and "Wow....". I've never had a map in the old HL engine ever make me say "Wow...."
First, I belong to a french mapping community called Mapping-Area. There are tons of really good maps there, even if I saw some incredible maps here and there; your map is simply UNREAL ! I never saw a map like this. The mapping skills are, in one word, fantastics, and I know what I say trust me ^^ The 3D Skybox is purely awesome, I ever saw this once, but it was just a sketch, and I'm glad to see this in one NS maps, it's sooo sexy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I had some troubles though :
1) In the Descent Central Node, maybe you'll make the red opaque walls func_illusionary with a clip brush on, it'll help for parasiting / spit / fire on the enemies from the corridor or the node itself.
2) Maybe a railway will be good for the elevator in Relocation, because I find ugly that the elevator goes in the wall ^^
3) The map is, imo, too big and open for the aliens in early minutes of the game. Like a person said, some additional vents will be cool.
4) It'd be so cool if the bottom part of Circumn (with eletric beams) will be reachable for the skulk to ambush the Marines
5) Oops <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <a href="http://www.hiboox.com/image.php?img=9a1cefe1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.hiboox.com/vignettes/1007/9a1cefe1.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a> (click on the image for full size) It's on the right of the MS, you have clipped the monitors's brush <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
6) Perhaps some additionnal infestation in Tau-Ceti and Angel's Grave Hives will enhance the alien feeling and enhance the look of the map.
7) The water in Imine Falls looks really weird :/
That's it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Incredible map, keep up the good job, you really impressed me this time, one of the best HL maps EVER !
I don't know what all the Hubub is about with this map... I find the whole thing disturbing. And being able to siege from the little tiny ledge down in that large pit on the southern hive? WTH...
Comments
How about the long story? Are there particular problem spots? Just <i>what exactly</i> do you mean? I get the impression that competetive players feel the map is beyond saving so don't even bother explaining <i>why</i> and <i>what</i> the problems are. This, frankly, makes me livid.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a fade you're whipping around incredibly difficult to control. If there are pit's of death on a map that basically means fades are completely and totally inviable in that area because there is a MASSIVE chance that they will accidentally fall into the POD. Being that fades are generally the determining factor in competitive play, if the map can accidentally kill them then it ruins the whole game.
The pits are part of what makes this map so cool, don't remove them. The fact is that even if you were to somehow reach a balance point that allowed the pits killing fades to not skew the map balance it still wouldn't be generic competitive play, and for that reason alone it would be unlikely to catch on. Even to reach that point we'd need to do ALOT of playtesting and rethinking. I haven't even had a change to have a match on machina yet.
Long story short, the pit's of death make fading a luck game rather then a skill game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is more skill than luck involved in avoiding a pit of death. Assuming luck is evenly distributed, your assumption would manifest with the best and worst fades dying in there to equal degrees. I'm not disputing that pits of death are shunned by competitive ns, but your analysis doesn't make sense to me.
I demand that Circumn be a legit RT that no one can build.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was that onos, and the marines have to weld into that wallway to gain access to the node. In previous versions of the map it was an open node, so any skulk that went gorge or marine with a JP could get in there and build a virtually inaccessible node.
Now that we are on that note, I died twice in that same game as an onos (once was my own fault in the aforementioned example), and the other was as a fade holding my breath trying to cross the circumm pit. I would rather see something like a electrical pit that hurts you slowly but doesn't fall into a hole and kill your lifeform.
I've seen JPs and other fades die there as well in previous games trying to get to arrival and departure. Long story short, I would make it so that you die slowly down there (or kill the player in some other fashion), instead of falling into a pit that's very, very hard to blink out of. Although, it could just force fades to be more careful, as I recall a previous version already had a "slow death" pit beneath circumm.
Although I do like the giant crater south pit, even if it means I have to be more careful with my fade. Although I have fallen into it a number of times, I'm able to get back on the platform metabolizing and blink at the same time without much difficulty.
Currently, all the white lights on the ceiling in there are unclipped, ie, they can block the players movement. This is fixed in the next version. I will also clip the area underneath the marine-side entrance, so there is no way for a fade to get caught and end up using its blink to no avail.
What I was hoping to find out about the blinking and crater pit was if there was a certain point where it is easy to die accidently - I had in mind covering up some of the gaps at the side of the walkway with a grating instead of it all being open. Would that be a use?
So, ACSII art to the rescue, here is the current design:
....| |..| |.......| |..| |.. , where dots are the rail and |'s define the circular...things
And instead:
E..| |..| |EE..EE| |..| |.. , where the Es are grates that cover the whole span from floor to ceiling.
Question: Regarding the vent in the marine start (the one that goes from one end of the room to the other in the floor) - should it stay or should it go? Is it useful? Or pointless?
I have fixed the problems with the airlock door at Snakes Head - now it pushes players out of the way of the closing door; this should cut down the amount of deaths there dramatically.
Question: Regarding the vent in the marine start (the one that goes from one end of the room to the other in the floor) - should it stay or should it go? Is it useful? Or pointless?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the marine start vent personally. It's useful for getting from one side to the other of marines start with minimal fire flying at you, that and its good to gas from until they get nades. Also hiding out there as skulk until everybody leaves base.
You only spend a few seconds in the ready room, you spend hours in the map itself.
This doesn't necessarily mean that it needs to be HUGE, but even if you have to make it relatively small, really make it stand out in some fashion to set it apart from all the other NS maps to make it one of a kind like ns_machina currently does from all the stock ns maps.
If push comes to shove:
1) Remove the vent in marine start
2) Remove the small box platform with a ladder leading up to it in The Pit.
3) Remove the small purple room in imine falls (I've never used it personally, since I've never found northern shell to be a part of the map that sees a lot of action.
4) Remove imine falls entirely except for the exit that leads to turning point (?)
5) Remove a few of the pillars in marine start that aren't needed.
6) Simplify circumm
7) Remove some of the extra brushwork in that long drop under the 'rotating lift' by marine start, although it does look pretty.
8) Just remove angel's grave hive and call it good <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />. But seriously, I always though that deep cut in the ground looked awkward, and I didn't use imine falls when in that hive very much at all.
Hope that gives you some ideas. I'd hate to see the huge pit get decapitated, but if it could be edited and still retain that feeling it currently has, that may be an option. Don't get rid of the 'landing pad' at the bottom of the gorge slide, that's way to fun. Only if you added a weldable door that closed.
As the Crater plays a great role in the map athmosphere, make the readyroom a large deep crater, which has one bridge above that. The both ends of the bridge would lead to a drop into the pit, respecting Frontiersman start and Kharaa start. In the middle of the pit, there would be small portals of some kind to lead into spectator mode and random team.
Ascii art:
..|M|..
..|..|..
..|..|..
..|..|..
R|..|S
..|..|..
..|..|..
..|..|..
..|A|..
A as in aliens, M as in marines, R as in random, S as in spectate, '|..|' means the bridge above the pit.
EDIT: s/the pit/crater/g (should learn names better)
- Garo
I am posting for a reason though. The door in Arrival & Departure is proving to be somewhat of a nuisance, and with some recent changes the map just won't compile unless I delete it altogether (to free up faces).
So, my question is, does anyone mind if I delete this door? It's the big heavy one with 2 bars that slide across it. It serves as a somewhat useful gate to protect the node in A&D, but ultimately it isn't necessary. I could keep the door in if I were to simplify it somewhat, but I would rather just remove it altogether.
I need a good reason to keep it in, or else it is gone.
But as you said, it isn't really necessary.
Just played 2p on Tac. Looking damn good man. But, 12 nodes is way too many, especially with so many around rine start. My suggestion would be to actually lose the Arrival node; there are still 4 very close to MS. Most maps only have 1 easy node for marines, then 1-2 harder ones, then the rest are tough. So 2-3 nodes for rines. You have 2 easy and 2 harder. Just too much, especially considering the 12 count already.
good work
2.i like the creative idea of making a big rubbish bin(!?) in the middle of the map. however, the big hole in the crater is very annoying for the most of the time as it is very alien biased. skulks and lerk lame around it easily. although sometimes people falling down accidentally may be fun and can make others laugh. so i suggest fixing it a bit
I think ns_machina is about to become one of the very best ns maps out there. I know that some people dont like the layout, but I love the overall complexity of the map. Many levels, small places and big halls, literally thousands of good skulk ambush positions, strange vents which ends nowhere and many places where you can fall into your death, if you are not carefull. Me so like <3 <3
machina is the extract opposite to maps like veil and eclipse, which are basically just straight halls without any structural details.
Keep up the good work =)
- Garo
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Amen to that Garo! I agree with you. Some slight texture edits. Even some of the harshest critics like some of the whinny ******s from several servers have nothing bad to say about it. (they NEVER have anything positive to say so believe me this is good)
<!--quoteo(post=1608843:date=Feb 23 2007, 04:12 PM:name=Lofung)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lofung @ Feb 23 2007, 04:12 PM) [snapback]1608843[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
1.the pit and the ms are way SO BIG that it causes lag sometimes when there are a lot of structures and players in it..
2.i like the creative idea of making a big rubbish bin(!?) in the middle of the map. however, the big hole in the crater is very annoying for the most of the time as it is very alien biased. skulks and lerk lame around it easily. although sometimes people falling down accidentally may be fun and can make others laugh. so i suggest fixing it a bit
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For one, Lofung, sorry m8 but no. You usually play marines and reading though your post history you always thing aliens are overpowered. Tell me one thing you think aliens are weak in. And lag in the pit and MS? Upgrade your system dude, wow... How old is the HL engine now? If it's your broadband ISP unfortunately that can't be helped and I'm sorry if that's the case. But why don't you visit Best Buy and get some memory and/or a new graphics card. You might just solve your problem.
Secondly, crater reminds me of the part in The Empire Stikes Back where Luke is confronting Vader in the Cloud City repulsorlift core. Which is why I tend to do the "No Luke. <i>I</i> am your father!" in that area. (hey that's a good easter egg idea!) I think outside of some tiny texture adjustments and maybe some fog and/or new custom textures this is the best NS map I've seen in a long time.
And third, I would like to know if you have plans to port this map to source for NS2. I think you should. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
If I were to port this to Source, it wouldn't be a straight port but probably a spiritual succesor. Machina is just one possible ship of many that belong to the mysterious colony, and is a simple mining ship to boot. A Source map would most likely be the Next Step, whatever that means...
One idea I had some time ago was a similar idea, but instead of being an asteroid mining ship....it would be a <i>planet</i> mining ship. A giant <b>tower</b> of a spaceship the size of a city that lands, digs itself into the ground, sucks the local area of resources and then blasts it's way back into space. Kinda like the Machina ship's big daddy; whilst the machina ship is a tick, this would be a leech.
You would get some cool visuals - not only would you have the same organic style on the inside (with more specular maps and a more 'fleshy' feeling to the environment), but you would also be able to look out of a viewport and see the planets surface stretch away miles beneath you.
I imagine a great number of these things leeching onto the side of a planet at all its possible resource points, sucking it dry, and then moving off together as a swarm to dump their quarry and find the next planet to render inert.
And what would be the benefit of a large cylinderical ship like this? Why, a huge freakin-###### circular pit in its centre of course!
Kinda like <a href="http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nsmachinaabyss02ll5.jpg" target="_blank">this early machina shot</a>, but a lot better.
That was going to be the original Crater, but for some reason I decided it wasn't huge enough <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> (I think the circular corridor bugged me)
I havent really read all of the posts, but just to make sure, I personally think the minimap is a little cramped. Its hard to decipher where the vent entrances are or how to get from point A to point B. Ive always had problems with complex maps, because I've got a tiny brain <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />. The map itself is a little cramped and a little too open for my likings, but its not much of a problem. I'll eventually learn the locations of the map, just not any time soon <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
Besides that, LOVE THE MAP! I love the Ready Room too, its beautiful! I'll never be able to match up to this maps beautifulness ever.... oh well <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> .
Keep up the good work!
BTW: When I first started playing this map in Beta 1, I thought "Yeah right, this can't be the HL 1 engine", "Am I playing the right game?!?!?! The map is Beautiful!!!" and "Wow....". I've never had a map in the old HL engine ever make me say "Wow...."
First, I belong to a french mapping community called Mapping-Area. There are tons of really good maps there, even if I saw some incredible maps here and there; your map is simply UNREAL ! I never saw a map like this. The mapping skills are, in one word, fantastics, and I know what I say trust me ^^
The 3D Skybox is purely awesome, I ever saw this once, but it was just a sketch, and I'm glad to see this in one NS maps, it's sooo sexy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I had some troubles though :
1) In the Descent Central Node, maybe you'll make the red opaque walls func_illusionary with a clip brush on, it'll help for parasiting / spit / fire on the enemies from the corridor or the node itself.
2) Maybe a railway will be good for the elevator in Relocation, because I find ugly that the elevator goes in the wall ^^
3) The map is, imo, too big and open for the aliens in early minutes of the game. Like a person said, some additional vents will be cool.
4) It'd be so cool if the bottom part of Circumn (with eletric beams) will be reachable for the skulk to ambush the Marines
5) Oops <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<a href="http://www.hiboox.com/image.php?img=9a1cefe1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.hiboox.com/vignettes/1007/9a1cefe1.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
(click on the image for full size)
It's on the right of the MS, you have clipped the monitors's brush <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
6) Perhaps some additionnal infestation in Tau-Ceti and Angel's Grave Hives will enhance the alien feeling and enhance the look of the map.
7) The water in Imine Falls looks really weird :/
That's it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Incredible map, keep up the good job, you really impressed me this time, one of the best HL maps EVER !