The 2nd Commander

WorthyRival · February 2007

<div class="IPBDescription">Support Commander</div>A Commanders attention gets stretched thin looking after both marines in the field and the TSA base of operations & research facilities especially in large games.

The Thought occurred to me why not have 2 commanders the 2nd commander being a support commander. In a majority of games I play the squad inferface is very poorly used, I believe its because the commander has so much on their plate, they rarely have time to worry about separate squads and rogue marines on top of building, researching defending and organzing assaults.

The 1st Commander would have access to a complete commander build and research menu.
The 2nd Commander would have access to a Limited Build menu ( Med Packs / Ammo / Cat Packs / Turret Factory & Turrets / Phase Gates / Res Towers/ Beacon.

The 1st Commander could be managing a small squad of marines building spawn and outposts / researching upgrades / Defending outposts / Coordinating assaults with the second commander.
2nd Commander could be managing assault squads or lone marines in the field dropping med pack and ammo / Establishing front lines and jumping out of command chair to protect spawn.

Learning to command would be easier too. New players could start as the 2nd commander edging into command interface rather than being pushed into the deep end.

Now there would be some problems like resource management and communications

I think assign a standard 5% of all res collected to the 2nd commander. with a sliding percentage scale accessed only by the 1st Commander.

The Idea could be polished thats why Im posting this to get some ideas and work arounds for errors and problems I havent forseen.

Buzzou · February 2007

no sir, i dont like it.

its bad enough trying to balance the teams when 1 marine is in a commchair, if the marines had 2 people stuck in chairs, they would get owned. they need as many ppl as possible out in the field of combat, not stuck in the base.

being comm is the most important role the marines have - its not meant to be easy. but if you know what your doing, commanding isnt that hard a thing to do. if you want to learn, try on a small server with a small team that is easier to manage, before trying in a large server.

introducing a 2nd comm wouldnt make it any easier, just more confusing.

i do think they need to simplify the commander interface as mentioned in the link below, this would make it easier for new ppl to learn.

<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=70016737313226600&showtopic=97986&view=findpost&p=1567632" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....t&p=1567632</a>

Pikminwars · February 2007

The squad interface isn't used because pubs lack the teamwork being in a squad requires.

SpaceJesus · February 2007

it doesn't work in scrims either because it isnt flexible enough

Llama_Killer · February 2007

You'd have bickering more than normal, 1 comm would star recycling things to piss off the other etc... Besides the fact that small marine teams need as many people as possible to start off with.

Zerohourrct · February 2007

This has been suggested a bunch of times. I myself support a "sub-commander" which can do the menial work, aka dropping kits, and also watch the commander to learn what he does and how he plays; most learning is NS is from watching but because there is only 1 commander, you can't watch and learn to be a commander. This means you usually either go with the pro commander or get stuck with a team that can't command. A sub-commander chair could make bigger matches less stressful on the main commander and also allow a person to learn to command without having to screw his team over.

N_3 · February 2007

you could have the sub commanders only able to operate over a small area, ie only within their sub-cc radius. Perhaps also allowing them to control some nearby map specific objects as well that the normal comm can't - would make for useful marine outposting / self-sustenance. That being said, its probably better to have just one comm - if they're good or decent they should be able to handle the game by them selves just fine.

Sheepe · February 2007

Personally, this is an excellent idea, except that it takes another marine out of combat. This should probably be a server option then.

-Sheepe

Buzzou · February 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(N_3 @ Feb 11 2007, 05:59 PM) [snapback]1605554[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
you could have the sub commanders only able to operate over a small area, ie only within their sub-cc radius </div>
this is the only way this idea could possibly work i think. if you have locked down a hive or double res node area, and you have ordered a marine or 2 to guard the area, then one of those marines could hop in from time to time to drop meds, more turrets etc. the sub comm could only drop stuff within the normal radius of the CC, or only within the area of the hive/dbl res.
that way he wouldnt be annoying the comm asking him to drop stuff, or have to wait for the comm to log out so he can jump in the chair etc.

to make this work however, the sub comm would have to severely restricted in what he can/cant do. any res the sub comm spends, would have to be allocated to his sub-chair by the actual commander. if he has no res allocated, then he cant spend any. he should only be able to drop basic structures (not arms lab or proto), and the only upgrades he could research would be sieges, and electrify.

and most importantly, only the main commander can sell structures.

this could make the game easier, but i still believe were better off having a single comm.

WorthyRival · February 2007

Perhaps a default setting if there are more than 8 players on marines a sub commander seat opens. ( with a server option to change ratio )

Or a special abilty only for the sub commanders use to counter the loss of a man in the field.
eg: A Sub commander could phase directly from his seat to a selected phase gate if needed.
eg: Turrets fire 5% more effective.

Personally I Don't think you would notice a man missing on a 24-32 player server.

Bacillus · February 2007

It would require quite radical gameplay changes. At the moment 5% of the res would be like a medpack/minute. If the value is increased, the proper comm lacks the rest and would be limited to even less tactics and decisions than in public games at the moment.

There would be even less proper comms in the public because there would be a second commander messing up their game.

I'd rather see more comm demos, a possibility to spec comms and maybe an ingame tutorial to get people learn the comming. As for the micromanagement, it only improves with practice. I'm fine with comm being slow as long as he doesn't drop a tf or totally ignore marine ammo/med request.

humblerumble · February 2007

I like the way the commanding works as is and I don't think there is much to improve on (other than bells and whistles and a little functionality). I don't mean to be pessimistic about your idea just for the sake of it when I say this; it's just that commanding is so rewarding when done correctly.

I'm sure that when you were a newbie, there was always one guy floating in and out of the server and when he came in and hopped into your team's chair, you knew you were going to win. He was just that good at commanding. Because of his reputation, morale was instantly boosted and all of the Rambos and ninjas would immediately shape up and work as a team and you guys would dominate. It could be described as a "good game".

I am also sure you know that when you lead your Marines to a good victory in a tough game, the feeling of accomplishment and lifted spirits is quite mutual on the commanding side of things.

I think the reason why people love good commanders is because comming is just so damn hard at first. Trying to command when you are a newbie is a huge undertaking, and even when you are experienced, you still can have your hands full at times. People love good commanders because they know how hard it can be to command well.

I believe that splitting the commanding role in a way such as this would take away the awe-factor and the excitement of good commanding. Besides, if a newbie really wants to learn to command, he can try comming small games at first and gradually move onto bigger ones. Perhaps they could even make it so that a player is able to sit the match out and spectate the commander to see his screen and what he is doing. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/siege.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::siege::" border="0" alt="siege.gif" />

If you would please allow me to borrow and pervert your idea of sub-commanding for a bit, I have a small, miniscule idea, somewhat contrary to what I just said above (but not really).

What do you guys think of a Sergeant type of classification? They would obviously be in between the commander and regular Marine in terms of chain of command, and the commander would choose who would be the Sergeant in each squad. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />

They would not possess enough power to change any direct orders (waypoints, build instructions, etc) because that is the commander's job. I am thinking they would be more responsible of movement to and from destinations, setting up cover once they get there, and engaging aliens. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" />

I think that simply giving the squad's Sergeant a 2D sprite that the Marines could see through walls (like waypoints) would actually be enough. It would allow the Marines to see where their Sergeant is at all times and make it easier to follow him.

Let's face it, if you give a few inexperienced Marines a waypoint to go take a node somewhere, they are going to get lost, take the long way around, and maybe stop at Starbucks on the way there. I think a simple sprite would be enough to tell the Marines "FOLLOW THIS GUY, HE KNOWS WHERE HE'S GOING." I think that if you give him too many tools at his disposal, it just gets too complicated and he ends up being counterproductive.

Of course, as you could probably tell, I haven't fully thought of the Sergeant's capabilities. Any suggestions?

Sheepe · February 2007

Yeah, thats all very true.

So yes, we deffinately need comm specing...

-Sheepe

The 2nd Commander

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